Ayu's vibrato- Fake?
 

I wouldn't nessesarily say it's "fake" but on videos, her jaw and lips move up and down (and even on concerts!- A MUSEUM "forgiveness" namely) and when it's a "true" vibrato your mouth isn't supposed to move. Is this just showmanship or is she really doing vibrato incorrectly?

mmm I would like to know this too!

I thought...that when it's true vibration, you use your throat's power..but I think still, you move your lips too...

if it's fake...OMG!

Nah not fake as far as I know.

It is false. True vibrato comes from proper breath control and she wiggles her jaw to quaver the notes by changing the opening through which breath is released (imagine a recorder, you blow it makes a noise, you close different holes and leaves others open and it creates a different pitch, now just press a hole rapidly and it's about as close as you can come to a blatant picture of it) creating a -somewhat- similar sound but it wouldn't fool anyone who's taken a vocal music class.

hey, she may do it incorrectly, but it still sounds good, haha. :yes

^ I'm with you on this one, Delirium! Aside from the fact that it sounds forced, when you watch her perform live with this faux-vibrato, it looks pretty funny. ^^;

Generally it sounds good (not neccessarily correct) but sometimes she overdoes it and she soundsmore like a parody than a serious performer. I think the "worst" example I've heard is the Voyage performance in which she forgets the words (i see no mouth wiggeling though) and in the dearest performance from 2001 christmas. The strange part is that I really love those performances, althoguh I think her vibrato is totally out of control in some places.

^see...i think the more vibrato the better...i really love vibrato. maybe i'm the only one? :yconfused

Yeah, I really don't care if it's done correctly or not. What matters is that it sounds right so who's to say that this is the "wrong" way - it works for her. :)

I love her vibrato. =)

I also feel that the I am... era was the best. Kind of sad, thinking back about it.

Those who do true vibrato don't move their lips. But since I see a professional singer moving her lips, my personal opinion is that it depends on how people use their vibrato.

there's not really any such thing as "fake vibrato". i mean, there are ppl but that naturally have vibrato but itz really just something singers can use at their own discrestion(sp?)... if you naturally sing w/ vibrato, you can train yourself to lose it and if you naturally sing straight-toned (w/ no vibrato) you can learn how to use vibrato... i'm thinkin vibrato is just something Ayu has picked up in her singing and she likes it, so she uses it... i know alot of ppl whose jaw and lips and even whole head shakes when they use vibrato and they don't even realize it...

i like her w/ or w/out vibrato ^^

Her vibrato is too wide, yet too slow to be "vibrato", so the tone is actually shifting too much. Another problem is that she uses the same type of vibrato for most songs (if not all). Different genres of music should have different speed/vibration. And sometimes she does does it too frequently.

But nonetheless I'm fine with it. Althought I have to agree with everyone else who said this, that her I am era vibrato was the best.

neh. I know a few friends who move there jaw when doing vibrato.
I even do that shiznot.
(like, once a year, LOL)
And above - Vibrato MAKES a song to me.
Without it it would be like marching music...
(dum DUM dum DUM DUMMM )

i like her vibrato sometimes. with the lips and jaw movement, it sometimes makes her performances of the song more dramatic and effective, depending on the song. there's a rare couple of times where i think she overdoes it. i can't move my lips and jaw when i do vibrato ( i have a tiny little vibrato in my voice ^^") and i think it'd be interesting if i can learn how to do what ayu does, it's kinda hard to imitate tho. and if u notice, ayu never did that kinda of vibrato when she was young, when she was young, she had also a tiny little vibrato in her singing. but that's of course my opinion ^^"

I agree, her vibrato is not real vibrato, its just not vibrato. she still have problems with singin', in her debut she didnt know how to sing (just watch her first concert of 2000...I really cant hear it its horrible for my taste) and many people said: but its the beginning so its normal..not normal at all since there are singers that in their FIRST concert have PERFECT voice, well trained..if I were in that concert I would really go away after the first song (the first song is the one who give u more impact and maybe the most horrible of all the concert for the way she sang it)
After that I saw A museum...the way she sings A SONG FOR XX is damn much better than horrible A SONG FOR XX of Concert Tour of 2000...her voice is so damn good improved now..but her vibrato is just fake, she have to work a lot still to make a real one...in this world there are people with natural voice talent which are the ones who learn without many efforts and people who have to really work hard and I think she is in this category (that means she have to work more hard than many other singers)...she still have to work hard (dont forget in the beginning of career she used to skip vocal lessons but since she was not in the position to skip it since her voice was sooooooo bad..I really cant listen to TRUST album version...my hears cant stand it) we saw the results on her first concert...and second...and third...I think she did work hard to get better voice and to keep to be the "Most Popular Diva" of Japan and also we can see the results in her latests concerts...even thought most of her fans in Japan will listen to her even if her voice is horrible as 5 years ago because "blind" of love for her. She can be more better if she wants..but she just continue to overdo with her fake vibrato and it will ruin her voice...
Ok I went a little OT ^^ Sorry ^^
Anyway I like her now much better.

