Originally Posted by Katsuyuki012 (Post 3262442)

First of all, she is currently 40 and, as she said, she started considering retirement in her late ...20s. I am sorry but do I need to repeat? 20s! If it was the shock of becoming popular or something like that I would understand but no - in the interview, this motive keeps coming back in the span of her whole career. The only reason why she pursued was the dream she decided on, which was to give a huge final concert which happened to be her 20th anniversary Dome tour. After its huge success, she kept thinking of retirement but decided to make things even more interesting by...retiring during the 25th anniversary, release an album a year till then and keep touring. As much as I enjoyed Namie’s music and concerts this attitude is simply outrageous to me. She has made the image of a martyr. What kind of person, who supposedly likes their job keeps thinking about retirement for the whole length of their professional life?

Originally Posted by Katsuyuki012 (Post 3262442)

In other words, she just wanted to please the crowds and create things so they sell well - the end of the story. The only positive thing she says is that she has learned to enjoy singing and dancing at the same time, and the moment she started enjoying her work was….learning that it should give her joy….She says she found it but I will not believe it, since she kept thinking about retirement. I have no words.
Then, there is a reason why she stopped going to tv and that was: “I am not a very intelligent person and have nothing interesting to say”. She said that saying something interesting became a burden to her. I didn’t know that in shows like Music Station or others you are quizzed from the history, or they check your IQ. This is the same reason why she resigned from MCs.

Originally Posted by Katsuyuki012 (Post 3262442)

This interview was very revealing. What I saw was Namie being a mainstream follower who is much more performer and the producer of music that would sell, very little passion though, rather then an artist.
I try to never do that in public discussions but I will mention Ayu. We may have varied opinions about her music, but she has never, even in the darkest hour said that she was tired.

Originally Posted by Katsuyuki012 (Post 3262442)

Not only that, she is totally opposite to Namie in this department. Her hearing has been getting worse with time but each time she speaks out, she keeps emphasising how she will not stop singing because it’s her life and those are not words to be taken lightly. She has learned acrobatics, her shows are always spectacular and even if repetitive at times - they are big, bright, theatrical and even if you don’t like Ayu, find her music boring - she knows how to put on a show.

Originally Posted by Katsuyuki012 (Post 3262442)

She is very involved in the creation process, writing all her lyrics makes her superior to Namie already. Speaking of lyrics, Namie’s English is horrible and without checking the words of songs on the internet - I wouldn’t be able to tell a lot of it. With Ayu, it’s not the case anymore that much.

Originally Posted by Katsuyuki012 (Post 3262442)

And there is no excuse, if you do something and earn really good money - do it well, learn those few lines at least, by heart. How, after being a fan of such passionate artist like Ayu, I am supposed to just ignore what Namie said, how she made herself a victim of her success?

Originally Posted by Katsuyuki012 (Post 3262442)

I don’t even believe that she actually decides about jackets and all. The moment she opened her mouth I realized how much Ayu deserves to be called an artist and Namie simply a performer while I used to think of Ayu as a performer with passion. It’s understandable she kept herself quiet, because if she talked people would see how very uninteresting and to some point fake she was. Namie was produced, during all her career, even when she was her boss all she did was produce goods in the forms of music. She just wanted to sell and feel the joy of fans during concerts who had no clue that she put very little heart in her works.

Originally Posted by Katsuyuki012 (Post 3262442)

Because of her feeling like a martyr, lack of passion and retiring finally, I am very much not interested in what happens to her professionally. I am glad she is retiring, she was very overrated in my opinion and did not deserve the publicity she got.

This is it tbh.. I hope no one`s gonna start bashing me like crazy although it wouldn`t be surprising because that`s what simply tends to happen when one expresses their negative opinion about somebody or something and especially with a topic like Namie who`s barely critisized, it is something that can expected...

Originally Posted by RealLight (Post 3263030)

Oh Lawd...

Originally Posted by orbitalaspect (Post 3263029)

Hon, Ayu writes her lyrics on an iPhone. Like, she's literally dropped a quarter of her discography in the toilet over the last 15 years. Ayu isn't like some Van Gogh toiling away in a dark corner to get the perfect pluck of a harp at 2 minutes, 32 seconds into her 200th ballad. Ayu just works until it's as close to what she wants as she can reasonably get it.

Originally Posted by orbitalaspect (Post 3263029)

-"GILS JUST WANNA HAVE FAHN...

Originally Posted by orbitalaspect (Post 3263029)

I feel like you haven't watched a single one of Namie's PVs in the last 10 years. And I'm not coming down on you, I'm just pointing out that the production quality on literally ANYTHING Namie has done since 2009 has far surpassed Ayu. Namie's invested a lot of time in getting singles and albums and tours and promos "just right".

Originally Posted by orbitalaspect (Post 3263029)

No, Ayu did something worse: She tried to abandon Japan. You can say you're tired, you can say you need a break, but Ayu absolutely treated her status as J-Pop icon like a ball and a chain. She retreated to the US, to France, and to the UK. For extended periods of time, she would fly to Japan only for business. She even moved with Manny and her most recent ex to live outside of Japan (iirc!).

