Ayu's music: when did it start to go downhill for you?
 

Well, I hope this isn't seen as a thread meant to lambast or put down Ayu but rather I wanted to be honest as someone who has been listening to her music for over 10 years. Frankly, I find a lot of Ayu's recent releases to be very mediocre in comparison to what she was capable of putting out before, in terms of musical genres she was willing to cross, the raw emotions she was willing to expose, the risks she was willing to take. It's almost inconceivable to imagine her putting out something as fearless as Evolution, with the way she spits out lyrics as though she were in frenzied prayer, her voice keening and wailing like a wild animal's, chaos surrounding her voice as though she were on the edge of the birth of all creation. The song earns its title. I'm sorry to sound like someone stuck in nostalgia, but personally nothing she has done since compares to the progression from LOVEppears to Duty to I am... And I'm not talking about the kind of music that she produced during that era, which certain people seem to think is what I'm yearning for. What I miss about Ayu is that desire to experiment, to push things, to risk failure, to lose herself in her music.

Personally, I believe that her music started to take a sharp dive in quality around the time of Secret. For me, that album was her last good one, and (Miss)understood her last great one. I believe that this was when she began to appeal mostly to her core fanbase, when she began to rely on and cycle through formulas that proved to be successful (upbeat summer singles, melancholy winter songs, rockish album tracks), when she began to contour her music solely according to what was expected of her, when she began to surround herself by a near permanent creative team for her image, music, and performances. Don't get me wrong; she's still capable of magic every now and then, a few songs here and there, but there is this nagging sense that it seems like she's simply going through the motions, lacking in passion.

I miss the urgency, that spirit of wanting to reach new ground and break through what was expected of a typical J-pop idol, that hunger to be brave and new. Back then, Ayumi Hamasaki was this amorphous entity, volatile, prone to transformations. These days, Ayumi Hamasaki seems to have hardened and fossilized into Ayumi Hamasaki, that doll-like, wide-eyed, girlish idol with that same Bancho nail art, gyaru hair style and color, who seems trapped in time, almost seeming to want to arrest time, when it moves forward without her. It's time to grow up. I want to fall in love with you again.

Her last good album was NOTHING FROM NOTHING. It's her most creative work to date and nothing she has released will ever top the amazing vocal technique and creative cover art. Everything else has just gone downhill since then.

I agree with you. Ever since listening to such memorable and unique tracks such as paper doll, I can't immerse myself fully in her music without questioning her ability as an artist who is willing to take risks and be the girl she was meant to be. I wish she'd go back to that originality, this sort of uniqueness that can't be found anymore. Sigh.

Tbh. I don't think her music has gone downhill. She herself has changed however. Imo. She's a much stronger and brighter person than who she used to be. And the messages she gives in her current lyrics show that. Ayu still does do different things, NL album...and for recent times Lady Dynamite, SLT, DLB, Sunset, etc is not something often heard from her if ever at all.
She does try new things.

If you are expecting the same type of passion and lyrics for evolution then yes, you are stuck in time. Ayu has grown up and continues too as the years progress. She's really seemed to learn how to have more fun with her career and her fans after this time. She doesn't have to write songs about the pain from her father or betrayal and older themes if its not how she feels.
Didn't she once express something about hearing her older songs and being in a state of wonder how she wrote them.

Imo the way ayu is today, this year, is a powerful woman who continues to inspire. With lyrics like from Lady dynamite and SLT...I mean I can't say otherwise. With lyrics from Microphone and DLB she has the ability to still express herself in a cry to people. In a not so shrill voice. But in a voice that is and will continue to be ayu
What u say u miss in ayu. Experimenting, losing herself, pushing herself, and she's always risking failure
How can I say otherwise? Her music is always changing? So a complete genre change on NL is not doing anything new? Just same old same old?

The fact that she even continues to persist on even with a deaf ear, a dying voice, and fans like you implying she doesn't try anymore, she's stronger than ever before these past few yrs.
If u just watch her shows u can see this change. AT09 is the most fun ayus looked like she's had simply performing I've seen. Its the newfound power and joy she has now that radiates from her soul. And the pain along the way can still come back

I understand apparently everyone seems to expect ayu to make miracle music for all these 12 yrs of her career but imo the fact that a fan stopped liking her music by secret is not surprising nor bad. U have 8 great albums apparently. I'm sure ull be fine
Different eras of ayu bring me different things. I am has something rainbow doesn't have. Rainbow has something duty doesn't have. Guilty has something rainbow doesn't have :yes

In the meantime ill inform u if I really think her music is finally going downhill
:)
(Also what do u mean same style. It keeps changing XD as usual)

I wish Ayumi would fall back into a deep depression again, it was the only time when she put out good music! It seems that whenever she's happy with her life and is trying to make her fans feel the joy of her life, she starts releasing such mediocre bullcrap! (pardon my language)

For me, she started to go downhill around Secret / GUILTY, GUILTY was the first album by her that I was so turned off by that I hated listening to it. I at least loved the photoshoots for it though, but it didn't help that after that her single covers / album covers got so bad (S/S, R/S, NEXT LEVEL...)

But her downhill slide wasn't long, she redeemed herself with some good music and I'm loving her a lot again. It wasn't really downhill, it was more of a period where I got sick of her.

Fruit you! You're trying to be sadistic here hahaha...

Anyway, for me, Guilty was the one which made a slight change for me, and then things was recovered back again on Next Level.

I know right? It sickens me that she has such a positive outlook towards life now and releases summer songs with bright, cheery lyrics every year. Who does she think she is being happy during the summer time? Where is my summer A song for XX/POWDER SNOW?

NEVER EVER :P

@cutieismylife and identity: I'm not sure what to say to u two...I don't see your point in trying to make it appear as if he's done something wrong by not liking some of her music
I found things in his statements that I don't understand and think are quite false assumptions. But on the point that he doesn't like her current music. Its not something they should be bothered about as its all personal taste.
If you want to write like me, pointing out something else that u don't agree with, why is it so hard to do. It in such a non-sadistic (like spartayu said) way. :yes

No one is saying ayu should act like a depressed child. They clearly just prefer that music. I will not repeat the things said in my original post as that was enough for explaining my true views and agreements/disagreements with his views

everything after RAINBOW *sigh*

It hasn't gone downhill at all for me.

I kind of agree that she put out better music when she was depressed and whatnot, but...if it takes her being miserable again to put out that kind of music, then I don't need it.

I wouldn't necessarily say that she's gone "downhill," she has just changed her style of music to my disliking. For me, I was getting turned off with the release of Secret. I hate the album, I only enjoyed "kiss o' kill" out of every track. But, I loved the GUILTY album. After GUILTY is when I started noticing it's not the same Ayu from the I am... days. She's growing. She's not in her early 20s anymore and I would be more turned off is she acted like she was.

Though, I am still waiting for her to release another unforgettable track that I can call an Ayu classic.

StrawbariSnowAyumi, ero-kakkoii, Spartayu, captain-kawaii123, JackieRos, Pieces_of_SEVEN, Mintkisses, thank you for well thought-out and civil responses, even if you disagree with me. I guess sarcasm will always be the recourse of the narrow-minded. You try to put forward a reasonable argument and then you're greeted with a dismissive wave of the hand. Is it too much to ask for an intelligent and respectful discussion? Well, it is AHS, after all...

Mintkisses, I wouldn't want her to be frozen in the I am... days either. What I was saying in my original post was that she didn't manage to carry over the passion that I found so key to her musical progression from A Song for XX to miss(understood), and that is what I sorely miss in her recent music. There was artistic growth within that timeframe, but in my opinion she stopped evolving around the time of Secret. Everything since then has relied on safe, fan-friendly, and proven formulas.

