They forgot ayumi......
 

http://www.tokyohive.com/2011/01/mus...s-of-all-time/
A list of the top idols then number one is smap I think with 32 million albums sold ..... Ayu has 50+ million albums sold In japan

Ayu is not an idol.

Artists and idols aren't the same thing in Japan.

^then at this point, what is Matsuda Seiko doing there? :eyebrow

Matsuda was originally an idol, wasn't she?

I mean, Utada Hikaru, Koda Kumi, B'z etc aren't on this list either.

From wikipedia:
If i got it right, Idols are multimidia celebrities whose image and life style has a bigger impact than their works...
Maybe they considered that Ayu's career is music focused instead of multimedia (she doesn't act in dramas and movies, she doesn't have a tv show anymore and even if she has some photoshots, I don't think she could be considered a model), or that her work has a bigger impact than her image or life style...

But Ayu acted in drama, she was a model before singing. She had AYUREADY as a TV show.

^That was years ago though. Right now she is a musical artist and not so much an idol.

But she doesn't do that now or as actively as let's say... arashi.

Ayu acted in drama.... when she was nobody
Ayu was a model... when she was a nobody

And Ayuready was shortlived and already resting in peace...

"Idol" in that sense, is not a title, but a profession... u can be a singer, a lawyer, a doctor, an idol... She had a short lived unsuccessful career as a idol, so, she can't be counted as one...

Idol in that sense is something closer to Paris Hilton, who acts, sings, models, etc, but is famous just for the sake of being famous... Even if some people in the list like Yamaguchi Momoe are really respected as musicians...

I'm just glad to see Nakamori Akina in there at number 3 :D

but no, Ayu's not an idol singer and never has been

I knew somebody would open such a thread! :rolleyes

Ayu was an idol...once, long, long, loooo~~ng time ago!
"Morning Musume", "AKB48", all those JE groups and so on are counted as idols, but not Ayu!

ok ok! thanks for enlightening me. It was confused with the wiki definition. ^^

Thankfully, this is something Ayu SHOULDN'T be listed on.

But **** YEAH AKINA =D

I don't know, what others may think, but for me, Ayu is clearly an idol singer, and alyways has been. What is so different from her to Akina, just for example. Akina is way less of a usual pop singer than Ayu, always has been a very deep and mature artist when it comes to the atmosphere of her songs. I think the guy, that made this list, should rethink this again.

Besides that, I would say, the word "idol" is also something that everyone would put in another way for himself. You can idolize everything, if you take it this way.

I'm caught on this one. At first I wanted to say, "Hell no, Ayu's not an idol!" but I think that has more to do with my desire not to see her listed in the same category as AKB48 than anything else. It's an interesting question, though, because I don't think there is a specific definition for an idol (or at least a definition that is specific enough). We can easily identify what is an idol (i.e. AKB48, or Arashi, etc.), but it's harder to define what isn't an idol.
Sure, Ayu's career is very much musically-oriented, and based more on the quality of the overall experience/product that, say, AKB (I apologize to any fans), whose entire shtick consists solely of trying to be as cute as possible to appeal to the minutae of Japanese boys' interests. That said, however, being an idol has a lot to do with marketing yourself based on image and personality. I was thinking about this the other day, and to be honest, why is/has Ayu been famous/popular? It's certainly not for her voice. Her voice, generally speaking, is all right, but if you took away everything else, her career could not survive on that alone (she's no ayaka, Christina Aguilera, etc. - people who can blow you away with an acapella performance because of their vocal skills). It's really the whole Ayu "package" - she's a great performer. She knows how to put on an awesome show that combines a lot of elements, a lot of noise and glitz and kabam. A big element is her image: she's famous for her giant eyes, her style, her cute personality, and so on. Those are kind of idol-ish qualities. When she was younger (before she was famous), she was a sort of B-idol, I think (if there is such a thing), but now...it's difficult to say. Still, after writing all that, I'm tending towards the answer that no, Ayu is not an idol, or at least isn't an idol anymore.