XD hehe. I know. Ayu's voice isn't professional like other singers. I also believe the vibrato is prolly fake..although i have no knowledge of vocals. But strangely enough, many still love her singing eh? haha

Thank you for saving me time :P Just to add on wiggling your jaw can cause the muscles to tense which is terrible for singing aside from as Delirium already pointed out is just durn inefficient. Some of you have said, "Oh I've seen so and so sing like this and they're professionals!" Ayumi is a professional singer, hell, people like Britney Spears are professional. Generally people apply the tag "professional" to a singer as is defined by, "people buy their singing." Once you have it made you're considered professional but that doesn't mean you're perfect and I've seen plenty who shun generally standard techniques because either a) they simply don't know how to properly use them or b) for the sake of preserving their own particular sound for a piece or c) that's how they want to sound.

Considering she had voice lessons in NY, pretty much -the- place to get singing lessons if any outside of LA if you're looking for world-reknowned trainers, she was undoubtedly shown how to do it, but I believe she has trouble with execution. Her performance of "Haru Yo Koi" at the Music Fair is one of my favorite performances of her aside from just being beautiful, for the most part she used normal vibrato so that her usual, "ahAHahAHah" didn't detract from her singing. Of course most other songs she uses the fake vibrato *cringe*

no way..
Ayu is not using a fake vibration...
That vibration is her voice....

What I believe that...
Ayu trained her self to do that vibration... for 7 years..her voice improves much... and her vibra also improves..
We know that she never used vibration on her debut album..
but along her 7 years to release albums...her vibration is finally shaped into the perfect one!

i believe there are no FAKE vibrato, singers move their jaw when using vibrato is just a HIBBIT and increase the effect of vibrato. Many of you miss one thing, there are TWO kinds of vibrato used nowadays by singers.

one uses breath to do which is powerful and deeper, just like opera singer, choir and the way that your school music teacher sing: the other one is using mouth and throat to trap/release the note which is less powerful but MUCH easier,and it is a TRUE vibrato which singing teacher taught me and she said if you are going to sing pop song , the second one is the most suitable while the first one will make the song become LESS emotional.

The one which ayu used in heatplace is the first one, in other song which in greatful day is the second one.

what you guys said has only concentrated on the first kind of vibrato, in fact there are MORE than one kind of vibrato.

ok, i DO have a vocal training and knowledge and i DO know that even if it is a learned vibrato, itz a vibrato that Ayu uses. also, those of you that stated this are right: throaty vibrato (like the kind Ayu uses) is very harmful in the long run and not a healthy habit for a singer. But look at Ayu's throat! there's a HUGE muscle there!

It's not vibrato if she has to move her mouth. And you're acting as if you're the only one that's ever had vocal training here- I've been trained for years and years and that's why I asked such a question. True vibrato is supposed to come from within your throat and you shouldn't even have to move your mouth.

once i almost fall off my chair! the super great RAINBOW performance with chorus and stuff, and special performance , with the full song, (i can't recall the channel.. but it was the only time it was sung full, i think)

she made the vibrato by moving the micro to one side and the other!!!

Ehm..
trust me singing using your throat is going to kill you throat and you will lose your voice entirely.....
good singer always sings using their stomach power...the breath that should be taken is from stomach... and to do the vibration is actually come from your stomach power too.. it's a better way than using your throat...

but you may see that it's looked like Ayu is always using her throat coz her throat seems like shaking when she sings or does vibras...but if she kept using throat power... trust me.. she will never do so many concerts in a week...So I believe that she's not using throat power to sing..

All singers are being trained to sing by using stomach power...
coz it's the best technic to earn a good voice as well as a good vibra..

so how can we learn this? is it really hard?
how can you tell if you have a good natural voice or not?

well.. as in my own view...
someone who can REALLY sing if he/she has a good rhythm along the singing, whether his voice ables to catch up the song's rhythm or not.. and also the intonation must be good as well... some parts of the song have the cresendo or decresendo part which you have to follow it in order to sing the song well

I'm not saying that you should sing exactly like the real singer .. but at least you know how's the music going as well as the ryhthm...
the music slow...you have to follow it slow.. the music fast you have to follow it fast.....

everybody can learn how to sing... it's just the matter, you like singing or not..
if you don't like singing you can't force to be a good singer...if you like singing.. Thanks God...you still have that talent inside you..all you need to do is just to practice in a good way...

good tip for learning how to sing well:
SINGING USING YOUR STOMACH POWER not THROAT POWER!

