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#1
3rd August 2011, 12:30 AM
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Your Relationship with Ayumi Hamasaki
Alright. That's it. This is going on way too long, and we're all gonna get to the bottom of it. I think the a-nation thread is the biggest piece of evidence that, we need some people to evaluate and accept all the different ways that they and other people love Ayu.
So, the question is: When you look at Ayumi Hamasaki, do you see Ayu, the human being, or do you see Ayumi Hamasaki the Entertainer? Is there a grey area? How do you think that affects what you want from what she does? What do you want from her? Do you think that being so close to Ayu with social media affects your view of her? How do you feel about the way other people see Ayu? Are you a little pig-headed about your opinions? We are all dying to know. Come on, bring on the drama~ I think, for me, there was a time when I saw Ayu, the artist, a person who was fueled so much by who she was, I fell in love with Ayu the human being...but that never detracted with my love for what I consider good music. That being said, I don't think I ever thought that Ayu being a product, and foremost a Pop Star, had that much affect on her work....but these days, Im not so sure. The level of control Ayu's had over her decisions has always been substantial, but never more so than now. And well, tbh, I don't like her recent music that much at all. I don't think it's bad, but I don't see it up to the standard of her classic and biggest hits. I think it always came down to the fact that, as unhappy as I might be, I decided to love Ayu and support her. I might joke around here and there, but no one should make the mistake to think that I don't love her. So, even though I think her crap sucks...I just go and pay attention to someone else. But I don't think that it should be "the norm" that people who have negative opinions to just, hide away and not say anything. As a community, we need to be able to have discussions without people getting offended with another person's opinions, because, like I said, everyone has a different relationship with her, as a fan, and we all have to understand that. Whether you like it or not. And it would benefit everyone to see this from other people's points of views anyway. Accept the challenge that other people think your views are crap. How strong are you and your beliefs?
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☆ bunnnniiiieeeesssss ☆ - The "New Artists You're Trying Out" Thread - 
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#2
3rd August 2011, 01:19 AM
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honestly i'm not any bit obsessive. there are things i wish could be done in moderation because it wasn't good the first time aka her uraya duet for this mini album. but honestly i can be mad but who cares LOL
all i hope is when i hear it it's a good song. in the end i just need good music so i can say she hasn't lost it. love songs had some pretty decent songs, and love song itself was amazing. so i'm content. i'd hate to put myself on a pedestal, but reading some of the hot headed opinions here is hilarious. i can't believe how offended some people can get. to be honest i'm just glad this is just a forum. imagine you woke up to this oh god LOL buuuut honestly we need to give people credit? there are some dedicated fans and that's definitely not all bad. as much as you hate something you can love something too!
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#3
3rd August 2011, 01:26 AM
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Ooooo, interesting thread. I'll participate.
When you look at Ayumi Hamasaki, do you see Ayu, the human being, or do you see Ayumi Hamasaki the Entertainer? Is there a grey area? Primarily an artist/entertainer. Of course, I think that her experiences as a human being have a great deal of influence on her music/performances. So, part of her appeal is that people can relate to her life experiences and emotions as a human being. It's a hard question to answer. How do you think that affects what you want from what she does? What do you want from her? I don't exactly know what I want from her music. I know what I don't want. The problem is that I (and I'm sure many others) believe that the first half of her career was unbelievably brilliant - the music, PV's, photoshoots, live vocals, etc. She's released some excellent material recently, and I enjoy almost all of her music regardless of whether or not it matches up to previous works. I can't deny though, that I feel she's been a bit lazy with the actual material. For me, many of her recent albums lack concept, direction, and have no distinct "atmosphere" to them. She's recycling themes and using the same arrangers. Too many of her songs tend to borrow from previous ones in structure, sound, and theme and it's making the songs that came first, in a sense, lose their worth. I guess you can say I'm concerned with the "legacy" of Ayumi Hamasaki. She always seems to work on deadlines. Art needs to time to bake, time to fall into place naturally. She needs influence to inspire creativity. Sometimes, the best thing for creativity is to take some time for yourself and experience life. Do you think that being so close to Ayu with social media affects your view of her? Yes, I don't think celebrities should use Twitter. It humanizes them too much. Takes away the veil of mysteriousness. And honestly, I don't think people wanna see that. I like my celebrities larger-than-life, not down-to-earth. American celebrities are especially bad on Twitter because they say stupid things all the time, and you realize just how unintelligent, ignorant, and basic they are as human beings. How do you feel about the way other people see Ayu? I feel that some fans have this strange relationship with her. It's almost like they think she's reading the forums, and they're trying to gain her approval as a supportive fan. A lot of people want Ayu to be a happy person and will stand by her no matter what. Really, bless you guys for that. I honestly could care less about whether or not she's happy. She seems to have an excellent support system from her staff and current fans, already. I have my own people, in real life, that I need to support and be there for. To be fair, she doesn't have to deal with some things that many other celebrities have to deal with (drug/alcohol addictions/being stalked by paparazzi/being accused of crimes they did or did not commit). Fans of these kinds of artists have a lot to protect and I can understand the relationship between these kinds of artists and their fans. Ayu... not so much. She's just a brilliant entertainer living a relatively dull life, tbh. Are you a little pig-headed about your opinions? Perhaps. I can see a bit of validity in everyone's opinions, though. I never think of anyone as being completely wrong, ever.