StrawbariSnowAyumi, of course I'm not expecting the same kind of energy and lyrical themes of the I am... era. What disappoints me with her recent music is that she seems to lack the passion, the eagerness to take risks. And personally, that shows in her lyrics, much of which is beginning to sound repetitive to me at this point. Looking and stepping toward the future, the strength of women, a lot of her recent writing sounds like something she has already written before. But like I said, she is capable of wonderful things every now and then. I just don't think she is as consistent as she was, like a whole album-full.

I do think her image is stuck in a time warp. She needs a new stylist and makeup artist.

Probaably ASFXX.

But thankfully it picked up again with LOVEppears and has been steady going since. :yes

Well your welcome. I don't think its just AHS (as I'd hate to be classified that way because I'm active here). Its anywhere tbh. There's always someone with some comment. Ah well~
Don't mind it.

Were all ayu fans here at some point in time (at least I'd hope XD )

No matter when "her music went downhill" if it ever did

^StrawbariSnowAyumi, I edited my post above :)

Calico, yes, I agree she has always been steady. I never did say that her music post-Secret has been terrible or awful. Just that it has only been good enough. And I want more than that. I do think she might be past her artistic peak, and has settled into a comfortable place with regards to her music. Oh well, maybe she'll prove me wrong with an enka-inspired album. Or something with only Japanese instruments. Or just her and a piano.

By the way, I think Honey is one of the best songs I've ever heard, and it's probably her most life-affirming song. I don't know why people assume that I prefer Ayu when she is writing sad music? I think it's a fallacy to say that her past music is depressing overall. The only album that resulted out of a deep depression really is Guilty. She's always displayed a range of emotions. Independent, July 1st, Voyage, Angel's Song, Bold and Delicious, Replace, Moments, Greatful Days, Unite, Audience, Fly High, these are all joyous songs, I love them all, and I think she has yet to match any of them with her recent output.

yes exactly thank you

that's cruel but true XD

It never went downhill to me... She had some bad music on the begining, she has some bad music now and life goes on...

But i would like to ask when did her fanbase start going downhill...

^comments like that don't make the fanbase seem anything but spiteful, yeah? :) ... I can say it sickens me when those stereotype people who are only ayu fans for a couple yrs like we're some abomination. Did I do anything? Haha~
...If...that's....what...you...mean.... XP otherwise is it about how she loses fans like crazy

U see. I think. There is a point where an artists plateaus. People grow to become amazing. I'm an intsrumental musician and learning this myself. U never reach the top but there is a point where your ghrowing isn't so much. Just barely
After so many albums. Its only likely with ayu that some fan will feel this way :) its unfortunate but oh well~

I still think she is putting much passion into her work. Just into giving different messages. Repeating is not wrong. Andi think ayu has had similar lyrics her whole career. My point though is that people repeat because the people who are meant to hear it just don't get it. I'm sure ayus not going to write certain lyrics if she doesn't feel that way. The last thing I want is half-hearted lyrics.
I don't think any lyric ayu has written her whole career was ever taking a risk. It was expressing herself at the time. And apparently she can't believe it was her who wrote some of those lyrics as she keeps changing

I do think she's taking risks however. So I don't understand what u mean. I'm surprised when I hear certain songs from her cuz its definitely different.
I think the risks she is taking just do not sound good to everyone. And some people believe the misconception that experimental ayu = good songs.
Ayu is definitely putting work in passion into what she does. But after all these yrs what new evolution do u expect. I'd prefer her not to do childrens songs. And not to go kumi on us. And not to sound like generic boy bands and girl groups.
And I don't want. A marilyn manson ayu XD but I do think with her new themes and ideas she does continue to grow. RnRC was definitely a different step for her.
Trust me. She's passionate about her career. Ur just not fond of the things and styles she's passionate about nowadays. Maybe ayu grew to fast for u

I think its impractical for u to state that she's not experimenting enough and changing enough :) even the ever popular artists like Michael Jackson couldn't do so mcuh. Nor Madonna. And also not without many unhappy fans :yes

I think some fans should realize what ayu has done in this period of time and accept that there's not much more growing to do and that if they are not fond of her recent music, they are not fond of it ^__~

J'ai fini :laugh (and I didn't think I could do all this on my phone haha~)

I'll have to say beginning with NEXT LEVEL.

Andrenekoi, the last original album of hers to sell really well with respect to ranking (and not sales numbers, which have been going down since the early 00s), is (miss)understood, which ranked in the top 10 yearly. After that, only her best albums would rank in the top 10. I am guessing she lost a lot of her fanbase sometime after (miss)understood. Probably after A Best 2.

StrawbariSnowAyumi, ah, yes, of course, artists always plateau. It's inevitable, especially after they've produced their best work, which I think Ayu has already done. But I wish that she had chosen a different plateau to stay at :P When I say she's not taking risks, I notice that she uses the same composers over and over, and the same arrangers, and the content of her albums carry with them certain expectations (girl power track, summer song, sad ballad, rock number, fan song, transitional interludes). I perfectly understand why she's doing so (she feels more comfortable with these composers and arrangers musically), but this risks settling in some sort of artistic comfort zone. I guess it's really boils down to a case of me not liking where she has eventually settled music-wise. Madonna, however, has managed to continually evolve with good music for at least a couple of decades (the 80s and 90s). I'm sure Ayu can do the same :) I mean, Radiohead, Bjork and PJ Harvey have been breaking through personal musical barriers all throughout their careers so far.

I think I would like to see Ayu scale back for once, produce a raw album, an imperfect-sounding album. A simple album.

Downhill? I don't think it's gone downhill, yet. What I listen to is mostly Memorial address and before. That's the time period when Ayu produced her best music I think.

And what's with all the lame sarcasm that's not funny? We don't all have to love everything Ayu does. We're not stans. :laugh Oh...

Around NEXT LEVEL but it went uphill with Rock 'n' Roll Circus. :D

I agree with everything Strawbari has said :) Ayu has changed over the years; she's grown as a person :yes For someone like Ayu, every song she writes, every song she sings, it's her best work for her. She's proud of what she does and she should be :) So I don't think Ayu's music ever went downhill. (^^)

This.

The thing about ayu when compared to madonna (for example) is that she broke most of these barriers in half the time. And look where madonna has ended up now. And it took so long
There just isn't much else that she. Has to go. Or that she would even musically like. U have to consider an artists will not perform a style they don't like or are not feeling
I don't think ayu made any of her changes just for the heck of it XD like what u say about taking risks with composers. I don't think her mindset was "oh I've used so and so already so I'm sure if I change to another so and so this will be dangerous and cool and different"
As I already said. There's not much more for her to do so its very few options. What do u mean by raw album? Like an indie sounding one. I hear way to many indie bands and indie jrock and I don't want ayu to do that. Plus it sounds as it might end up being monotonous. Idk if she can do that right. Loveholics can do that right. Ayu. Idk
As a fan. I'd be okay with a full rock album. I don't need her to "be risky" and force herself into different genres to enjoy her music
And I'm not sure if ayus current state can handle not aiming for perfection. That would be a disaster most likely. :( she's quite perfectionist anyway XD
And umm...about that formula for her albums. If that's the case she's kinda been doing that her whole career. Why mention now? Its just a matter of not liking her music
I still don't know why u think her latest albums sound so similar and basic but I think she's always mixing it up
Its 12 years so far. Not 30. Not 40. She's made changes that she continues to incorporate here and there or just leave behind. :yes
I don't think she was really SUPER risky in the beginning, besides the avex influence, and. If she was that expiremental then. Then she easily is now. Its not so much about who composes etc. But what they compose. Which always is something new in the mix
I think what music she makes is sufficient for getting her points across. :) ayu doesn't need grindcore to be risking. Never has
If songs on NL like sparkle, rollin, love n hate, curtain call, etc and songs on RnRC like DLB, SLT, LD, Sunset, etc aren't her changing her style then idk what is. I'm sure SLT is a lot riskier than audience. :)

Sorry I write so much :P I never feel like my opinions are clearly understood :3 don't mine me. I talk a lot. I'm surprised ur still replying XD

It went downhill? I've just seen it as growth.

