what do you think about downloading ayu's illegal stuff?
 

I don't know if there is a thread like this, but guys, what do you think?

I do it but try to buy as much as possible of it. I have around 25 Ayu CDs and DVDs right now.

For the whole moral argument:
First of all, piracy as a whole can not be logically deemed moral or immoral. You can personally dislike it, but there is no way to conclude purely from logic that it's entirely black or white.
However, you can roughly divide into logically OK and not OK sides and that can be done by asking one simple question: If the download was not possible, would the label be earning money?
If the answer is yes then piracy is stealing. The company loses money because people don't want to pay.
If the asnwer is no there is no logical argument against piracy anymore. The company does NOT lose money since the person would not buy it even if downloading was impossible. Nobody is harmed in any way. The only result is a positive one.

That said, that's the logical side. I don't care if you are personally for or against piracy, I just hate it when people go around trying to force their opinion on others, possibly even insulting them for it, when there is no logical grounds on those.

I have downloaded some B sides like the Ever Free remix because the singles are quite expensive if you're only buying for 1 song. I'd happily download the song legally from Amazon if they had Ayu's song available. If there's a few songs I want to listen to on a single it's worthwhile to buy, otherwise I'll download the odd song.

I definately prefer to buy albums etc though. I have also downloaded PVs which do not appear on albums - Dream On, Part of Me etc. Again, I wouldn't mind paying to download legally.

mi|kshake~

It is impossible for me to buy everything she releases, I just buy things that are really worth. If she sold the singles in my country and I could buy them at the music store in my town I would totally buy everything (not every single version and not too expensive things like remix box or a clip box which are not interesting to me)

I downloaded the 1st 4 years of her music when I 1st found out about her and while it was legal. Then they shut down Audio Galaxy and I stopped downloading except for the 99 cent purchases on a few sites. Since then I've bought everything I have and quit downloading. But I wonder if her decline in sales from millions to 180,000 on Love Songs isn't strongly connected to all the downloads. It's obvious from her weibo follower count that her sales should be atleast 1 million. As nice as Ayu is about it, people should really stop tweeting her about the downloading because all er managers are not as nice and could easily impose fines and jail time.

It probably had to do with that partly(but also with just a decline in fans, she is just not as popular as she used to be), but remember even without downloading not every fan will buy everything I think without downloads she'd probably be selling around twice as much as she does now. Many of her fans are in their 30s-40s, not the main crowd for downloading.

You might be right. But with a million+ on weibo and 600k+ on twitter following and not all are the same people, it is possibly costing her alot more. Plus I see tweets from people all the time that have lots of money to travel with but rather download her CD/DVD & especially her blu-ray releases than pay for them. And they are not doing it not to sample the product, they are doing it instead of buying. Which hurts her career and in no way shows the support of being the big fans they claim to be.

If I would not download Ayu album, I would never had chance to know her better than 2 songs on Kawaii CD (from manga magazine). We dont have Ayu albums in shops. Back then, shipping was very expensive. And it's still. When someone is putting Ayu album in my country on some shop/auction - the price is 3x higher than original one "because it's asian! it's from very very far away! IT'S A TREASURE!". Knowing Ayu (downloading) convinced me to BUY her albums. Now I have friend who buys a lot of things on shops and he always can add something for me and send me to my country.

Imagine there is no "download" feature. No internet. If I would be rich or just had a good parental situation (or good job) - I would buy music. But If I don't - I would buy a radio - and when if the situation was worst - I would not buy anything - I would buy food and clothes.

In fandom like this - "piracy" convice a lot of people to actually buy Ayu albums and even more - gadgets, dvd's etc. In "casual life" (casual guy who doesn't have an idol like this) it just works diffrent so there is no actual way to say is bad or good.

