[orbitalaspect]

I know you all dropped this topic, but I really wanted to give my thoughts on this since none of you really touched on my points of debate.

Originally Posted by Katsuyuki012

First of all, she is currently 40 and, as she said, she started considering retirement in her late ...20s. I am sorry but do I need to repeat? 20s! If it was the shock of becoming popular or something like that I would understand but no - in the interview, this motive keeps coming back in the span of her whole career. The only reason why she pursued was the dream she decided on, which was to give a huge final concert which happened to be her 20th anniversary Dome tour. After its huge success, she kept thinking of retirement but decided to make things even more interesting by...retiring during the 25th anniversary, release an album a year till then and keep touring. As much as I enjoyed Namie’s music and concerts this attitude is simply outrageous to me. She has made the image of a martyr. What kind of person, who supposedly likes their job keeps thinking about retirement for the whole length of their professional life?

In 1997, Namie became pregnant with her son and released a pretty shocking announcement that she was both marrying a labelmate and that she was with child. In 1998, Namie's mother was brutally murdered with an axe by her mother's ex-husband's brother, who then committed suicide. In 2002, Namie became divorced. Now, I just want to clarify this because for several consecutive years, Namie was by all context "embroiled in scandal" to the Japanese.

Ayu and Utada debuted in 1998, became massive stars in 1999/2000, and were in all respects considered icons of J-Pop by 2002. Because Ayu and Utada were not walking around with murdered parents, surprise pregnancies, and divorce, they quickly overshadowed Namie in every respect.

I just want to put this into perspective from Ayu's standpoint as well. Ayu caused a major scandal by marrying Manny in late 2010 and then divorcing him less than a year later. Her sales were drastically affected by the bad press. Love songs sold almost 300k. Party Queen barely reached 140k. And when PQ came out, news outlets were printing stories left and right about PQ's #2 debut meant Ayu was finally irrelevant. And there SCATHING commentaries about this all over the media.

So, before you err on the side of thinking Namie was just bored, please keep this in context. Namie was in her 20's when all of this happened. And her career didn't actually recover until 2005 when she released PLAY.

Originally Posted by Katsuyuki012

In other words, she just wanted to please the crowds and create things so they sell well - the end of the story. The only positive thing she says is that she has learned to enjoy singing and dancing at the same time, and the moment she started enjoying her work was….learning that it should give her joy….She says she found it but I will not believe it, since she kept thinking about retirement. I have no words.
Then, there is a reason why she stopped going to tv and that was: “I am not a very intelligent person and have nothing interesting to say”. She said that saying something interesting became a burden to her. I didn’t know that in shows like Music Station or others you are quizzed from the history, or they check your IQ. This is the same reason why she resigned from MCs.

The point you are most off on is the bold one. And I bolded it because that is literally what avex told Koda Kumi they wouldn't do for her. Koda started off and bumped through without much success because avex thought she was "fat" and "out of shape". And she had to completely flip her life around, depend on her boyfriend, depend on fans, and crawl into being the icon of J-Pop she is today. Sure, fame and money maybe played a small portion, but what more-so mattered was that Koda dreamed of spending her life making albums, singles, and going on tour. She couldn't imagine having to do something else with her life. So, rather than give up, she completely changed her attitude, appearance, and lifestyle to make her dream come true.

I don't doubt for a second that Namie was the same way. Could she have retired? Yeah. But she knew she was loved by audiences. And I think what mattered to her most was finding a way to reach people again. I think it mattered most that she not give up on continuing to be a "professional".

Ayu mentioned back in 2008, when it was announced she had lost hearing in her left ear, that she "promised to keep going." It's part of Japanese work ethic. If you give up, you are hurting others. And if you hurt others, you should feel a deep sense of shame for your actions.

Originally Posted by Katsuyuki012

This interview was very revealing. What I saw was Namie being a mainstream follower who is much more performer and the producer of music that would sell, very little passion though, rather then an artist.
I try to never do that in public discussions but I will mention Ayu. We may have varied opinions about her music, but she has never, even in the darkest hour said that she was tired.

No, Ayu did something worse: She tried to abandon Japan. You can say you're tired, you can say you need a break, but Ayu absolutely treated her status as J-Pop icon like a ball and a chain. She retreated to the US, to France, and to the UK. For extended periods of time, she would fly to Japan only for business. She even moved with Manny and her most recent ex to live outside of Japan (iirc!).