I understand what you are saying. But I don't see it as "downhill," but a "change."

The urgency that we heard was something born from desperation, where she was desperately trying to find her place in the world. She sang A Song for XX, once during her debut, again during A Best, and then once more for A Ballads. During these eras, she was still trying to find her place, because she was called "Ayumi Hamasaki" the product, in which she had a message against Avex, against the people who criticized her during that one Countdown Live, and she still wasn't finished dealing with her feelings about her father.

She was still the Ayumi Hamasaki that was seen everywhere, on the billboards of Japan at every time of the year, on every magazine cover during every season... She never stopped running, and she never stopped performing. During 2000, she had the two Concert Tours, then the first countdown, during 2001, she had the first huge Dome Tour, which was a huge success, during 2002, she had Arena Tour and Stadium Tour, Countdown Live, then 2003, she had TA Tour, A Museum, and then Arena Tour 2003 - 2004...

I think the urgency that we felt was that she was fighting against many things in her life, while continuing to run on her journey through the Japanese Entertainment World. She had to transform herself every season, to keep up with creating the new trends of Japan that everyone expected from her.

But in the back of her mind, she knew that one day, it would all end, which is why she did everything she did in that short amount of time. But during that course, she discovered that her fans would never abandon her, and even in her 10th year, she had so many people who support her, even though she didn't do as much as she did as say in 2002, or 2003.

I think she's found a place which is comfortable, and a place where she doesn't have to change, because everything is looking bright and great. I think it's because she ran to where she is now, and she's creatively tired... but I think with the status of her voice before, there was actually not much experimenting she could do because her voice wasn't in the greatest of states...

Actually, I have a confession. I really am bored of MOON now... it's really boring for me, and neither blossom... it's because her voice is too low and sounds bored... but crossroad sounds great, she sounds like she's using her high voice, and I think we will see the birth of experimentation, because she has confidence in her voice again.

That's what I think what happened... she lost confidence in her voice.

Uemarasan, I don't feel Ayu's music has gone downhill. I feel that she has taken plenty of risks post-Secret, some very unexpected ones too. Sparkle and Sexy Little Things being the biggest in my opinion. Neither of which I would call "fan-friendly." Some of her PVs also show great risk. GREEN has homosexual themes and Lady Dynamite was probably the biggest PV risk in her entire career. NEXT LEVEL itself (especially following GUILTY) was a big risk, she practically did a 180 proving she is not as predictable as we all may think.

As far as the passion you crave, I can't say it is missing. I think some people ridiculously under-estimate the raw passion and emotion in GUILTY. I mean seriously, have you heard that album??? (I don't mean that in a rude sense btw lol). Do you not hear her anger in talkin' 2 myself and decision? Do you not hear her breaking and vulnerable vocals in GUILTY? Can you not understand her heartbreak in fated, Together When... and untitled ~for her~? If you do not see these things as passion, I'm not sure what you're looking for. Post-GUILTY it seems as if Ayu is now beginning to enjoy her music and she's playing with it and having fun with it. She is STILL trying new things. Things you can not judge from her singles alone. She is still expressing her emotions and her opinions.

I know you want that raw, intense, experimental, passionate Ayu back. But please, re-examine her recent works, I think you may be over looking the intensity in her music. Especially if you think GUILTY qualifies as "downhill" by your definition. Please understand that right now she is enjoying herself right now and just because she is not pushing the envelope like she use to, it does not mean she will never do it again. Also, please understand that she continues on for us, she pushes herself for us, she loses sleep for us, she sacrifices for us. She has done so her entire career. Even if you no longer feel the passion in her music, don't forget her passion for her fans. :)

To be honest, the only things are started to go downhill are her lyrics imo.
I love Ayu because she's not the usual pop-star, with cheesy and stupid lyrics. Her lyrics are pretty meaningful for a mainstream singer. But I find her lyrics the same lately.
She seems out of ideas. She don't know what to talk about else than 'yay we walk under this bright sky, together!' 'I hope this song reach youUuUuUu (this is a vibrato :laugh)'.
Luckily, she has written some awesome lyrics lately ,especially before NL, but they're few :|

I agree with Strawbari btw, she's keep changin' musical style even though she's more pop-rock oriented. Anyway I keep follow her, because my love and respect for Ayu its not finished yet. And I'm hoping it won't never finish. She just needs some inspiration and write brilliant lyrics again :yes I trust in Ayu.


lol I hope to explain all of my thoughts clearly ;_; sorry if I made mistakes.

Memorial address was a low for me... I didn't like that direction at all. Then she hit another high with m(u), then back downhill with Secret and Guilty... Now I really like the direction her music is going in. So ups and downs for me.

I completely understand, and agree with you.

I feel that right now she's doing her music for the fans (which isn't bad) but I believe she has great potential to gain a bigger fan base. In the end, it isn't all about the number of fans or numbers, it's about what Ayu decides is best for her and her career as a artist.

for me..SECRET was her WORST album ever...i can stand "until the day" "blue bird" "beatufiul fighter" "jewel" even momentum is a rip of another ayu works.

yes missunderstood was her best album (heaven,B&D, fairyland,Step you...)

but Guilty for me is another precious album, full of density and hard feelings.
is a album with a touch of pain and darkess that i love...as an album works better than (m)u

GUILTY downhill?... NO!

the electro sound of NEXT LEVEL work really well...Rule is her best rock track, Curtin' call is one of a kind, Days is a new classic, and the trilogy "energize-sparkle-rolling" is the soul of the album.

Next level downhill? NO WAY!

rock&roll circus i think stuck her carreer a little bit...none of theses songs work perfectly.
microphone, you were...,lady dinamite, link, sunrise, are just rip off from old ayu masterpeaces.
"sexy little thing" i think is the only song that have a fresh touch (a next level touch)

R'N'R downhill? ...is to early to say that..i think we have to wait a couple of years to have an answer.

There are only a handful of Ayu songs that I dislike, and they're spread out all over the place. She hasn't ever gone down hill IMO, but she may have hit some walls with her lyrics and songs sometimes. Look at how many songs she's made though. Hitting a wall is bound to happen sometime, it happens to any kind of artist. You can't expect her to come out with a song that has completely different lyrics every time.

If anything, she's grown up and has definitely grown through her music. She isn't going to release a perfect album or single all the time, and I'm okay with that. I'll continue to enjoy her music for what it is, not what it could have been.

Probably around GUILTY. I mean (for me) its not so much that her music has gone down hill per say but it takes to me longer to fully appreciate her last few albums. They just don't have that whole instant first listen ''OMG THIS IS THE BEST THING I'VE HEARD EVER IN LIFE!!!" appeal that they used to.

And on a side note, I don't like how she's been using the same recipe with the same composers and arrangers. MOON/blossom was a totally bore, MOON and sounds like a rip off of one of Seiko's or day after tomorrow's old songs and blossom isn't that much better. Idk, she her and her creative people are probably just in a rut right now. Its hard to have fresh ideas all the time.

Days/GREEN is when it went down hill. Poor woman hasn't been able to fully recover since.

Well, this is reli subjective because, from her "best works" like I am..., which happens to be one of my least favorite albums from her anyway, are also "bad" songs that don't appeal to anyone at all.

If you ask me, I think she probably made a mistake with Secret & GUILTY. Probably she shouldn't have rushed Secret into a full album; it was decent, but something felt lacking in the album, you know what I mean? Or rather, it's that feeling that because she rushed it, the songs could've been better or something. :shrug

As for GUILTY, I don't know if it's her or avex, but I think whoever who decided that she decided needed to release GUILTY at that time needed to be shot. She was obviously in the worst of her moods & times, and for her to record an album? She even confessed to hurriedly writing lyrics to a few of the album tracks just to complete the recording... I do agree GUILTY was a dark & raw album, however, there was also that feeling of, "Get it over & done with" with GUILTY, ya?