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#4
3rd August 2011, 01:38 AM
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When you look at Ayumi Hamasaki, do you see Ayu, the human being, or do you see Ayumi Hamasaki the Entertainer? Is there a grey area?
-The entertainer and pretty much that only, since it's about all she really shows us. How do you think that affects what you want from what she does? What do you want from her? -Coelacanth summed up my thoughts pretty perfectly, but: I think it makes me want her to take risks and do things that will actually entertain me, rather than the same type of songs she seems to be comfortable with. And I want just that: for her to get out of her comfort zone and change it up. An entertainer isn't that entertaining if they continually do the same things over and over. It might just be me, but I really don't think she's been surprising us. That just isn't cutting it for me. Do you think that being so close to Ayu with social media affects your view of her? -I don't feel close to her at all. I used to see her tweets all the time, but her English annoyed me so I stopped following her. Regardless, I feel as far away in the world from her as she actually is. Reading her tweets did actually make me like her less though. If it did humanize her at all, it made me find her a bit irritating (rather than the cute but still somewhat mysterious woman she appeared to be before). How do you feel about the way other people see Ayu? -I honestly couldn't care less. And by that I mean that it doesn't affect me either way. Are you a little pig-headed about your opinions? -(I'm assuming this means in relation to Ayu...) I wouldn't say so. With certain things, such as politics, I find it somewhat difficult to hear opinions that differ drastically from my own. But when it comes to Ayu, I really don't think that's the case.
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Last edited by bondingo; 3rd August 2011 at 01:51 AM.
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#6
3rd August 2011, 02:04 AM
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Relationship with ayu....?
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#7
3rd August 2011, 02:20 AM
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^yeah...uh you guys are all at an Ayu forum.
Sorry, but no matter how much people want to say they just "like" Ayu's music...actually coming here and posting for long periods of time says different. Do you have a better word for it? I'd be delighted to hear it.
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☆ bunnnniiiieeeesssss ☆ - The "New Artists You're Trying Out" Thread -
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#8
3rd August 2011, 02:29 AM
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When you look at Ayumi Hamasaki, do you see Ayu, the human being, or do you see Ayumi Hamasaki the Entertainer? Is there a grey area? idk how to word my answer. She's a human being to me, but still an entertainer, ya know? She uses her personal experiences/friends' experiences to write her own personal lyrics. She took control of a lot of her career too. But idk where I'm going with this LOL How do you think that affects what you want from what she does? What do you want from her? It's really hard to define what made pre-Secret Ayu so well-defined and wonderful. Something about all the albums from A Song for XX-(miss)understood are just instantly classics. But ever since then, none of her albums had that "power" and like one member said, the atmosphere just felt kind-of off. Her releasing has become repetitive (winter ballad -> summer ballad -> album, rinse and repeat). idk how to answer the first question though XD I'm so clueless Do you think that being so close to Ayu with social media affects your view of her? It doesn't affect me in anyway, imo. idk. The only celebrity that tweets and makes me love her even more is Rihanna. Effin' fierce *****. How do you feel about the way other people see Ayu? Her stans are so annoying, to be hella blunt *puts up flame shield* But for other fans, it's aight. Like you, emiko, you're a nice gal. Are you a little pig-headed about your opinions? No. If I don't like a song, I'll state that I don't like a song. I think Love songs is her worse release and I let my voice be known lol
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#9
3rd August 2011, 02:30 AM
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Sorry but just because I like some of her music doesn't mean I have a "relationship" with ayu. I just feel like relationship is the wrong term to use. That's just me though, sorry if you don't get what I mean.