Originally Posted by Katsuyuki012

Not only that, she is totally opposite to Namie in this department. Her hearing has been getting worse with time but each time she speaks out, she keeps emphasising how she will not stop singing because it’s her life and those are not words to be taken lightly. She has learned acrobatics, her shows are always spectacular and even if repetitive at times - they are big, bright, theatrical and even if you don’t like Ayu, find her music boring - she knows how to put on a show.

I feel like you haven't watched a single one of Namie's PVs in the last 10 years. And I'm not coming down on you, I'm just pointing out that the production quality on literally ANYTHING Namie has done since 2009 has far surpassed Ayu. Namie's invested a lot of time in getting singles and albums and tours and promos "just right".

Originally Posted by Katsuyuki012

She is very involved in the creation process, writing all her lyrics makes her superior to Namie already. Speaking of lyrics, Namie’s English is horrible and without checking the words of songs on the internet - I wouldn’t be able to tell a lot of it. With Ayu, it’s not the case anymore that much.

-"GILS JUST WANNA HAVE FAHN."
-"I WANNA BE ANGEL."
-Every English word in You&Me.
-Every second of the Ayu special release "HAPPING HEEL". (Happenin' Here)

Originally Posted by Katsuyuki012

And there is no excuse, if you do something and earn really good money - do it well, learn those few lines at least, by heart. How, after being a fan of such passionate artist like Ayu, I am supposed to just ignore what Namie said, how she made herself a victim of her success?

Because Ayu is Ayu and Koda is Koda and Namie is Namie. Look, all of these things you're comparing between Ayu and Namie are qualities that literally identify them as different artists. All the things you mention about Ayu are all reasons we love her. (Keep in mind that no one drops into the Namie Amuro Sekai Forum.) But all of these things you're expecting Namie to be simply aren't Amuro Namie. Those are Ayu things. No one calls Celine Dion a talentless hack because Mariah Carey writes all her own lyrics. And no one calls Diane Warren a talentless hack because Mariah Carey performs all her own songs.

The only reason to draw these comparisons is when you have an artist literally claiming to be something they aren't. Like Beyonce. Beyonce is NOT a songwriter. But Beyonce calls herself a songwriter. Or like Halsey. Halsey is a piece of shit human being. But Halsey calls herself a "person". That's when you go... WAIT WAIT WAIT. And then start comparing Namie to Ayu.

Just my perspective!

Originally Posted by Katsuyuki012

I don’t even believe that she actually decides about jackets and all. The moment she opened her mouth I realized how much Ayu deserves to be called an artist and Namie simply a performer while I used to think of Ayu as a performer with passion. It’s understandable she kept herself quiet, because if she talked people would see how very uninteresting and to some point fake she was. Namie was produced, during all her career, even when she was her boss all she did was produce goods in the forms of music. She just wanted to sell and feel the joy of fans during concerts who had no clue that she put very little heart in her works.

Hon, Ayu writes her lyrics on an iPhone. Like, she's literally dropped a quarter of her discography in the toilet over the last 15 years. Ayu isn't like some Van Gogh toiling away in a dark corner to get the perfect pluck of a harp at 2 minutes, 32 seconds into her 200th ballad. Ayu just works until it's as close to what she wants as she can reasonably get it.

But again, Ayu and Namie are just different types of fruit. If Namie was in this interview talking like Kanye, we'd all be like, "Girl, you can have an ARENA TOUR of seats. You are a PERFORMER." But she's not saying she single-handedly transformed the entire music industry. She's not calling herself the Asian Jesus. She's not calling herself an icon. We're calling her that. Because we can't imagine this industry without her career.

Originally Posted by Katsuyuki012

Because of her feeling like a martyr, lack of passion and retiring finally, I am very much not interested in what happens to her professionally. I am glad she is retiring, she was very overrated in my opinion and did not deserve the publicity she got.

This is it tbh.. I hope no one`s gonna start bashing me like crazy although it wouldn`t be surprising because that`s what simply tends to happen when one expresses their negative opinion about somebody or something and especially with a topic like Namie who`s barely critisized, it is something that can expected...

I'm not bashing you. I'm just pointing out that you may be missing perspective on WHAT you're comparing Namie to. And I think if you step back and take it all into view, in context, knowing what I just explained to you (and WHY DIDN'T ANYONE ELSE DO THIS BEFORE I DID?!?!), maybe you'll come back to Namie and think, "OK. You know what? Namie did Namie. And I can't judge Namie based on the things I like about Ayu. They're just different people who approached their careers differently, but they both played a huge importance in shaping my time with J-Pop."

Thoughts?