NEXT LEVEL was just another oddity too; it felt like she was THAT desperate for something "new, a "change" that she just jumped into what the current trend was without considering if she actually fit it. And that's how we got the PV for Sparkle.

With Rock'n'Roll Circus, I think she's back again. Or rather, she has cleared her mess from Secret and is ready to rock again. :)

MOON/blossom was unimpressive though, just sayin' ^^

But of course, she had gems from the Secret era onwards; JEWEL, BLUE BIRD, Together When... Days, these were the real good songs I felt from that 2006-2009 period :yes

I do not think Ayumi has gone downhill. She continue to release lovely songs so I am happy ^.^ Why are many people hating Guilty? It is my favorite album and I think it is very lovely ^.^ I also love Secret, most kiss o' kill ^.^

I agree with everyone that has said she is still experimenting. And I absoloutely still think she puts passion and heart into her music, it's just not as desperate as before as she is in a better place (emotionaly) right now. She is a strong confident woman, not a lost and sad child and I for one love that. I love that Ayu has been able to grow and accept herself through her music. And heal...Not many people get to do that and I think it's a beautiful think. As a great man once sais 'if I can't heal from my art, then how can you heal?' I think that's what Ayu has always been aiming for.

I honestly think she has had some great and not so great music throughout her entire career...And some of her more recent stuff is more out there than some of the things she produced before (Mirrorcle World, SLT et cetera).
I guess it all just comes down to what you personally want to hear.

P.s. I love her deeper huskier voice, it ain't boring or bad to me at all...It's sexy:P

I like her new albums more than her old ones. Singles have been kind of lackluster though.

In my opinion, her peak was during the Duty/I am... era. She hasn't yet made an album as solid as Duty and as impressive lyrically, thematically and stylistically as I am...

Since then, she only went slightly downhill until around GUILTY where her music just became generic pop, with notable exceptions. I quite enjoyed NEXT LEVEL as it was something new for her and quite refreshing. However, as far as I'm concerned, she hit rock bottom with Rock'n'Roll Circus. It's like she has nothing new to say anymore, so her music just sounds boring and repetitive these days.

No downhill for me either.

I think though that until around Memorial address ayu's music was really oriented with the help of her manager/producers (hence the need for ourselves) and that's where you would find her releasing a lot of different things both in singles and albums.

Since then she became more and more independent with each release and she also has changed, she got a bit more matured, she changed perspectives, she likes releasing summer/winter singles in order to make her fans and management happy (thus make her happy) and she mainly experiments with her albums tracks nowadays, NEXT LEVEL album is a good example, Rock'n'Roll Circus' Don't look back and especially Sexy little things which was kind of a "breakthrough" since how many artists make swing pop nowadays?

She still has brilliant songs, and still has emotional explosers (MOON was one for me) but they are different (I wouldn't say in quality) and ayu is different and her way of doing things is different. It's either you get along with it, you might lose her sometimes or keep on track regulary enjoying the great or less things she has to offer. ^^

it didn't yet. sorry to say, but she has so many bad songs in the past. i used to not like her because i only tried out albums like Duty and MY STORY and thought she was boring and overrated. Rock 'n' Roll circus made me realize she does have talent and can make an exciting album. then looking back at her past 4 albums i realize how good they are too (not as good as Rock 'n' Roll circus though ha). i was missing out not giving her a chance before because of her boring old music. sorry if i offended anyone by saying this, it's just my opinion. a lot of people like her old music and i respect that and can enjoy a few old songs too.

It went 'downhill' when my expectation for her music heightened rapidly while being an ardent fan of her.

It hasn't really gone downhill for me because I'm bound to dislike some songs and love others on her albums.

She's always experimenting with new things, so the only thing that has changed is my expectations for her releases.

Can't really say. I wouldn't use the word "downhill" at this point but rather she's gone in a direction that for the most part, I haven't been feeling. I still consider myself a new fan (not getting fully into her until around the 50th singles/NEXT LEVEL). I enjoyed NL and that album is what convinced me to get into all her other albums (excluding MS and MA which had been the only ones I previously heard). I found that I prefer her older works to her newer works.

While I do acknowledge her vocals have gotten immensely better, I prefer her old voice because I feel more raw energy and I could really feel the messages she was trying to convey even though I can't understand the words. It's a little difficult to read her emotions in her post-GUILTY work. Musically and lyrically, though she's had really good albums before and after, I think her songs were at their highest quality from Duty to Memorial Address. The songs from those albums consistently had songs that imho deserved to be called 'classics' in her discography. But the albums certainly didn't go 'downhill' she just... changed (I think 'mature' is the wrong word for debatable reasons) and because of that, there's been more hits and misses. Secret had to grow on me, GUILTY had some great tracks but as a whole album was a complete bore, and after the 3rd time I can no longer listen to RnRC all the way through without falling asleep or forgetting I'm listening to it in the first place (that's a major indicator that something is boring me lol). I loved NL though (still do) and blossom is amazing so what can I say? lol :shrug



I will say with certainty that I agree with the comments on her lyrics feeling the same. It's like, 90% of her lyrics include something about walking together and holding hands. It's not like I want emo Ayu back and her lyrics for the most part are still pretty and more meaningful than most of what's out there but can she seriously write about something else? :laugh

http://ayumi.primenova.com/lyrics/mircrophone.htm
http://ayumi.primenova.com/lyrics/countdown.htm
http://ayumi.primenova.com/lyrics/sunsetloveisall.htm
http://ayumi.primenova.com/lyrics/ballad.htm
http://ayumi.primenova.com/lyrics/dontlookback.htm
http://ayumi.primenova.com/lyrics/ladydynamite.htm
http://ayumi.primenova.com/lyrics/sexylittlethings.htm
http://ayumi.primenova.com/lyrics/sunriseloveisall.htm
http://ayumi.primenova.com/lyrics/meaningoflove.htm
http://ayumi.primenova.com/lyrics/moon.htm
http://ayumi.primenova.com/lyrics/rollin.htm
http://ayumi.primenova.com/lyrics/lovenhate.htm
http://ayumi.primenova.com/lyrics/rule.htm
http://ayumi.primenova.com/lyrics/sparkle.htm
http://ayumi.primenova.com/lyrics/identity.htm

Thank you, everyone, for contributing to this discussion! I would reply to each and every one of you, but unfortunately I'm only human :) But thank you for allowing me to read all of your points-of-view!

You know, you've hit the nail on the head. That is exactly what I've been going through with Ayu these days.

Exactly. I miss that rawness in her voice, that imperfection that gave her songs so much emotion. Like I said, that quality of her losing herself in her music, of her being almost overwhelmed by emotion. I find her voice these days too controlled, almost too pretty.

Guilty has some good songs, but it is such a weak album for me. The only song that can stand alongside her "classics" is untitled ~for her, I think. Maybe fated and Guilty as well. Next Level is much better. It's slowly growing on me, so I'm giving it a chance. Rock 'n' Roll Circus, though, has yet to offer me anything. Sunset is lovely, I have to say, but I was hoping that it would be the album to revive my great love for her. I'll give it time to accept it as a typical Ayu album. I really have high hopes for the next one. She seems to have broken away from the usual mold of her summer singles.