Originally Posted by orbitalaspect (Post 3263029)

No one calls Celine Dion a talentless hack because Mariah Carey writes all her own lyrics. And no one calls Diane Warren a talentless hack because Mariah Carey performs all her own songs.

Originally Posted by orbitalaspect (Post 3263029)

I just want to put this into perspective from Ayu's standpoint as well. Ayu caused a major scandal by marrying Manny in late 2010 and then divorcing him less than a year later. Her sales were drastically affected by the bad press. Love songs sold almost 300k. Party Queen barely reached 140k. And when PQ came out, news outlets were printing stories left and right about PQ's #2 debut meant Ayu was finally irrelevant. And there SCATHING commentaries about this all over the media.

Originally Posted by orbitalaspect (Post 3263029)

Ayu and Utada debuted in 1998, became massive stars in 1999/2000, and were in all respects considered icons of J-Pop by 2002. Because Ayu and Utada were not walking around with murdered parents, surprise pregnancies, and divorce, they quickly overshadowed Namie in every respect.

Originally Posted by orbitalaspect (Post 3263029)

In 1997, Namie became pregnant with her son and released a pretty shocking announcement that she was both marrying a labelmate and that she was with child. In 1998, Namie's mother was brutally murdered with an axe by her mother's ex-husband's brother, who then committed suicide. In 2002, Namie became divorced. Now, I just want to clarify this because for several consecutive years, Namie was by all context "embroiled in scandal" to the Japanese.

Originally Posted by lfe. (Post 3263091)

Guys if you don't like Katsuyuki's post just treat it Namie style and just ignore. Do you know how much hate the announcement of Finally got on Jpop sites and reddit for the tracklist and only having 6ish new songs? Looking back now those number of haters feel like nothing since atleast 2 million people didn't seem to care.

Originally Posted by Cahz- (Post 3263132)

So, people who weren't satisfied with Finally tracklist = haters
Beautiful logic.

Originally Posted by NintendoHTF1242 (Post 3263040)

That was a great read, but how come for the Halsey shade? I want this tea.

Originally Posted by KarenPang (Post 3263046)

Last Fri's MUSIC STATION which featured Namie

https://www.facebook.com/jpopoodoo/v...7065793611723/

Also for the record , Namie's 2nd surge in popularity started to climb back around the time when Queen Of Hip Pop was released in 2005

PLAY was released in 2007

Originally Posted by Katsuyuki012 (Post 3263053)

As if it matters what she writes her lyrics on. Also, Namie just works to the same point, it's not like she's overworking hours in a dark room to be perfect. It's not even something I expect from both.

Originally Posted by Katsuyuki012 (Post 3263053)

Real Me, Feel The Love, Lelio etc, plus, I said that with Ayu it's not that much anymore, not non-existent

Originally Posted by Katsuyuki012 (Post 3263053)

I was talking about tours though.

Originally Posted by Katsuyuki012 (Post 3263053)

God, so because she's a japanese star she can't move away? Well, it's stupid to hold such thing against her. I wouldn't do that with any other artist either. You can live where you want to live. Ayu still came here and even if "only" for business, she did all her duties so it's not like she just left her fans. But if you see this as an argument - fine. She did get bashed for it, so it's not like she "got away with it".

Originally Posted by Katsuyuki012 (Post 3263053)

It's not about Namie not writing but about the fact Namie should at least learn her lyrics by heart and so on (e.g. also better proununciation for English songs, whatever you say, Namie's proununciation is worse in most songs).

Originally Posted by Katsuyuki012 (Post 3263053)

Yea, and Ayu still didn't victimize herself or (said that she) got tired.

Originally Posted by Katsuyuki012 (Post 3263053)

Nowadays roles with Ayu and Namie are the opposite.

I don't know what you're trying to tell me there though, that this made it harder for Namie because she only lives for success or what? Ayu, still loves performing, puts out music and tours so yea.

Originally Posted by Katsuyuki012 (Post 3263053)

Besides the obviously very sad thing with the murdering, all these things are/were under her responsibilty. And it's not like she couldn't expect media's reactions.

Well, those are my, more unshared thoughts. So yea, eh, nice day or something like that. Still, I think the topic is pretty, "done" and there are better things to talk about like upcoming concerts etc..

Originally Posted by orbitalaspect (Post 3263147)

I don't want to go into the full mode on this here because I just did so in the 56th Utada thread. I'll just say I have extremely strong opinions on Halsey, and none of them are good.



Totally true. But it wasn't really until PLAY that she started really topping Oricon again. I remember the headlines when PLAY came out. People were like, "IS SHE BACK?! ...SHE'S BACK!!!"

OK. Now, back to Katsuyuki!



