Later into her career, when her name alone wasn't enough to have huge sales, Ayu actually did release different versions of the same release with different content, like the bonus gifts, different remixes, etc, so even someone who only wanted to have every track she ever released would need to buy more than one version.

And Oricon itself already said the point of the chart is pointing out who sells the most in Japan, not who is most popular. The main point is helping the industry knows who is more viable as a marketing brand. AKB48 is selling a lot, it doesn't matter if it's not to a lot of people if the fandom still buys several of a chocolate, for example, the girls are promoting.

That all stands. However at least during her peak Ayu did not have to release X different versions of an album to get it to sell. It was mostly when avex was desperately trying to keep the streak and break the record (Mirrorcle World anyone?) that they started to go all gimmicky which is as legit as what AKB's management is doing. The thing that I find debatable is their cultural impact and the significance of their music.

Because I think that's the best comment here and I wouldn't be able to phrase it better at all, I just repost it. =)

I don't think they had much of a cultural impact either. Manufaturated acts rarely do.

Ya'll need to relax, ayu's still up there when it comes to legends. Akb48 sold more so what?? That doesn't make them disgusting or culturally irrelevant at all.

Sure. You can find it directly at the IFPI, which measures stuff like that (http://www.ifpi.org/global-statistics.php).
Or you can find a statistic over at Wikipedia, using the IFPI data:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glob...ket_share_data

@Oaristos:
I see.
But measuring popularity is complicated on its own like somebody already said. I mean, AKB has fans willing to spend that much on them ( and not on other idol groups e.g.).I remember reading an article in 2013 or 2014 about one guy bulkbuying their singles.
And his answer to why was, that he doesn't know another way to show his love and support for the group.
It's somewhat crazy, but it is an achievement as well, I guess, to have such fans.
And their handshake events were huge at their prime (here's an experience in English: http://blog.nilghe.com/my-akb48-handshake-experience/) in stadiums and all, and their performing there as well before the handshake.
So as long as the record company or the CEO isn't buying their own stuff, but actual fans do, I personally don't see a problem.

Maeda Atsuko's hairstyle had a heavy impact for a while but now the trend is gone

ayu's blonde & fashion had a heavy impact in 2000 and look how Kana Nishino is still out there living from what ayu raised

I kind of sense that you think is ethic the way fans wallet is exploited by AKB. If it was ethic in the first place AKB wouldn't have been kicked out from their previous record company SONY (After the conglomerate was sued for a marketing practice of putting 1 out of 48 random posters inside of CDs, therefore even if you buy all the 48 CDs you wouldn't get all the posters).

We are all very relaxed. Just discussing a topic.

I knew this thread would be fun lol

Sure, that's why this year, after one girl announced she was getting MARRIED, the producer asked her to stay in the group.
That's why Sashihara Rino, after a scandal, ranked 1st in their election FOUR times (three in a row).

Your last sentence is such a low blow that it'sjust wrong.
Someone could say there must be something lacking in the life of some kids who write thousands of posts in an online forum.

You make it sound as if those 1000 girls are doing handshakes to get these sales.
The Sakamichi are completely separated from AKB, and even between them they don't share events.

AKB is the only one that uses the sister groups (the other 48) in their events, which would amount to 300 members.

As for gimmicks, let's not pretend Ayu didn't release A BEST 2 BLACK/WHITE.
Or that she didn't release two mini albums (LOVE and again) to mash them up in a GASP full length album!
Please.

I do agree that comparing the sales is BS, tbf.
Ayu got most of these sales back in the 00s (she's just added like 500k to her total in the last 5 years), while AKB sells more events than music itself.

For AKB's management Oricon is just another gimmick. Free publicity, basically.
Same reason the million streak is so important for them, because they gets articles and clicks.

Still, to say they didn't have any impact in the industry is a fallacy.
2010 - 2013 was basically about them.
Songs like Heavy Rotation, Everyday Katyusha or Koisuru Fortune Cookie were proper hits that stayed in the charts for months.
They did dome concerts and dome tours around the country, etcetera.

Had it not been for AKB, Morning Musume (and the rest of the Hello! Project) wouldn't have resurfaced again, and same goes for the whole idol industry.
Had it not been for that idol boom, magazines like OVERTURE or UPDATE girls wouldn't have been born (which are more about fashion than flashing boobs, mind you).
Their importance goes beyond creepy otakus unable to get laid.

So yeah, they had an impact and they were popular.
Are they as popular now? Hell no. They even can't admit it, but it shows whenever they do a concert and you compare it to what they used to do back in the day.

But don't Ayu's sales reflect exactly the same? That her peak is gone?

This was interesting to read, thank you ^^

Wow, putting random stuff in CDs is illegal? Then the whole kpop industry should be sued (random photocards and whatnot) :laugh or is it only illegal if it's posters? I'm not being sarcastic btw, I'm genuinely curious.

Also, my opinion on AKB48 outselling Ayu... I'm not surprised at all. A little upset, because I love Ayu, but this day was going to come sooner or later. All records will be broken eventually. I'm not stanning ayu for bragging rights anyway.