I felt like Moments was the last good single and MY STORY the last awesome album, sorrey :)

After GUILTY. Or even before? I dunno :P But I still love her music :P

To be honest, I think Ayumi's music has always been hit or miss for me (since I can’t say that I’ve ever loved an entire album from beginning to end) despite her experimentation on so many levels but her music had a unique sound that was not formulaic that appealed greatly to me. That is not the case now; case in point RnR circus. This is her STUCK in a formula for the most part, and with the new single there is no improvement. I picked up the album at home a few days ago and listened to half of it and had no desire to listen to the other half when I had already heard the melodies elsewhere and they all sounded like each other anyway.
I don't know that it simply has to do with her growing up or becoming confident. She used to say that her inspiration was herself and other people's stories so if most of her lyrics nowadays is just about holding hands, and voice reaching the others heart etc etc then its simply lack of inspiration on her part to venture outside of this idea. In SLT she is so confident that it is spectacular, and in DLB there is so much doubt that it is painful. Unfortunately, these 2 are the only recent examples of inspiring music that I can give but it proves that she can still hone those feelings and release an enjoyable song. Someone earlier made a comment about her losing confidence in her voice and that could very well be a reason for the formulaic sound; if her voice isn't as versatile as before then of course she’s just going to stick to a formula.
If my favorite artist has no inspiration then I am honestly content to wait years for another amazing album rather than releasing for the sake of ...well releasing. I feel that she is taking her fans for granted with these uninspired/uninspiring releases.
So, to answer the question, I would say only recently. Her music, her voice, her image….they don’t need an overhaul, but they need that Ayu factor that is simply missing.

Nope, no down-hill here either.

I do have to admit I didn't like NEXT LEVEL.. I only liked Rule, Sparkle and EnergizE but the rest of the album I've hardly listened to. But I think SECRET is amazing, GUILTY is amazing, Rock'n'Roll Circus is amazing.. So it never went downhill, the only "low" for me was NEXT LEVEL.

Also after NEXT LEVEL, with Sunrise/Sunset and all.. I got a bit worried, thinking that she was going down-hill for me. But then came Microphone, Sexy Little Things, Don't Look Back, MOON, blossom :luv2 she's still as amazing as ever for me!

I think I look at ayu and how I still love all her albums as a whole and appreciate her music so much more for the fact that I can. Most of my other fav artists have all taken a downward spiral for me. I can't listen tolerate Namie, Hitomi shimatani, hikki, kumi (except gossip candy) and their latest releases. Like I can't take it anymore.
So I appreciate the fact that I still love all her releases as wholes etc. Especially knowing how picky I am. Even some of my fav jrock bands are just ugh. Nowadays
But ayu. She's just owning to me. And growing. And forever glowing, glittering, and sparkling. ^^

I hope that I never has to say that in general her music has gone downhill.

Never, and I listen to her for ages, since Duty. She's always trying new things and do epic stuff, just a recent master piece is Microphone. If people call that generic or not experimental you are in denial. I dont know which artist is more fun than her.
Ayu's fans just love to complain even when there's nothing to complain about. I wonder how it would be if Ayu really dont put anything out for a year or two. Maybe you would appreaciate her latest album.

I absolutely think she changed in a way I found unfavorable, but she came back up from it in some ways.

"RAINBOW" was a maaaaaajjjooorr disappointment for me personally. One of the things I loved Ayu for back in the day was not using English in her songs the way most jpop artists did. It almost never happened, and I loved that she was expressing herself honestly and sticking with what made her comfortable. Ayu was personal - she wrote for herself, and about herself and her friends. After her trip to HK for uraayu, she realized she had listeners who spoke english and suddenly felt the need to cater to them. This, in my opinion, was a bad move - she was suddenly writing for us, but for most of us, that's not what we wanted. It cheapened her influence on us, it made her seem less genuine. If I have fun watching a bear do his thing at the zoo, I don't want him to start posing when he notices me. It's cheesy. And that's what Ayu started to do, which was disappointing.

Her other problem since then has been her insistence on sticking with alot of the same people over time. Many people who she's worked with have been dismissed over time, and good thing too - not that they were bad, just that their time was over. But she should have switched graphic design companies ages ago. She should really replace Peco as a backup vocalist since, whether you like her or not, she's not a good choice to back AYU. Her voice is just too different.

In any case, she needs to surround herself with people of different backgrounds and mindsets. Co-workers aren't supposed to be friends, they're supposed to be co-WORKers. But she keeps them around as her family, and creative energy gets stale. When she shifted people out more often, her sound changed more often.

She's trying way too hard to please other people - her staff "family", fans, etc, and as a result she only takes creative risks occasionally.

RnRC was a gigantic step forward for her. "Sexy little things" is one of the best songs she's ever done - it is just WEIRD in places. "Don't look back" is her first time relying on being understated and honest since "JEWEL," but she adds a real world music twist on it for the first time since "Duty." Fans are really divisive about alot of the tracks on the album like Last Links and meaning of Love and that is what I like to see. If fans aren't arguing passionately over whether a song is good or not, it's probably not great. And Ayu used to be great. Now she's just good.

That said, if you listen to as much j-music as I do, you can still hear that Ayu's stuff is still WAY above average compared to almost everything else. She still feels so much more epic than most other music, and even her newer stuff attracts new fans quite efficiently (as I have learned firsthand recently!). So I'd argue that she's gone downhill, but only compared to herself. She's still amazingly honest, puts on incredible shows, and has brilliant videos. Her ratio of crap-to-awesome hasn't really changed that much, it's still pretty low.

Thank you all for the further discussion!

Poetgirl, I'm not complaining for the sake of complaining. I've tried to articulate what I've been experiencing with regards to her music, and I hope I've managed to express myself clearly and honestly. The last thing I want to achieve with this thread is to get other people to participate in a senseless whinefest.

And I really think she needs to stop releasing for a while. After the 50th single, hopefully. Or at least find some other source of inspiration. Enough of the repetitive vacations in Bali, Hawaii, New York, shopping binges in Hong Kong. Enough of the enclosed and half-hearted immersions in foreign cultures. Even her music videos show this (Mirrorcle World, Lady Dynamite). She parties in gay clubs in Tokyo, she parties in gay clubs in London. Can't she try something new? She could be learning so much more and enriching her life experience, and I think that would translate into better music. She needs to break out of the predictable cycle of her life.

Delirium-Zero, very interesting points you bring up. I agree: as I said somewhere in this thread, at some point she began to shift the focus of MOST of her writing and music towards what her fans and creative team and label expected of her, sometimes even catering exclusively to that, and her music has suffered. She really needs time to herself, work with new composers and arrangers, try out new staff, discover new aspects of herself as an artist.

By the way, I didn't mind Rainbow so much :) It was a mess of an album in terms of the arrangement and style of its tracks (it lacked musical direction), but it had very good songs. I don't mind the English. They added a quirkiness to her music (Real Me) that really wasn't there before.

Just a small point: I think having been a fan of her music for such a long time, my experience with regards to her music is a bit different. I've grown up with her, I've gone through years of my life with her, I've gone through milestones with her, and that definitely colors what I think of her music.

I didn't "grow up" with her (I was already almost 16 when I first heard her) but I've definitely gone through milestones with her music... several major relationships, high school graduation, my first job, my first child. So I can definitely relate to that. I've been a fan since the first Trilogy came out, so I'll certainly always be nostalgic for the LOVEppears/Duty era, but I try very hard to be objective, lol :P

But yeah, the RAINBOW era was the first time my fandom started to falter really... but I recovered, and to be honest I'm in it for the long haul now and everyone knows it, lol :) Every now & then our fandom is tested. Mine was tested in late 2002-early 2003. It survived. lol :)

I started listening to her when I was still in high school (around the same time the trilogy came out) and, well, I still consider myself in the process of growing up. It never ends :) Yes, it's hard to be objective especially since the Duty/I am... era for me was very important musically speaking, but I'm able to say that My Story is by far my favorite album.

I agree, it's perfectly natural to have your fandom tested (which I believe is happening to me right now), but if you survive, your faith in Ayu as an artist will always come out stronger. I really hope that happens. But heaven knows I am definitely in this for the long haul. Ayu is already a major part of my life. It would be unwise and ridiculous to let that go so easily.