I buy music as long as it is available in the EU (and of course I also own Ayu CD's because I like to collect her stuff). I think there is no problem when you download music that isn't available in your country. I mean, most western fans woudn't even buy from time to time a j-pop release when they would not download most of the time. Because western fans came to know j-pop because of illegal downloads and for western fans it is way to expensive to buy all those CD's physically and we have no chance to download it legal. I can't go to amazon and download a j-pop release.

Most of Ayumi's music IS on iTunes though. Just saying.
I don't buy it from iTunes though since I don't support iTunes, the artist only gets 10% from them and 90% goes to Apple. Digital sales are very unfair when it comes to that, anyways, almost all the stores take a LOT for themselves and only give little to the artists/labels.

I think in this generation, 90% of the people who have came into contact with a computer does illegally downloads.
For me, I've download ayu's newest release. But that is because I've wanted to get it 1st instead of waiting for the slow shipment. So basically, it goes to the individual, whether they support the original release or not. I've download but I've bought all her release too (Except iTunes digital music).

I used to buy as much as I could, because I wanted to. I still like the idea of buying music; it doesn't get me as excited as it used to, but if I can afford it, I want to support the artists I like--I want them to feel that their hard work is appreciated. I want them to have number one albums/singles, receive awards, not for the fame and promotion it might grant them, but because as a fan, I want to give something back to them. I've Ayu's entire discography on a DVD disc (some ripped from CDs, some downloaded) that I can access at any time and put it on my iPod if I feel like listening to her, despite having paid for it in the past. MP3's are easier to access, and there are a lot of songs that I download, but wouldn't buy because I don't like enough of the artist's music, and so on. The internet makes it easier to access music. If it weren't for sites like youtube, or people who upload music, I wouldn't have ever found out about Ayu, would have never bought anything of hers, so this goes both ways--you gain some, you lose some.

i'm not rich enough to buy her releases
i only have some of her album n only one which japanese ver..
Even when ayu's album is on my local stores i'm still doubting to buy its price is almost 2 week for my daily food and baverage..lol...
I always support n love her eventhough by ilegal downloading..

@isthisLOL: +1

If I had a service that let me listen to her music, and I never had to download, omg, I'd be in heaven. I'd never download anything ever again.

And one that wasnt itunes, cause, gross. :shakehead

I'm lazy. I dont want to have to download stuff. Why would I want to use up my HD space? And lend my bandwidth? And personally, I have a lot of Ayu CDs and merchandise, and I really want to collect everything one day. I believe in buying because I want it and I love Ayu.

I only believe in this moral of "supporting the artist", when I know their sales are actually supporting them. So lately, when I've bought jpop stuff, it was for people like MAA, Mademoiselle Yulia, hiromi, emi hinouchi, etc. People who actually need sales :shrug


And please don't think that I'm telling myself this to make me feel better about "stealing". I really don't care. I don't think it's stealing, I don't think it's hurting artists like Ayu, and I don't feel bad about it.

I do think there are some artists it does hurt though. But, well, welcome to the real world. This is what the industry looks like now. Adapt, or die. And a lot of new artists are taking advantage, and imo it's great, because they reach more people than a physical CD and radio plays ever could.

I think most of us, discovered Ayu with illegal downloads. And I am one of them.
After get my job, I've been able to buy her releases. Not her whole discography because I have to save money for other things and I don't want to buy singles when I'll get the same songs on her album (unless they're special first press singles tho).

Illegal downloads are the easiest way to discover new music these years, imo. Especially from those artist who doesn't have a big fandom outside their country. So you will never get a chance to listen to them on the radio.
But buying CDs it's really pricey, not everyone can afford it. Luckily you can buy digital release with Itunes and other online stores and they're quite cheap, compared to physical releases.
That's kinda sad though. Soon mp3s will overtake CDs completely, and I'd miss the beauty of the booklets and to fill my shelfs with so many CDs and DVDs lol.

I don't buy cds, I usually buy a CD when I really know that I want it.
Other than that I download. Everyone downloads once in a while.
Downloading is not preventable. Even if they don't do it online it still happens.
Like buying a CD and burning it then give another person the CD so they can rip it.