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#10
3rd August 2011, 02:33 AM
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^no, I mean, I don't mean it like "relationship" like, a romantic relationship...
I mean like...here, the google definition: Quote:
 I didn't think it was a big deal, I just thought it made sense.If you don't feel that, then whatever lol I'd be really curious as to why you were at the forum though lol And guys, the questions don't have to have like, word for word answers, just, how do you feel connected to Ayu, and how do you think that affects how you perceive her work, basically. I was gonna say about the social media question though....Ayu on twitter actually annoys me lol And then her fans started to annoy me with all their "ayu bad engrish" talk...but I don't want to rain on their parade if they're happy with Ayu there...so meh.
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☆ bunnnniiiieeeesssss ☆ - The "New Artists You're Trying Out" Thread - Last edited by emi♡; 3rd August 2011 at 02:36 AM.
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#11
3rd August 2011, 02:36 AM
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^Not everyone is at this forum because they love Ayu, as odd as that may sound. A lot of people are here because they loved Ayu enough to join at one point, but like the community and therefore want to stay (even if they don't care much for who she is/what she does now). I think that's the case with a surprising amount of users here, and there are certainly enough non-Ayu topics to please those people.
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Last edited by bondingo; 3rd August 2011 at 02:38 AM.
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#12
3rd August 2011, 02:38 AM
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@emiko: oh I knew what you meant lol I just meant that for me personally, I don't feel like there's any type of relationship between ayu and I. I guess it could be because I just don't like her anymore
And I'm at the forum because I DID like ayu and still do like her older music. Just because I don't worship her every move and don't like her current music doesn't mean I can't still post here. I've made friends here so why would I leave?
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Last edited by MemorialAddress; 3rd August 2011 at 02:42 AM.
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#13
3rd August 2011, 02:39 AM
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@bondingo: that's true. I think that's why I stayed so long. All you have to do is say that lol
It still means you have some kind of relationship...everything has a relationship to something else, even if it's...one that ended...or a hateful one lol @MA: oh okay, cool. I think that's interesting~
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☆ bunnnniiiieeeesssss ☆ - The "New Artists You're Trying Out" Thread -
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#14
3rd August 2011, 02:44 AM
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When you look at Ayumi Hamasaki, do you see Ayu, the human being, or do you see Ayumi Hamasaki the Entertainer? Is there a grey area?
I see a woman who became an entertainer. I saw how raw she was back when A Song For XX was released. I watched her grow. Watched her budget go up. Saw her face look less scary. I say that because now she knows where the light hits her and how to control her posture to look good. Another would for it would be polished. Well she went scary in a new direction with the fish mouth and the deer-headlights eyes but at least in better clothes. I think that the woman comes out here and there. I don't think she's as raw with emotion as she used to be. She has written all of the stories that she's lived through and it is hard to rewrite them well enough to be different. How do you think that affects what you want from what she does? What do you want from her? Like I said she's written so much and gone through enough that she is almost flat in a sense. I think that listening to a lot of songs that are new sound like repeats because she's not as fresh. It is so bashed on this forum to say that you don't like the new works or that they sound just like extensions of previous works but it really comes down to the fact that I believe she is just not inspired. She may have bursts of inspiration but I don't feel the passion anymore. I just hear a lot of heavy harmonies and computerized instruments. There have been songs here and there that really do seem like the Artist Ayumi Hamasaki rather than the Pop Star Ayumi Hamasaki. I want her to take a few years off. She has been working an insane life for over a decade. I would like for her to really throw herself into new music. She has been dabbled and such but she hasn't really reincarnated herself in a long time. I miss the risks she used to take with herself. She is such a massive star that taking a risk now isn't going to hurt her career. It would make me respect her more. Do you think that being so close to Ayu with social media affects your view of her? I'm not close to her. I don't follow her twitter. I don't attempt to make contact with her. She isn't my friend and the only true relationship I feel to her is through her lyrics. I'd rather