Because you're clearly missing the point of what a Japanese idol IS. Ayu, as has been pointed out in this thread, is not an idol singer. They may have tried to make her one back in the day, but I doubt you can even consider her an idol in the Japanese pop sense today. Akina? Totally was an idol in her heyday. Now she's just fondly remembered.

Ayu is an idol in that others idolize her and can learn from her, but she is NOT an idol singer.

interesting :3 i guess i kind of understand why ayu isnt on the list ;p

@ShiSeido @Larien
This is the point... in this context, Idol is not a title like someone that is idolized, like a famous musician, etc... This is about "idol" the profession, an especific job that exist anywhere in the world, but that in Japan is called "idol"

Idols have a mold, they have a huge marketing team crafiting the image and character they will portray.... Some studies even compare them to the geishas, as women (and sometimes, men) that are trained to have a perfect image, to have several skills and to become flawless entertainers...


Using the definition of the word, Ayumi is for sure an idol... a pop singer that have an huge influence on pop culture, from fashion to video games, idolized by their fanbase... Like Michael Jackson, Madonna, Britney, The Beatles...

Using the definition of the japanese professional, she isn't... She doesn't follow a mold, she doesn't follow a script, and even if her voice is not amazing, the biggest points of her career are her personal lyrics and her power as a performer (that has less to do with the amount of flash, and a lot to do with her stage presence and energy).

Ayumi even criticized the idol industry on her career, twice... both in Sparkle and alterna videos...

I think ayu is an idol as well as artist too..
so actually, i wish i could see her up there on the list..

See, the funny thing, I don't see SPEED as idols; I see them more as artists than idols.

I don't know how to really describe the difference of an idol and an artist, but one big thing is the control of their career and image; I think as an artist, actor, or full-fledged whatever, you have more control over your image than an idol, per-say. I think the multimedia impact has a difference too; idols are usually PLASTERED ALL OVER the place (TV shows including dorama and variety shows, advertisements, photobooks, concerts, their music, radio, etc.) and are usually seen as "available to the public," if that makes sense.

Basically, one can fantasize freely about an idol as they usually aren't supposed to have love interests, while an artist or actor has more control over their personal lives.

It's hard to explain...

I have talked about "idols" with a friend of mine who is a fan of Arashi. She said that Arashi is an idol because most of them act in dramas, movies, have their own variety shows and what's more is that they are out to entertain their fans by doing weird things like cross dressing or eating weird stuff in their shows.

ayu doesnt do all of that. I agree with what Andrenekoi said. Ayu acted and modeled when she was a teenager and not when she became a singer. Ayuready is now defunct.

I guess anything before 1998 can be nullified? haha..

Ayu is muchx1000 more than an idol.

Me too.:) I never really think of Akina and Momoe as "Idols", but technically they are.

As for the "what qualifies someone to be an idol discussion." In general, idols do not write their own music (although there are some exceptions) and are well known in general, not just well known for being singers. They are known for their personalities, tv shows, movies, stage plays, photo books etc, in addition to music. Music is just one aspect of their career and not necessarily the main feature.

I'm surprised to see SPEED up that high on the list though because outside of their music, as far as I can recall, they didn't do much in the way of tv shows, movies etc. I also find it a bit baffling that they have Kahala Tomomi and Suzuki Ami on the list but not Namie Amuro (who had higher sales.)

I don't know why it would be considered insulting; all the people on the list are extremely hard workers that are actually pretty talented (some extremely so) in some aspect be it singing or acting, hosting etc. Being considered a top idol in Japan is not something to be ashamed of.

Yeah...like everyone said. Ayu is not an idol.

She's had idol days...but they don't really count for anything now...and considering she wasnt like...famous back then...no one pays attention lol

Yeah...Ayu doesn't even like...seem like an idol lol idk in my head, it's like, here's an idol, and here's Ayu....and...very very different.