I'm not against it because I do it, I don't feel guilty and I support artist by
buying their goods that I can use everyday life

TL;DR

totally fine with it.

I do it, but I don't feel like I'm in the "right". I just can't afford buying every single album out there of the artists that I listen to, but I support them nonetheless. Spending money on your fandom is not what makes you a good fan. Imo it's devotion and passion among other things :)

Generally speaking, if there's something I just worship, I try my best to save up and buy it, if I don't have the money for it right away. I have my favorite album ever, which is one of my most treasured possessions. As for Ayu, I have a rule to never buy singles, but I always try to buy her CD+DVD ver. albums. I started when I got GUILTY as a gift and I've continued up until Love Songs.

i'm fine with it because there's nothing we can do to prevent it and sometimes, leaked songs are from the company itself to promote it.
and not many of us have a lot of money that we can buy every releases, but if the price is affordable i'll try to buy it, but if it's not, i'll skip it.

ayu is not available in my country, avex does not care for making it available, because indeed it would have very poor sales. When it comes to overseas fans (specially from non-asian countries), I personally think downloads help more than hurt ayu's career. I believe the majority of them came into contact of knowing what the heck ayumi hamasaki is just because they had a chance to download her stuff. I don't think these majority of OS fans would get to know her at first because they stood by moral principles that they had to buy an album from some japanese artist they barely know about and would spend a lot of money with taxes and shipping thinking about supporting her sales. Once a part of them came into knowing her (through keeping several downloads and noit just sampling) they became fans and collectors and started buying her stuff. Of course maybe most do not, but at least it did add to a part of people actually giving her and avex extra incomes which they would probably not get if the "illegal" downloads weren't there to make her world publicity.

Blaming the low sales solely on the existance of piracy and illegal downloads is just ignoring that CD has actually become rather obselete for multimedia devices nowadays and that music industry completely failed to bypass this issue. The majority of people nowadays are lsitening to music through smaller portable devices, with or without earphones nowadays, and portable CD players aren't even advertised anymore nor you see people carrying them. Plus CDs take a lot of space when you can actually have a memory card or pen drive carrying a huge ammount of them without the need of switching anything (plus memory cards do not scratch but CDs do if not properly handled which can lead to permanent media reading problems). It's just how this all evolved, the CD prices are still the same, if not more expensive these days, and the music industry was not able to adequately follow the quick changes that hasppened in multimedia devices and how people listen to music in the past few years.

I run into huge stores that sold CDs in the past and that had huge sections for CD shopping, and their CD sections have shrunk almost to non-existance in barely 3 years or so. It was definitely not because of the downloads because honestly there was no "big boom of downlaoding" these past 5 years as there has been a "boom' with portable media devices.

I don't see any problem in downloading ayumi's stuff online & I do that for all the artistes that I support too

I suppose if my family owns an oil plantation or something , I definitely will buy every single thing my fave artistes release at the drop of the hat as per say but in reality that's not the case

There's more to life than just singles , albums & dvds of an artiste . When you're financially constraint , the priority to utilise $ to take care of a person's basic needs & not wants takes centrestage

it's kinda weird for me when people go I buy because i want the artist to know their music/work is appreaciated, or some fans go bablign about how much of the fans they are because they own every single piece she releases...it's not about how much you own really I mean I would buy the things I love from her in a blink of an eye if I had the money. Her stuff is very expensive to me. I'd love to have the real thing in my hands instead of the digital version, but the thing is CDs, merch and all other stuff is luxury for me and it comes not just for Ayu's stuff...

I try to buy when she releases new stuff, I own most of her singles since 2008 and albums, and I buy Jpop albums that I love,DVDs rare cases usually b'day money and merch is really never one shirt is good but I don't feel guilt dl'ing music in general XD, they are rich,famous I don't care tbqh

I'm absolutely fine with it. I download a lot, but I also own some of her singles and albums and even concert DVDs.