not tarnish the ideas I came to know through her music by knowing a woman who could explain the meaning of a song to be something different than I imagined. I hope that makes sense? How do you feel about the way other people see Ayu? This will probably make the topic get closed. LOL emiko~ I really think that it is honestly a great and wide spectrum throughout the world. That said, I think that there is a large concentration of condescending and rude members here that overpower those who maintain objective opinions and provide some sort of constructive criticism. I've seen people post "I LOVE IT" time and time again. That is fine but you really provide nothing new to your words and eventually it makes the way you type about every release seem as if you are brain washed. I really do enjoy reading people who write out WHY they like something. It shows that their opinion is thought out because of specific things and not only because its a release by "^ o ^ Ayu-chan~" (dramatization) I actually stopped posting here because whenever I posted a comment about something in particular that I didn't like I'm told to leave, I'm told to go listen to her old works, I'm told that I'm not a fan, I'm told that I always post the same thing when I rarely post here anymore, I'm told I'm a "hater". I really think people should learn what the word hate means. Not loving does not mean hating. The world is not black and white. Are you a little pig-headed about your opinions? No, I'm not. I don't tell people they need to leave because they love things too much. I don't think their idiots for having an opinion. Sometimes, I admit, I think that there are people too consumed and worship her as if she doesn't take a dump that is brown and stank. I think that Ayumi has taught a lot of fans to love and deal with grief in ways that make her stans a lot easier to tolerate than Lady Gaga for instance (bringing her up because of the opinion stuff). I've seen Lady Gaga fans completely shred people with words and horrible hateful comments; all that while Lady Gaga always preaches that people should love and not hate lol. I haven't out right seen any Ayumi fans bash, trash, threaten, or any of the like. That's a good thing I suppose. Just don't tell people to leave because you can't handle opinions that don't match your own. Opinions are not facts just because they're yours. I'd love to type more but this subject has long been in my head whenever I come here. It is almost as if I have too many words to type.
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 Last edited by haikudasai; 3rd August 2011 at 02:48 AM.
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#15
3rd August 2011, 02:46 AM
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Quote:
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#16
3rd August 2011, 02:48 AM
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When you look at Ayumi Hamasaki, do you see Ayu, the human being, or do you see Ayumi Hamasaki the Entertainer? Is there a grey area?
I believe there is a grey area. I'm unsure where I lie now though. I used to view Ayu as a human, and I praised her for being so humane and down to earth in her music and image. I thought this was unique to her. But it isn't. I think I see her more as an entertainer now, but I don't expect her to do everything to please her fans. But that said - I do feel that there needs to be some recognition that if you don't please the fans, you don't have fans. And what is "Ayumi Hamasaki" without fans? Ayumi Hamasaki isn't a brand, an entertainer, or a person able to share her views and feelings any more. I think the best way to put it is... she puts a lot of her person into her music, but we never see anything but that aspect of her, because she's never really been or done anything else. She doesn't have anything else to show us without it crossing over into us knowing EVERYTHING about her life, and that's not right. How do you think that affects what you want from what she does? What do you want from her? The only expectation I have from Ayu now is "good" songs I can enjoy. No more than I expect from anybody I listen too. I guess because I used to see her as my best friend or someone I needed - I used to expect music that I could relate to and be moved by. I don't expect that any more, partly because I just see her as making music and whether I feel moved or not is up to me, not her. This is mixed with her taking her music in directions that don't fit with my musical taste. The focus on being "moved" comes from the fact that Ayu was the first artist to get that reaction from me. I guess... I view her older eras as superior because I could take all the material and find the songs I loved and the treasures. They were there for me to explore and I could ignore all the songs I disliked because the magic ones were there. When waiting for that next magic song from her I have to wait for her to release all these "disappointing" songs until she hits that magic for me again. Do you think that being so close to Ayu with social media affects your view of her? Oh yes, 100%. Negatively too. Part of Ayu's charm was this mix of being so mysterious but having lyrics that were so easy to relate too. Now she isn't so mysterious and I don't relate as much. It's like... I don't