In my opinion it hasn´t been a certain time.She went downhill after I am....until (miss) understood, and then from Secret to GUILTY, even if all the albums are great for me.

It started getting bad at around Rule/Sparkle....and its been worse ever since.....cept Ballad/You Were... which is like the one exception.

Well now that I think about it, it really started going downhill for me when she was involved in that drug scandal, reportedly snorting substances and when that "scandalous tape" surfaced...

Lol.

That complain part wasnt really about you, I was commenting this whole 'past ayu is better' syndrome I noticed Ayu fans have. That's all, but I support honest expressing ofcourse, just... I had to comment that.

Well, maybe if their "past Ayu is better" attitude is without reason, then go ahead and take issue with it :) I hope I've at least been able to substantiate my side of that argument.

Yeah, I don't think there's anything wrong with having that opinion as long as you have your reasons for it. I thought I was one of those people for a very long time until RnRC - I haven't been so excited about an Ayu album since "I am...", honestly.

To fully explain or construe when Ayu's career went 'downhill' depends on a person's subjective definition of the term. I for one feel the word 'downhill' in this context refers to when her sales plummeted. But I guess I'll comply to this thread.

In regard to her music career, I find that her albums are either hits or misses. For example, I simply adore 'Rainbow' but I feel that 'My Story' is the worst album she's ever released. Adding to that, I think that 'Miss-understood was one of her best albums, but then again I utterly detest 'Secret' but I love 'Guilty' to death. 'Next Level' was interesting while 'R'n'RC' was too monotonous.

What I'm trying to illustrate is, I find there is no sufficient overall cohesion in her works. So I can't really say whether or not her career has truly reached an inferior level.

Lady~Deviance, I hope it is clear in the first post that the context within which I am trying to create a discussion is the quality of Ayu's music and not her sales :)

Oh, poor My Story. You are seldom loved :P Granted, I had to listen to it numerous times, with a really good sound system, from beginning to end without skipping or rearranging the tracks, taking pains to understand the songs in untranslated Japanese (which I recommend to anyone; the specific words at which the music or her voice shifts, changes, breaks, registers emotion, everything so carefully chosen, it adds so much to the listening experience), and allowing some time for the music to seep in, to fully appreciate the nuances and depth of the album.

For me, it never went downhill. Enjoyed her songs when I discovered her nearly 10 years ago and I still enjoy her songs (old and new) just as much if not more even now.

Sure, she isn't pushing herself as hard as she was a decade ago, but I feel that this is more because that's what she wants. Watching and reading all of her interviews, it seems like she's simply proceeded through her albums in the same way from the very beginning (well, not necessarily ASFXX, but more like LOVEppears, haha.) though recently she seems to have gone through a lack of inspiration for GUILTY and NEXT LEVEL, only to get it back during Rock'n'Roll Circus. (I remember for GUILTY, one day she just wrote like 5 or 6 tracks' lyrics because she had this revelation that she just HAD TO SING or something like that...)

I sort of agree that she hasn't exactly been trying to push the envelope when it comes to her music, but I feel like since she's kind of doing what she's wanted with singles/albums as always, that's good enough for me. (But then again, I've liked almost everything since I listened to For My Dear... and teddy bear as a kid, haha.) Even though she isn't the face of innovation or constantly transforming as she used to, she's still her. I would argue that she is more "Hamasaki Ayumi-ish" now than she was before and after all of the transformations of the past (and the sort of lost-phase that was GUILTY/NEXT LEVEL imo), she's found herself. The real Hamasaki Ayumi.

But that's just me, I guess. In saying that she should do this or do that, I think people are essentially saying that she should not be herself and be this "ideal" version of herself, but I feel that she's just been herself this entire time... and isn't that kind of why she became a singer in the first place? To find a place to call home and find herself?

I think what people forget is that A LOT of people hated RAINBOW when it first came out. I, personally, wasn't a fan of her yet but I knew a lot of people who were and stopped being a fan because of this album.

THIS! Like most artist will only work with people for like an album or 2. She's had the same staff for a long time, not to mention instead of finding new "ground-breaking talent" she been frequenting the same Composers/Arrangers since 1999 which results in very boring songs. I mean seriously does need to keep working with CMJK, HIKARI, DAI, & HAL?

I think she's really blurred the line between Ayumi Hamasaki "THE BOSS" and Ayumi Hamasaki "THE FRIEND." She probably doesn't want to fire any of her staff because 1. she's grown too close to them 2. She doesn't want them to be out of work and 3. She doesn't want to fire them and have them hate her. I think it's pretty ridiculous how big her entourage is. Even big-ticket western artists like Beyonce or Mariah Carey don't have entourages that size.

I'd say Secret. That imo was her last best album (as a whole). I love some tracks here and there on post-secret albums, but none of them really work, for me. I feel like if she took the time to start composing, and arranging, and not release an album every year, she'd have many more masterpieces. Sometimes it seems as though she's releasing an album every year just to keep that title of being able to say that. She needs to slow it down, from the very first album, she's needed to slow it down.

About RAINBOW: People still hate it. That hasn't changed. Though MY STORY was one of those albums where older (overseas) fans left at the time and newer fans embraced that album. It's kind of weird, imo.

I think Ayu is just really comfortable with her staff. They understand her and are able to create whatever she wants to her liking. I'd prefer that she work with more than 3 or 4 arrangers, but I think that because they're so versatile, (the good ones anyway) she doesn't feel the need to switch things up. Same thing goes for composers too... I mean the only new face that composed something for the latest album was Hana Nishimura, and that was just for one (two) song(s).

To be honest though, I don't know if she's ever been all that adventurous with her composer/arrangers. She has many where she has only worked with them a few times. You know, I kind of wonder if one day she'll get a tape of random composer demos (that she likes) a la Liar and use a bunch of relative unknowns, haha.

You hit the nail on the head.

Anyways, I was constantly impressed and pleased with her music until GUILTY. It is still my least favorite album. I also didn't like NEXT LEVEL much. Moreover, I really didn't like the photoshoots, album art, music videos, ect. during those album eras. So two albums like this in a row and I started to feel it went "downhill."

I did, however, very much enjoy RnRC and I've got a feeling of satisfaction back at least.

I'd be very happy if she did that, so long as it didnt all sound the same, lol.
Im curious as to why you define her current work as the real Ayumi Hamasaki. Care to elaborate?

I think what's important to understand is that I think even still Ayu has trust issues. When Banchou left her earlier this year, she was kind of distraught on Twitter, and wasn't the usually happy self on twitter. It took her how many years to change her art team?

It all stems back to what she said very early on in the career, when she was doing the interview for super tv. She said she can entrust no one with her work, so she does everything herself, except that which she cannot do, like composing songs or choreography. But in the end, she even took on the composing for herself.

But in the end, even composing became a chore for her, and I think she said around M that she wasn't composing because she wanted to, but because the songs that she had with demos weren't the sounds she wanted to make. And by endless sorrow, she had gotten completely tired of composing.

It took her almost 5 years after I amm... for her to declare on CNN that she had finally found a team that she relied on, that worked for her, and that she could give the work to them without having to do everything for themselves.

I think for her to fire the entire entourage, and then get new ones every year would be extremely damaging to her confidence, and she'd once again decide that she would need to do everything, and then once again become tired...

I think this is the change of identity we found in Ayumi Hamasaki. Before, she overlooked everything, and she did everything, and even in Kanariya pv, she did the makeup for the actors... but as the years went on, she found the same people she could trust and put her faith in, and that was something I think she needed. Of course, she overlooks everything now still, but she has the support team she can rely on that she obviously didn't in the time of Concert Tours, Dome Tours, etc.