What I believe is that if ayu's stuff was available in my country, I'd definitely go and buy all her stuff in the local store, but since it's so hard to get her stuff, use Tenso, pay shipping, use EMS... tbh I'm not so eager to pay for shipping actually :laugh so I think I'll buy some her old stuff next time visiting Japan.

None of the stores in my city have any of ayu's singles or albums for sale. I live in one of the most known cities in Europe, but still... I downloaded all of her singles, remix-singles, remix albums, original albums, BEST albums and compilation albums both in MP3 and FLAC. When I finished the album and looked at all those files I felt REALLY bad. So bad that I went to the local CD shop and asked them if they were ever planning to sell anything from ayu's discography. Their answer was no because they don't have the right or something.

Okay so that didn't work out, I had no other option that buy it from the internet. (My parents are really careful with buying stuff on the internet for me because they're afraid that the Internet demons will take their money.) Now I have 'FIVE, M, A BEST II -WHITE- and Rule / Sparkle' in my room and I plan on buying her newest album.

I could also buy an itunes 20/30/50€ card to digitally buy ayu's stuff but that's lame, I want it psychically :laugh.

With other words I try to support her as I can but I cannot spend all my money on her. I'm kinda obsessed with ayu as I listen to her music almost each day, it makes me feel bad that I'm downloading her music but not bad as in 'I'm a terrible fan, I'm going to hell' or whatever.

I try to buy everything she does,sometimes it's impossible buy EVERYTHING.I usually don't download anything.I prefer to use sites like youtube/dailymotion to listen music and see videos(i'm referring to other artist).
I like other artist like namie amuro,alan,kumi...but i prefer to support my favorite artists AYU & tomoko kawase. Anyway,as i said,I usually don't download their stuff just use online sites.
Since i learnt how to buy in internet(2009),I have bought everything (except for 50S live S.) she released.And if i can i'll continue until her last day of her carer.
From tommy i only have 2 albums and 1 single,but is because she don't release too much and since i became her fan she only has released 1 single,but i'll continue buying her things until the last day of her carer as well (or until i don't like her).
To sum up,If you LIKE an artist,you MUST support her.When i say LIKE i don't mean like her music,i mean that also you love her style,her life style,her way of being,her way of work...

Well, I download illegally when I want to discover new artists and even with other artists I already knew.

But when I have extra money, I buy CDs because for me it's really different if I can touch it with my bare hands and stare the booklet.

I am not interested in buying or collecting CD's, because my MP3-Player does not care for physical copies. Furthermore I see no logical reasoning in buying digital downloads, either.

Avex earns a lot of money with concerts and merchandise, just like Ayu, and don't forget about commercials etc that are another income especially for Ayu herself. That is already more than enough money. If Ayu wants even more, she may as well apply for more contracts with companies like she did in the past.

If anything, I like to support people that really are in the need of some money.

I don't like occuping my space with stuff... I'm not all into buying stuff and needing to place it somewhere and taking care of it, so, I love having material on digital format.

I don't mind downloading stuff... If the artist is relevant enough there will always be people interested in buying the releases. Still, albums, dvds and music makes the labels rich, not really the artists, so, I don't feel bad for downloading considering it's not like that would have a big impact on the artist bank account.

Still, j-pop artists in general, and a big amount of artists in most conservative countries in the world still fail to understand the full promotional power of internet and downloads on one's career. You can download all the music and dvd u want, but u can't download the experience of watching ur favorite artist live, and live is something that really gives an artist money... Here in Brazil we have a good amount of top artists who offer their material for free on internet and sell out 15, 20, 30 concerts dates per month easily.

Also, the popularity of an artist or of their music also translates into tie-ins, another way of making a good amount of money even if sales aren't that expressive.

I feel terrible but I can't afford her stuff. I downloaded all of her albums but only purchased two. If only she didn't make good music... (and if I had more spare money!)

There are some artists--like Ayu--whose new releases I buy no matter what. Others I download first to see if it's worth the steep importation cost, then delete it if it's not.