It was just an example. I think people tend to put Ayu on a pedestal, and have for her entire career, because they think she has unique depth as an "artist". Ayu is an amazing songwriter, but my point is not to inflate her talent as something you wouldn't find in another artist... like, say, KOKIA or RURUTIA, or in Utada, or maybe in Ai Otsuka (who not only writes her lyrics but also produces all of her music). Every artist has their "edge", and I'm just arguing that you should bring Ayu back down to Earth.



And I can point out GO ROUND, ONLY YOU, Mint, Sweet Kisses, Big Boys Cry, and many more songs from the last several years that Namie really nailed from beginning to end. I just brought up the Ayu examples because she's had some pretty bad English pronunciations in some of her songs. It's difficult for most Japanese singers because the R sound in Japanese is significantly different from English. Also, our language is among the hardest ones to learn because the same consonants and vowels can have significantly different pronunciations based on common usage.

In Ayu's favor though, she WAS married to two people whose first languages are English, and she did live overseas for some time.



Fair point, but there are a lot of people (including myself) that find Ayu's dramatics on stage to be overblown and depleted of entertainment at this point in her career. I am absolutely in love with SHU-YA, but if I have to watch another dramatic interpretive dance between him and Ayumi, I am going to pour bleach in my eyes.



No, no. People, including me, hold it against Ayu because she said in 2008 "I will not leave you" and then she tried to leave in 2010. And then she came back in 2011 trying to say that the tsunami made her choose between her and Manny. And are we supposed to be thankful that a massive disaster was what convinced Ayu to care again? Because I remember when she said that she wouldn't stop caring at all, even if she lost her hearing entirely.

And this isn't intended to bash Ayu, but I'm just clarifying that Namie never came out and swore up and down that she would never stop making music. That she was going to be a "professional" and keep going no matter what. Namie was just tired. And frankly, I think Namie wouldn't be tired if she could walk through an airport without being mobbed. Namie has always been very private, and always needed her space to reset, and I think it's just been years and years of her taking little breaks here and there when she's really been needing a lot of time to herself. Keep in mind that she's kept this career up through raising her son. She's missed a lot of those moments in her son growing up because she did make fans a priority. She's also largely been away from relationships since her divorce. I think it's fair for her to hang up the knee-high boots and go have coffee with some new guy, or go to the park with her son, or be able to stand in the crowd with other parents at graduation.



I can't even tell you how many times Ayu has hilariously forgotten her own lyrics. There are memes. There are memes.



She certainly did when she tried moving to America with Manny in 2010-2011. I don't know where the links are on this forum, but Ayu even addressed her "comeback" in 2015 leading up to A ONE. She talked about coming to terms with her career and status and wanting to find her way back again.



I literally cried over how bad MADE IN JAPAN turned out. I literally cried, Katsu. The second week of May 2016 is one of my memorable emotional points in the last five years of my life. I even wrote a lengthy post on the album's thread about how I just wanted Ayu to try. I just wanted her to care a little more. And at that point, she had let me down with A ONE, sixxxxxx, LOVE CLASSICS, Winter diary ~A7 Classical~, the singles-turned-mini-albums LOVE and again, and LOVE again, and the release of Terminal as a single, and how every CDL had become a preview of the next tour.

So, I just broke over Ayu when MADE IN JAPAN came out. Because I was holding on for a LONG time and hoping she would get her spark back after leaving Japan in 2010. I really was holding on. I thought FIVE was a good step. I thought PQ was a misstep. And then I thought LOVE was a misstep, and then again was a misstep, and then LOVE again was a misstep. But I work in analytics, Katsu. A trend is a trend. And I just don't know how you're not seeing how little Ayu has invested in her career in any other way besides touring since 2010.

This is way off of any comparison to Namie, because that's not the point. And do I still look forward to hearing what Ayu does next? Yes. But when Namie announced her retirement, I had an OMG moment. If Ayu announced her retirement tomorrow, I would honestly just feel a little disappointment. I'm not saying Namie is better than Ayu in any way. I am just pointing out that I have been where you are with Ayu for years (in fact, my obsession with Ayu outlined so many moments with my old best friend of 12 years... he introduced me to her in 2006 with Moments and I got to be around for the release of Secret. And I still think JEWEL is one of the most amazing ballads I have ever heard.) but I do not feel like I have missed anything the same way I do about Namie's last 9 years.



Again, the point was that I wanted to share some perspective on my end as someone who wasn't a huge fan of Namie but has looked back and felt like I should have been more of a fan over the years. We can agree to disagree on this, and that's fine, but I think you put Ayu on a pedestal and unfairly judged Namie (a completely different artist who started with completely different circumstances and faced completely different hurdles in her career) based on the really awesome things you see in Ayu. And that's great to value Ayu. But Namie is really awesome too. And we really got to see her best these last 10 years or so. And that's really cool imo.



Totally agree! Highlighted quote! I don't think Namie makes "mistakes". I just think, even on my own as someone who wasn't a fan, that Namie just had a stellar career that really stands on its own like other artists' careers.