Because there was only one tv performance listed in what they posted and I had already stated clearly that the only things not subject to debate really were TV performances. And jesus christ, if people are talking about her vocals, why aren't I allowed to give my honest opinion? It certainly doesn't mean I enjoy saying negative things about her, but I'm not going to lie and say her vocals are actually good either. It seems that people only like to pick out the negative things that people post and then harp on them; never mind the fact that I just posted something positive about her PV or her lyrics. Or the fact that if other artists that I like, like Namie or Arashi do something that I don't like I talk about it too.

^Maybe if u wasn't quoting people who like her vocal to say that they are wrong, that her vocals ARE bad and that u can't understand what is that person parameter to find a vocal performance good... well, maybe people would be a little less defensive x_x

^ But I never said anyone was wrong. Isn't it obvious that what anyone posts here is opinion? And if I have no barometer for what someone considers is a bad performance, how can I actually have a discussion with them about it?

How am I supposed to know if you mean tv performances or not there? The only tv performance that you actually specified was FNS. And even if you meant tv performances for those too, than that is completely fine because didn't I already say all her tv performances are live? All I said was that concert dvds can't be used. So what's the problem?

It's not so much that you can't state your opinion, just stop stating it as fact. I know we're all guilty of that sometimes but it just comes off as condescending and "matter of fact" from you. I get that you don't think her vocals have been great since 2006, but you made me feel like I was wrong for thinking they were great. And I got defensive, I apologize for that. Can we PLEASE agree to disagree and drop this? :)

^I can't imagine any way of dicussiing vocal quality without being only a matter of taste without going technical... and most people here don't know anything about vocal technique...

^ Right, exactly. I thought it should be understood that even if I think her vocals are getting bad, its still obviously just my opinion.

But honestly though, I HAD already agreed to disagree but then it got started up again. :) But yes, thanks for your apology. It just really gets to me sometimes that (especially with this subject) people can't seem to have a rational discussion about it without jumping on everyone else.

^ Seems there is a breakdown in communication. You quoted me as saying: "So how can you possibly point to those as examples of how good her vocals are?" And then responded with tv performances. BUT my quote was referring to DVD performances. So you kind of confused me because I never said her tv performances were questionable.

:shake

Okay, truce.

Yeah.. Nemesis pointed out what I meant.

You're allowed to have your opinion but I'm just going to say it's annoying when usually your posts consist of a negative paragraph relating to ayu + 1-2 positive sentences that are mostly backhanded compliments about ayu + insert ":)" face here.

^ I've never meant anything as a backhanded compliment. It's either a praise or a flat out criticism. There's nothing backhanded at all in saying I love You We're's lyrics or that You We're's PV is my favorite part of the single so far. etc etc. Since when did posting something negative with positive become a bad thing and not a "balanced opinion"? If it seems something is more negative, that is only because the discussion topics on this board usually lean towards subjects that can be perceived as negative. Obviously people aren't going to be able to go on for paragraphs about how pretty Ayu's dress is or how great her hair looks etc etc., because those aren't deep discussion topics.

If something is 100% good, obviously I'm only going to have good things to say about it - for example, her tv performance of Pride in FNS as mentioned in this thread - that is one of Ayu's most perfect moments ever and I have absolutely no criticisms of it AT ALL. But if it is not like that, then it is remiss to say something is perfect if I feel that it is not. And honestly, there are only a few people on this board that are critical of Ayu (in a non-hater way) so that makes those peoples posts stand out more than they probably should.

get used to it , there are some fans that even thought they are always posting nagative things about her, just cant seem to move on and accept they no longer like Ayumi Hamasaki. not saying you cant dislike some things she do or some of her songs or lives. like me, i hate her homo dancers and happy songs like sunset and glitter, but i love most of her ballads and rockish songs and still enjoy some of her lives . the moment i stop liking anything of her will be the day i stop listening to her music and try finding something new ^^

Hope that day never comes :)

When did I say that? That doesn't even sound like a backhanded compliment to me. Honestly, I don't really want to say what I was originally going to say in reply to this because someones feelings could get hurt so I'm just going to say I disagree with most of your posts and thoughts and leave it at that for now.

^ Because you made it sound like anything positive I say is a backhanded compliment, which is not the case.

So she sang you were + rule?!? That's an interesting combination!!! lol I hope she sings BALLAD once!! Or maybe she's saving it for CDL like GREEN? and we'll get an epic performace!! lol

Chonchan will appear at 『BEST ARTIST 2009』 on December 15th :luv2

http://i47.tinypic.com/2emj6yq.jpg
(click the pic for larger version)

Website: http://www.ntv.co.jp/best-artist/

^ Yipeee! :D Can't wait to see!

Yay! I had just checked the Best Artist site not long ago, but nothing was updated. Looking forward to Ayu, Arashi, Speed, and Kuwata Keisuke the most. We'll see who else gets added too.