My opinions on this have changed a bit over the years. I used to have a very black and white opinion about downloading music. Now I've become a bit more lenient, if only because companies like Avex has made it abundantly clear that they aren't moving into markets outside of Asia. If there's no consistent way to buy it legally, then... there's no consistent way to buy it legally. When artists I like do release material in the US (or in the UK when I lived there), I'll usually go out of my way to buy it to show that there is a demand outside of Asia. Otherwise, I stick to importing what I like and deleting what I don't.

I do still side-eye the self-proclaimed ~biggest fans~ who illegally download her entire discography--especially when they add some inane excuse like they're saving themselves for the Japanese version instead of the much more affordable Korean/HK or even local digital versions available. But I admittedly haven't seen much of that recently.

This is so hypocritical and ignorant. Like, do you have to buy something to be a real fan?

I show my "loyalty" by constantly listening to her music. I think this is what truly makes you a big fan of an artist.

In all honesty, though... Some people just don't have the disposable income to buy albums and whatnot. :/ In my opinion, you're a fan regardless of whether you buy Ayu's stuff or not.

Me, I prefer to buy Ayu's albums and support her. However, I am guilty of downloading her singles and not buying them. I see no reason to buy a single featuring two songs that will be on the full album I'll buy in a few months time. I do, however, buy singles that are not on her albums (A Song is born with KEIKO, Dream ON).

And that's good on you, I suppose. Though I would hope the cherry-picked quotation wasn't ignorant, and I certainly don't think it was especially hypocritical (seeing as I said my view of downloading music was largely swayed by availability). Agree to disagree?

For me, I read the combination of downloading everything while claiming to be holding out for purchasing some sacred ~Japanese version (when other options are available) as less a love for an artist and more a love for discovery. If that's how someone gets off, that's how they get off. Whatever. I just wish they wouldn't bother me about it. :shrug

Edit:
Re-reading my post, I suppose this is because I didn't explicitly link the two stipulations: downloading everything while chasing ye old Japanese Version windmill. To clarify, it's less setting some bizarre monetary threshold for fandom and more about the empty promises/threats I've seen thrown around various communities in my time as an Ayu fan (with the looming spectre of the self-fulfilling prophecy--lamenting the lack of local availability while not buying what's available...which, in my experience, usually takes the form of thinly-veiled exoticism and racism that makes the sudden invasion of my fandom especially annoying... which I suppose is the actual problem rather than the downloading.

...That was weirdly cathartic.)

Even with albums I buy, I still download it online because I don't want to rip it :laugh

And if out of an album, I only like 2 songs, I definitely won't waste money on buying it...

If it wasn't for illegal downloading, I wouldn't even discover Ayu lol

Depends, imo. If someone said they really worshipped her, but hardly had enough money to eat every month (thus no money for albums), I'd still call that person a huge fan.

I'm so tired of everyone's self righteousness over what makes a fan.

In my opinion, love is all Ayu would care about from any fan. And actually, I'd think she'd be happy with much less even.

But even so. There's nothing else I see that can make any fan any better than any other.

Same here. Thanks to illegal downloading i discovered her music, because you can't even hear a full song or pv in youtube (thanks to our avex friends)

I download everything I've already bought just in order not to ruin the original copy, that's it.

This.

Sorry, but I do download illegally. But there is a system I taught myself to decrease my downloads. As for Ayumi-stuff, I have bought the few CDs of her discography I love and mostly they were second-hand, a discount or the Hong-Kong version: because I am not able to pay the full price. I import the music from the CD to my iPod. But there are albums and songs which I also do like but I do not own them. I listen to these on the internet and when I have been falling in love with one song again.. yes, I do download it then. For new albums I always hope some legal previews could impress me. Yes: then I try to find a way to get the album. No: just download two or three songs you love.
Really, I would love to own her whole discography as well, but the chance to win the lotery here is a chance of one to some million.

Love your post!