I'm not really a good singer but that's at least something I can tell you from what I've seen on my own singing lesson DVD...
I'm learning it my self too..

it's good to hear everyone can sing well as long as they practice!!

but it's hard to use stomach power when you don't have someone telling you how...sometimes i seem like i'm singing using my stomach and sometimes i use my throat... hard to control~~

but if you do keep training it..you will automatically using your stomach...
not good using your throat..it's hurting..you can only last for 3-4 songs..then your voice becomes harsh....

take the deep breath using your stomach..
your breath keeps inside your stomach..then you push your stomach up..and hold it...when you start to sing..you take your breath out slowly...and it will be turned out really good..and trust me you can sing more than 10 songs a day..hehe..

i don't think i'm the only one here with vocal training. i'm just saying what i know. i'm sorry if i came off like a 'know-it-all'. Gomen.


Vibrato is vibrato, whether itz from throat or diaphragm.

We are talking about vibrato. Sure, you SING from your diaphram and not from your throat, but VIBRATO is not from your air- if you used that, you would run out of breath after a measure or two. It's supposed to come "naturally" if you're a good singer and have had a lot of training- you're not supposed to try for it because trying for it makes you force it.

Knowing the rhythm has little to nothing to do with vibrato. Given you should have SOME sense of rhythm- but you make it sound like everything rests on whether you can hold a beat or not. And eventually if you practice the song enough, it doesn't really matter if you have a sense of rhythm because you'll have memorized the song.

But we're getting off topic. Ayu's vibrato, please, NOT singing in general.

Oh Lord, that is seriously the worst sound I'd ever heard. I refused to get A Ballads for that very reason. Her vibrato is better now, but I hate when she drags it out and it starts to sound like it's wavering really badly. It almost sounds like a kid wailing or something.

What do you guys mean by vibrato?

Well...Yeah I do agree with you Walking_proud...and I was telling what I know..sorry..hehehe.......
yeah..vibrato is naturally coming from your self..but still you have to practice how to have it....like Ayu did before...
Her vibrato is improving much lately..compare to her old album vibrato and her latest album(singles) vibrato...she's sure having her ultimate vibrato now...by training of course....and we actually can't force to make the vibra....but by what you've learned & trained, finally you can have your own vibrato...

Vibrato is like "ahh ~~~~~~" I don't know how to describe it in words..
like Ayu's "iiiiiiiiiiiiiiii........." know?

Yeah every singer are trained to use stomach to sing but Ayu didnt do it in the debut, thats why in some of the performance she used to lose voice...anyway I dont think its real vibrato she still need train she is not perfect not professional only because she is famous singer, avex also use often her 2 chorus girls for help her in "vibrato", did someone ever realize that?

as we know that...
She's not a good singer at all...and can be also said no talent at all....
When she became a model... she didn't know how to sing..then she went to NY for training ...and she made mini album/singles.. which in RAP Style....

But her strongest talent is on her lyrics writing..that's the most important thing..

As I listened to her PRIDE *MUSIC FIGHTER* her vibrato is so powerful and so great!!!...
as on CDL 04-05 when she sang acoustic version of some songs...her voice sounded perfect....

first of all. her vibrato in my opinion sounds great. like someone else said. who cares if its done incorrectly it works for her.its not like shes using some special drug or watever to make her voice sound good and for her to be able to have a vibrato. Whats the point of a vibrato? for songs to sound good right? so if she needs a little help by moving her jaw den who cares? it still sounds great! its like saying that the ppl who nead hearing aids arent really hearing correcty because dey need a hearing aid to help them. u cant call the way they r hearing it fake and incorrect just cuz dey need some help.(im not sure if dat made sense xD;;)

Second. If u dont like the song, DONT LISTEN TO IT! who cares if u cant listen to it? its ur opinion. u dont like the song. Great! den dont listen to it. no one is forcing u.__.;; ok i sound really really dumb but i dunt care xD;; im sry im making a big deal out of this but xD;; dats me!><;; besides, ur making the song sound really bad wen its not! it used to b my favourite song.><;;

Yeah... no matter what.. Ayu's still our Queen of JPop!! Now & Forever always... hehe..

AMEN TO THAT! ^^

You don't have to defend Ayu like it's life or death, we all like her or obviously we wouldn't be here; delirium was just saying that they didn't like a song by her and thought that the song was sung incorrectly, and it's fully their opinion, you don't have to defend it as if it were being slandered

Having had some professional training myself, I have to agree with people who've raised the point that Ayu's singing isn't a healthy style for her voice's continued strength. It really makes me sad to hear her straining and "throwing" the notes out when her voice has become brittle from overwork (when they make her sing too mcuh at the end of the year, for instance.)