They impacted the industry in the sense that every label tried to make copy cat groups because they were the only act selling records. The influx in idol groups isn't necessarily a positive thing.

Morning Musume sold well in an era when many, many acts were selling well. Idols were only one aspect of Japanese music. The charts from the 90s until maybe 2006/7 were filled with various types of music, as well as solo, bands, duos, and idol groups.

Since 2008/9, the highest selling artists each year were Arashi and AKB. And AKB's sister groups as well as JE made up the majority of the remaining top 10.

For people who enjoy a plethora of genres and artists, this is a frustrating situation. Especially because of the means by which AKB sells their music. And to be honest, many AKB fans are 30+ men with money to blow. Does that mean that all of them are? No. But many are. Middle school students and high school students don't have a lot of money to spend, and music has become one of the less important things to buy physically. Clothes, smartphones, and hair -- like western countries, have become the most important for teens. So artists that can sell millions now are very rare. Hence AKBs sales are looked at with a skeptical eye.

AKB (and idol groups in general) are only as successful as their members allow. Now that the faces of AKB have all left, holding on to known members is more valuable for their relevance. Not to mention the head shaving incident became news all over the world. Perhaps there are exceptions, but generally speaking, the members during the peak remain the well known figures. Once they leave, the interest in the group starts to fade, as does the influence of their music on the industry.


Ayu has used tactics to sell singles/albums, as have most other artists in Japan. Thats normal in Japan. However, events that specifically allow you to meet members, vote on the next members, and directly interact with the artist, along with photo books and included songs, and different members on each cover, is not the same. Particularly when done over and over again.

haha yeah that's why I made it

As a matter of fact, I wasn't even talking about their sales or making a comparision. People were contemplating how much members the 48g/46g had so far and I said the total.

This. I agree with this so much.
Not to mention, some of the lyrics are problematic: promote harassment (Getsuyoubi no Asa, Skirt wo Kirareta by Keyakizaka46) and enjo kosai (sefuku ga jama suru) and some HKT48 song basically said women should focus on pretty and that they were stupid (Einstein yori Dianna Agron)

For me, I don't think whether they are actual musicians or not really matter. If that's the barometer then people like Namie et cetera likely wouldn't be on the list. Or for US artists, pretty much about half of them wouldn't be able to count their sales. For me what discounts them is the tactics to artificially inflate their sales numbers. Concert tickets, handshake tickets, millions of versions to buy of the same single etc. etc.

Now, I was living in Tokyo during the boom and they did have some level of general popularity, but outside of their otaku fanbase, it was primarily limited to elementary school aged children. I didn't see them quite have the pervasive fanbase that you find with say, Arashi (every age group in the country across both genders, essentially); but yet AKB is selling over a million every single and Arashi is not. Hmmm wonder why? It couldn't possibly be the insane sales tactics. (sarcasm)

I guess we will see in 15 to 20 years if they still have songs that are mainstream relevant. I could see maybe Heavy Rotation and Koisure Fortune Cookie....but that's about it.

Actually, I would argue in Japan manufactured acts have a significant history of having a large cultural impact: Smap, Arashi, Morning Musume anyone? I just don't know if I think AKB is one of them.

That really kind of illustrates the point though. Can anyone with a straight face say that AKB had a larger impact than SMAP even though the sales might want you to think so? Hell no.

This. I used to love watching all the music specials/end of year shows etc. Now they are a complete bore because it's just the same over and over and over again with very little variety at all.

Is Arashi that popular among boys? I thought 90% of their fanbase (and other JE's groups) were girls.

Oh, Arashi is well liked across both genders. The ones primarily buying CDs, concert tickets etc are still majority women (across many age groups) I imagine, because a lot of the public in general just don't buy physical releases anymore unless you are a dedicated fan, but they have a decent fanbase among men too. They figured out the way to grasp all fanbases: women want to date them, grandparents want them to be their grandsons, and men want to go out to the bar after work and hang with them.

SMAP and Arashi are two of the only "boybands" who have managed to just be generally well-liked and supported by men as well as women.

Sure, that's why they made one of the girls shave her head and post an apology for spending the night with her boyfriend. It's great someone was ranked #1 after a scandal, but that doesn't erase all the other situations.

I was going to ignore this because apparently, you got way too offended by my comment (even though it was directed to older Japanese men and not at the rest of their fanbase), but be mindful of your attitude. No one here is attacking—directly or indirectly—other forum members, so don't be the first to do that.

Actually, yeah, you are right. I still get the feeling a popular manufaturated act will more often vanish without leaving much impact compared to a popular act with a bigger creative freedom.

And there's also popular acts that started manufaturated and that slowly got a personality of their own, like Namie Amuro, Seiko Matsuda, Momoe Yamaguchi, etc.

They didn't make her. She had a breakdown and did it herself.
Management accepting he video and uploading to their YouTube channel was indeed wrong, but nobody asked her to do anything. She could have just left like many others had before.

You actually think this wasn't company backed from the beginning? And even if it hadn't been, them uploading it amounts to the same thing.