I don't think being an idol is necessarily a bad thing...I mean, they're entertainers, that's their profession, and believe it or not, not everyone can do it...I just think...people would see it as insulting for Ayu because of how into her music she is and whatever...and that's understandable...somehow...idk

whatever, she's not the same lol

I missed Namie on the list too... I don't think what she does right now can be considered, but when she was with TK, she was an idol too...

I think you're also missing a point :) As andrenekoi said, being an "idol" is a profession and not whether someone is idolizing you or not. I am glad she isn't on that list as idols generally are a passing trend. I don't think there is anything insulting about being on the list though ^^

I agree on this one. Long time ago, and not a very successful one. And I doubt if even that would be considered as being an "idol" if you compare her back then to idols right now.

What Ayu was doing back then is the very definition of an idol. But Avex did everything they could to bury that and make her an "artist." Still surprised that somehow Namie isnt on the list though.

njanjayrp: I do not know if I agree that they are "passing trends". Some are and time still has to tell for people like AKB, but for the most part, the people on the list have been around a very long time and are considered famous and/or legendary to this day.

^This... I'm no expert, but at least those I know are legendary in Japan's story:

Pink Lady, Yamaguchi Momoe, Nakamori Akina, Matsuda Seiko and SMAP

I think, I would consider ayu as an idol in her early career (pre-Ma era). Of course if the definition of idol (in Japan) = profession, then she wasn't really an idol even in her early days. At that time she has already begun controlling her career with a certain degree. I believe that being an idol in Japan, you just don't have the right/permission for that.

And.. Momoe Yamaguchi should be an idol as well (she sang, she acted in both dramas and movies)... Then somehow she started controlling her music career (like the type of music she wanna sing, etc), so was she an idol after that transition? Btw I consider her as the most legendary female artist in the Showa era.

Yeah, the idol definition is actually quite subjective so its hard to pin down who exactly always falls under the definition or not because their definitely are exceptions. Momoe Yamaguchi is known as an idol even though as pointed out, in her later career she had more control over her music and image and Kinki Kids are on the list even though they do write a good bit of their own material.

@Andrenekoi: Also Checkers, Candies, Nakayama Miho, Shizuka Kudo, Hikaru Genji; honestly just about everyone on the list except for the newest groups. All of those people had long careers and many, many hits. Honestly I dont think Idols in Japan have ever been a passing trend, but an ingrained part of the culture.

LOL!!! :innocent

I guess @njanjayrp meant that idols career tend to be short lived, and that their fame is a passing trend... What isn't all wrong, but also works for jpop singers/band... Or even worst, work for most celebrities anywhere in the world... Once u peaked, u tend to be forgoten If u r not good enough...

^ yeah that's what I meant, but you're right.

While some of them are legends that doesn't make them relevant on today's market. That's what I was referring to. None of them will ever stay popular forever which makes them a passing trend in a way. Though when I think about it, there is hardly anyone who'll stay relevant forever so yeah I guess you're right.

There were also Matsutoya Yumi and Takeuchi Mariya, but the latter one wasn't an idol as far as I know plus she still sells tons.

Well, both are regarded as great musicians... Yumi composed some of the biggest jpop hits ever recorded (like Seiko's Akai sweet pea and Rock n Rouge) and even has an album among the 100 japanese best according to Rolling Stone magazine (her album is at 11°, btw)

i think so too . i dont think it was a mistake i just think ayu concentrate more on her music

Ayu's not an idol - she's more of a "purebred singer"...

You're right. but that's the same for artists too. People like Glay, L'Arc~en~Ciel and many others are legends in Japan but now they don't sell well as several years ago. That doesn't mean they're not famous anymore. And same is for idol.
Moreover, idol are usually more appreciated than artists in Japan ^^; probably because they do catchy songs and can be found everywhere, people can enjoy them in their tv programs etc...

ah lol, you were saying the same XD

Well... Maybe she is NOT an idol... But she's a LEGEND!!! Don't worry~ she's too good to be on that list LOL XD jk...