It's not as easy as those three reasons you mentioned, and Ayu is a human like the rest of us, and she is still not an adult in her mind. She can't clearly make business decisions if it affects the people around her...

But I disagree about needing new composers. What about the artists who compose everything themselves? It's the same kind of concept... she doesn't need new composers, because new composers will mean a loss or change in the sound of Ayu that may repeat the drastic change Rainbow had in people... I think she just needs to find something to sing about that she hasn't sung about before, that really hits us again... she needs to take risks with her vocals again, and show us the screaming voice she had before, even if it's not technically the best, it showed us the emotion behind what she was singing...

For example, I really really love still alone, and many people hate it because of the shrilling she does... but I think it shows us the emotion she had at the time, and it really strikes to me...

And I don't really want her to work with Komuro, because he's a scandal waiting to happen... -_-

Why do people act like taking a thousand yrs to make an album will result in masterpiece. :P It doesn't work that way.

Also real ayumi hamasaki? She's always been ayu. She just changes and grows. Now anyone can elaborate her need to be marketed as some fake product in her early career. But even if she was kinda forced to do stuff its still her

And I think some of u guys are really exaggerating on the lyrics department. Like if u hear so and so u fixate on it way too much
Ayus has written on various themes the past three albums that have been able to touch me and make me think.

I think its better that I became a fan in 2008 so that I could look at all the albums (GUILTY and earlier) at once. And not as if I grew up in these eras

Also question? Is there like super sky high standards for ayu that people don't give other artists. Like for me even a few of my least fav ayu songs still own most of the songs I've heard in jpop or music in general. But I guess I can never understand thinking certain so many songs from artist X,y,and x are soooo genius and original but ayus works are garbage
For me she's still on such a higher level than the average artist.
Like an artist who obviously releases a bunch of similar generic pop songs is okay. But if ayu releases two similar songs its an abomination?
@.@ ayu fans can be very ironic XD

Lalala~ poor ayu. Such a shame so many fans just can't enjoy her stuff as much anymore

Actually, I love RAINBOW. She hasn't gone downhill for me, but there are ups and downs. I don't love everything she does, but I don't hate any of it. So far, for me, the worst period was (miss)understood, with the exception of HEAVEN. She completely bounced back with Secret though. No worries.

I kind of wish she would stop using Tetsuya Yukumi and Yuta Nakano, or at least not as much. They're really good, but come on, sample some other people! Anytime she uses Kunio Tago, I love.

Yes, Ayu will be Ayu. She's a bit of a control freak, but I can understand her wanting things to turn out well. She also said in that CNN interview, "I want to be able to say it was my fault."

It doesn't matter how long it takes to make an album or single, really--all that will have accomplished is wasting time. You guys have to understand, Ayu is so fast-paced, as most of you know :yes She is comfortable with her pace, shouldn't that be enough for everyone? Ayu is quick, so naturally her release pattern would reflect that~ She will move very fast; that's just how she is: single, single, single, album. Bam, bam, bam. Add a tour and a-nation, and that's just Ayu~!

As for her lyrics going downhill, that's what got her where she is now! She's mainly known for her deep and touching lyrics. <3 I don't understand why people think her lyrics aren't good anymore... She writes how she feels...no one has the same feeling their entire life, right? So Ayu's lyrics are always different, and they always amaze me :heart If you guys want to see lyrics that all sound the same, just listen to Western music (>_>) It's always the same: "Oh my gf/bf left me I'll go get drunk now" or something of that nature :/ Ayu's lyrics are deep, touching, and half the songs on GUILTY (which everyone seems to hate for some reason) make me burst into tears. Ayu's newest albums are actually some of my favorites, tbh. (m)u (my #1 fave), Secret (amazing album), GUILTY (#2 fave), and RnRC all have a spot on my Top 5 favorite albums. NL was awesome too, it was very fun and techno sounding <3

I don't think Ayu's ever gone downhill, she's just changed her style and tried new things. Funny, most people here say they like Ayu's changing style, yet they hate experimental songs: Bold & Delicious is an example of that :P

When she does have deep and touching lyrics it good, but in particular to NEXT LEVEL, those lyrics felt extremely impersonal. They were more like telling us how we should live.

I don't want stupid lyrics like that lol :laugh
I was just saying that most of her lyrics sounds the same lately, except for few songs. Like Microphone, one of her best lyrics since years in my opinion.
As I said, I love Ayu because her lyrics are really meaningful and deep but she keeps talking about the same things.

Lol is there something wrong with that? :P she's not telling us to go kill people.
I love ayus lyrics like that. in a more ominous tone sometimes too

Ayu inspires me that way. As opposed to talking about herself. I personally cannot releate to memorial address for example. But her songs that are more informing I adore

@koshka: I just don't get how all her lyrics are sounding the same the past few yrs. Examples please? That vary out of more than 5-7 songs? Would be helpful
I think ayu is good at elaborating on different facets of things. Its lovely :P

@captain: I agree with a lot of what u say :yes

Let's use GUILTY...the lyrics of talkin' 2 myself...some of my favs when u try to understand the deep meaning of them. Same for GUILTY and Marionette. Fated. Beautiful. MY ALL. Perfect in showing off the beauty of her lyrics. Untitled was so sad lyrically focusing more on depth
I don't understand when people say guilty is completely uninspired as to me it contains some of her most powerful messages

And NL? I could go one about rollin' XD anyhow I just want my examples of similar lyrics

The standards that most of the commentators are referring to are ones that Ayumi set herself for herself. I didn't read anything unreasonable in anybody's comments and no one said that its ok for other artists to release generic crap and not for Ayumi. But obviously since Ayumi started out on such a high note fans will expect more from her. How is that ironic?

I could never fathom why so many individuals held such disdain for that album. Oh well. You certainly can't win them all.

I can reason with what you are saying and trust me I feel the same way. :yes After some time, I've come to the realization that in Ayu's case "slow and steady wins the race" does not comply with her agenda. This formula might work for Hikaru Utada or for example, but for Ayu I guess not. Avex probably figured out she's stuck her feet in the water too long to take them out now. I always thought the fact that she is incessantly releasing albums was going to hurt her career in the long run. I only say this because fans expect so much from her with every album she releases. And when an album does not meet their standards they promptly demand her to re-evaluate her career. Case in point, her 9th album Guilty. I've never heard or seen fans bash an album so maliciously in my life. :no

Many have stated that fans have been given so much from her over the years and because of that certain followers have now become almost immune or uninspired by her music. I'm sure others on this forum including myself can attest to bearing such feelings. I cannot even recall the number of times I've heard former fans of hers on other blogs and forums complain and bash her because they just grew tired of her 'same old song and dance' if you will. And a majority of them claim these feelings spawned after the release of Rainbow or My Story. Mind you some of these folks are former die hard fans of hers.

I've always believed that scarcity would build up your image over supersaturation, but in Ayu's case however... I'm not so sure. :shrug

I got exhausted reading this discussion.