That said, I do think she has her own style of vibrato that is closer to the enka style of what is called "delayed vibrato." If you listen to enka performers like Nagayama Youko or Kim Yon-ja, you will hear very similar sounds coming from them. They waiver between notes. Their vibrato is seemingly out of control. I have to say that it was too much for my western ears at the beginning, but I've come to really like it. I'm not sayin that Ayu has the same amount of professional training (enka singers start out as apprentices and really work on the performance and singing because they aren't necessarily idols to anyone) but I think that her vibrato reminds me of a more enka-like sound. Not that this is necessarily what she is going for... I think that it's more suited to a Japanese ear, though. My friends in Japan don't have any problem listening to it and thinking that it sounds okay (even nice-sounding.)Some of my friends say that her new singing voice (with the vibrato) is a great improvement. Some say that they prefer the old Ayu much to the newer voice.

My opinion falls somewhere in the middle. I do think that she has some talent that she has created for herself. Though it may not be the 'proper' way, I think that she has created for herself a very Ayu-rashii way of singing.

If you listen and watch Hikawa Kiyoshi's performances, he uses the same techniques that Ayu does. It was interesting to watch them singing together on her show. He sings with the same rolling, swelled vibrato.

I think Utada has a VERY fake vibrato, it sounds like she's shivering. It's just airy and fake!

Don't you all feel a bit silly going to war over something as little as discussing critique on a singer's voice? Everything said in this thread is tamer than a lap dog, professional and amateur singers are some of the nastiest people I've met in concerning one another. Drugs to create vibrato? :shakehead I hope they start making calculus pills if that's the case! If you xiliration honestly feel this way sure I'll discuss it more but if this was meant to just be an addition to the other posts at the top of this page, it all seems just a bit overboard. "AYU IZ PURFCT LALALA I CANT HEAR U, UR NOT A REAL FAN SOD OFF." Again I'm generalizing, but this attitude just seems really prevalent in any topic that remotely hints of Ayumi not being a goddess who farts rainbows and sunshine. Then other artists people enjoy are pulled in and generally insulted etc etc, it's all really silly.

You brought up a good point Hanabiwings, when I first listened to "Will" I was thinking of how smoothly she transitioned into the traditional singing style and then again, it all seemed perfectly natural for her to do so. With her song "Nothing from Nothing" the rap parts were just torture to listen to, but with her singing in the little intermissions of sorts it was very legato however it sounded like there was some aural tampering in the sound room to create the not-quite vibrato/echo effect.

I didn't bring up Utada to shut out the Ayumi conversation, I brought it up because I honestly don't like Utada's vibrato that much XD

oh my god...this thread make a BIG war...
please be calm and discuss it with big heart to receive other opinions
myself think that her vibrato is really nice...its unique and i can hear it nicely
maybe its wrong but its good..so whats wrong with it?
about utada...i'm totally agree that her vibrato is really plain for me and "fake" but who cares as long as that many fans still like her...

lots of ppl said that Hikki's voice is much better than Ayu's voice..
I also sometimes listen to Hikki's vibrato seems like straining her self up too..
I think Hikki has a fake high-pitch voice... almost all her voice on every songs like that..
and Hikki's vibrato sounds like Ayu's older album vibrato...

If that is what you guys call a "vibrato" then I don't get why some of you are questioning if it's fake or not? If Ayu does the "Ahhh~~~~" then it's not fake. How can a "vibrato" be fake anyway? If someone's vibrato doesn't sound good or even bad, it's still a vibrato and not "fake".

Anyway. You guys ask yourself way too much questions... -______-

o_O This is a weird thread....

Well, while I was never a singer, I did play trumpet when I was younger...and I remember I had trouble learning vibrato so one of my teachers would tell me to use an alternate technique...

So I think Ayu uses an alternate [albeit maybe not a healthy one] technique to use vibrato. Maybe she is not able to use the preferred method of vibrato but she used an alternate way.

Nonetheless, Ayu's voice is still unique and still her own. Whatever she does is up to her...

hmm i sing her songs like she sings it so u mean i have that skill? i have vibrato?? n~ nani wo mitai yo... cos when i sing i dont move my lower jaw like ayu did.. hmm vibrato? maybe... >_<

A vibrato can VERY MUCH be faked. By faked, I mean "not the correct way", or "forced", meaning that it's not a "true" vibrato (and since the opposite of "true" is "false" I naturally used the word "fake").

yeah..exactly like I just wanted to post... :)