^ you and me both hun. ;)

Okay I get it. High ayu standards. What I'm asking is something to difficult to explain apparently
I'm barely referring to what I'm only reading on this particular thread...the comments on ayus originality yes and many say this is why her music is not as enjoyable. However I've been here long enough, lurked enough artist threads, visited a few other forums like jpm for example and realize certain people do seem to act like some of the artists they listen to are on this high standard and never complain about originality and taking risks
Its ironic to a person of my tastes to see fans of those artists and groups complaining that ayu doesn't do certain things when I see what they're into and wonder...quite a bit....
I assume ayu just has ayu world. And if its not as good as other stuff in ayu world it doesn't compare to other artists I suppose
:3 it would help if I could list particular artists but that's not a good idea and I'm sure someone will not be too appreciative
Many ayu fans can really dislike certain facets of one song. Boring lyrics. Repetitive. Uninspiring. No effort. Rushed. Typical
g. And then I look at their new fav song lol ah~ u sure that's really what's wrong with it
But all in all its just my super picky taste against many peoples ability to tolerate the more generic

Its simply the fact that fans of other artists are perfectly fine with listening to bunches of generic music but when it comes to ayu its just all in bad taste, even though u could barely call the majority of her songs nearly as unorginal (but somehow the definitions for what is original and etc always change for ayu)



I still don't feel I did a good job at explaining myself. Do u understand me? I barely understand myself ugh. Why do I talk like I have an IQ of 2.
Ugh~

A little edit (hopefully no one writes anything yet): ayus not the only artist with fans who do this as there's a few other artists with mega-standards too. There's nothing wrong with doing that for any artists. Its just interesting to see how some fans operate when u get them around another artist. Like completely different fans. I think it would make more sense if some didn't say ayu was getting generic and just admit they don't like it as it is as it looks so hypocritical to see what else is "not really generic")

I think some people are forgetting that Ayu is not a musician. She never has been and I don't think it was ever her intention to make songs that are amazing and something new all the time. I actually recall her saying in some interview that she would never make a song like that just for the sake of it...And about her getting new composers, why? The compsers/arrangers she has right now aren't just there because they are her friends, they are there because they make the kind of music Ayu likes to sing. They became her friends BECAUSE of that.
I do agree that there was more raw energy in some of her older songs, but she had just as many generic songs back in the day as she has now.

I think part of what has happened is that her music has become clearer musically; her sad songs are sad, happy songs happy, angry songs angry etc. Where as in the past they were more all over the place, as if she didn't know exactly what she was feeling. That actually shows personal growth to me; she knows what she is feeling and can deal with.
About her lyrics, I think some of my all time favourites have come out of her recent songs- talkin'2 myself and rollin' particularly stick out to me. They hit me so hard when I first read them...Even now they wow me, they are just so spot on. count down has amazing and very personal lyrics as well. And RED LINE are probably some of her best ever. Simple, beautiful and full of power. I don't care that she writes about the same themes, those are the things she connects with, that represent her. I'd rather that than her just writing abunch of nonsense just for varieties sake.

God, too many words. No one's gonna read this:P

I have to say that I'm happy the way this thread is going, with a few execptions it's mostly been mature discussion when threads like this have so often turned into insult fests in the past.

I agree with all of this. Its perfect :yes too many words? Nah. Its perfect
^___~ I don't evem have to elaborate on what I agree with for the sake of not sounding redundant

(And yeah the thread is progressing maturely. Hopefully I'm not one of those exceptions ^^'

^ Not at all :). I think you've been very eloquent in expressing you're thoughts and I agree with them in full.

On a vaguely related note: I just listened to meaning of Love piano version and it's sooo much better than the original! It's not as sweet and pretty sounding and the emotion really comes through in her voice, which was mostly lost with the original arrangnement. The piano is absoloutely gorgeous too. I actually got goosebumps haha.

Funny story that I think kinda relates?

My mom saw the lyrics to For my dear... and thought they were sad and like Ayu was talking about wanting to die... Well anywho, I thought back to this thread about you guys saying she should go back to a depression to release good songs. (I understand you were being sarcastic) Well, I was just thinking I never thought about any of her songs that way, like she was depressed. With the exception of POWDER SNOW. Hm...

That was a sidenote, but it got me thinking, that I like Ayu's lyrics better back then. Because I think it's hard to understand what she's really thinking. You can turn those lyrics into anything you want to. Or at least I think so. What I'm saying is, you can relate them to anything or any one of your own feelings or experiences. I don't get that... "vibe" with her newer lyrics.

That's how I feel... so maybe people feel like that too?

That's not really my main thing though. My reason for liking her older songs is that I thought they stuck out more musically. Her last song to stick out to me was Mirrorcle World. I mean by having a memorable melody.

There's nothing wrong with any of that. You can feel her lyrics, songs, melodies, music, etc were better then or now. What I can't stand is when people think someone else's opinion is wrong and starts mocking it. I'm not saying I want Ayu to "go back into a depression". Those are just the lyrics I relate more to. I would still call myself a fan even if I listen to her older works more or only them.

You guys are saying Ayu keeps growing, well she is. So she'll grow out of what she's doing now too. She'll always be changing because she's a person. Maybe one day you won't like her new things, and you'll listen to what was released in 2010 more. Who knows? It's all preference, so I don't think anybody's opinion on what was her best work matters. It's all different.

Well, it took me all of that to get to that one point. It's... if you think her music has gone downhill, then it has for you. Nobody should tell you you're wrong and vice versa.

@kagami: its weird but I prefer that version too. I usually don't. Its just perfectt in that simpler way

@xlitaxI think this thread has been well off for the most part because most of us understand that point and that there's no making someone dislike something or making someone like something else :yes
...And I understand what ur saying about her lyrics...although I feel like after observing them too much a lot of her messages have become clear. But as kagami said I think she's improved in the fact that she can get her point across more clearly. And I don't mind that. Less work for me to do. Same emotional impact in different ways.

The point isn't to trash Ayu and say that she is stupid and blah blah blah. I mean, for many she just isn't putting out as much good material.

so like, I'm not really gonna read everything or reply to everyone...cause...all this stuff has been hashed to death...

I'm just gonna say Secret, because that's when I feel she first started to develop this...formula, style whatever, that defines the way she makes music now...Although, I have come to believe that a lot of it has to do with the people around her...and the fact that, she loves to keep her people around for far too long a time, and no, I'm not just talking about Kazu.

In any case, I have also come to believe, after much convincing from someone else, that her music started losing it's complexity in its technical aspects around MY STORY...but I personally like that style, and I think she had a nice balance for (miss) understood...perhaps the best balance...so I'm gonna say Secret.

While I like her songs now, I do miss how her older music had really interesting arrangements that were kind of unique in their time. I remember when I first heard them, I didn't know music could sound like that....and well, after all this time drifting and dabbling in different styles of music, I still haven't found anything that quite sounds just like the old Ayu, say LOVEppears-I am......which I find interesting in an industry that...well...likes to "mass produce" sounds.

I mean come on...how many morning musume sounding female groups are there out there.

IMO people just prefer some phases of her over others, and when they started disliking what she is doing, they say her music is getting worst as it was an universal fact, and not just a personal opinion...

I really disliked rnrc, IMO it's her worst album since My Story.... people who liked My Story and RNRC are wrong? Not really...On the same way, IMO Next Level is one of her best works to date, both in sound and lyrics... people over here seens to hate it, but I love it...

IMO the problem is that much people are not seeing her as a human being that express herself through music, but as some spiritual guide, saint or demi-goddess... Her job is not to save or inspire or whatever people, her job is to release whatever she feels like to, and touch people who have similar feelings at that time... She is not releasing those albums to her fans, or to her staff, or to all of you... she is doing it for herself, as it's made very clear every time she says how much this is the only reason why she finds her life worthy

Yes, I agree with this statement. I think her most creative years musically were her first few albums, but I felt that she kept that going at least somewhat until Miss Understood. Secret has many tracks I love, but I do think things started to go downhill somewhat. These past two years though I feel have been especially bad; I think that Moon/Blossom is her weakest sounding single ever released - neither song grabs me at all. And I also feel that with the one exception of Don't Look Back, the album tracks on RNC are her most forgettable ever even though I've tried a lot to get into them.

I'm still kind of surprised everyone has a full thesis prepared for this subject.

^oh, we could write books on this subject.

Next Level, I hated all of it, GUILTY was the last album with really strong tracks, havent heard Rock n Roll Circus yet (about to DL it).. but she is still an amazing performer..

The last album that really felt AMAZING to me was Secret, (m)u was even better, MY STORY was the last one that I felt was complete in terms of theme, cover art, and music that went along with it..

I hope Ayu has another I am.. or MY STORY up her sleeve someday