know. I cried my eyes out when I met her. I cried for weeks. I'd pretty much accepted I'd never get to see her live, but to meet her in my country?! Why did I want to meet her? I thanked her for her music and the support it had given me. After those weeks in London she got Twitter and was closer to her fanbase than ever. And Ayu wasn't who I'd built her up to be in my mind I guess. We were able to see her reactions so much more than before, and I guess I just disagreed with her a lot on a personal level - like you disagree with a friend or acquaintance. I'd disagreed with her before, but Twitter took it to a whole new level. How do you feel about the way other people see Ayu? I don't really care what people think, but I do care about how they express it. Honestly, it put me off integrating into the Ayu fandom. Look at my join date and my post count (I did a looot of lurking). I guess in the Ayu fandom the extremes really really overshadow the middle ground. Those who love something get viewed as stans who love everything she puts out and should stop following her and go outside. Those who dislike something are told they should stop wanting her to go back to her peak days because she's evolved and they should get over it/not listen. Even outside the Ayu fandom, this is how onlookers look in. I like that people view her differently, I think that's what makes her interesting and entertaining. I like to see why someone views her the way they do, or why they dislike something, and I think at times that's lacking a lot in the Ayu fandom. It's also what makes the fandom so volatile though, all these different views and perspectives. Are you a little pig-headed about your opinions? Oh yeah, but that's not exclusive to Ayu. It's just the way I am. I sometimes push views I don't even agree with just to get people to think or just because I want something to talk about. I'm not pig headed in a "I LOVE IT WHY DON'T YOU?" sense, I'm more of a "I hate it, why do you love it, please explain to me~" kind of sense and then debating why I agree/disagree. I usually refrain from posting my opinions as I come across as more aggressive than I intend too. I wouldn't have bothered with this if I hadn't felt so strongly about all the issues a-nation brought up and shared my views more than I usually do. I mean, I very rarely post anyway, so why would anyone care what I think? As sort of a note, reading the posts above. Why am I here? I used to lurk here to follow Ayu, now it's that and that this place is surprisingly convenient for non-Ayu news also. I think I participate in Ayu discussions because I'm sort of in a state of... I still care, but not as much as I used too. I never posted when I adored her, and I joined here late into that, and if I did post when I did... I may have come across as deluded, and I was aware of that so never bothered. Or is that I just enjoy posting criticism of her more than praise? I am a very pessimistic person haha longest post ever. I could write an essay on ~how I feel about Ayu~
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#17
3rd August 2011, 02:50 AM
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Not even a page in and we already got snarky posts that don't even attempt to answer the question and condescending tags, lol. I love you guyz.
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Interesting last paragraph. I've never thought about it that way. I became a fan around Memorial address era, so a lot of wonderful material was already there before me. Last edited by Coelacanth; 3rd August 2011 at 03:06 AM.
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#18
3rd August 2011, 03:12 AM
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When you look at Ayumi Hamasaki, do you see Ayu, the human being, or do you see Ayumi Hamasaki the Entertainer? Is there a grey area?
I see Ayu the human being. I've been listening to Ayu since I was in middle school and I've always had a connection with her music. I hadn't seen a concert of hers until CDL 05-06 almost 4 years after becoming a fan. So I never really saw her as Ayumi Hamasaki the Entertainer. It was always her music that kept me coming back. My interest in artists as entertainers is very flimsy. I don't invest as much in them nor follow them as closely as I do Ayu. How do you think that affects what you want from what she does? What do you want from her? I think that makes me a lot more comfortable with her music direction. I'm not looking to be entertained as much. If I don't like something, I'm on to the next one but there's rarely anything I don't like from her. All I want from her is for her to follow her judgement, if she takes other ideas or influences or criticisms into consideration, cool. But I don't want her to be come the kind of artist whose sole purpose is to please for a pay check. I'd like her to keep her artistic integrity. Do you think that being so close to Ayu with social media affects your view of her? I'm not close to her social media to be honest. I was when she first got a twitter account but not so much any more. It doesn't affect my view of her. How do you feel about the way other people see Ayu? Mostly, I don't care. But when they have views that tend to objectify her or are largely very negative about her, I tend to either ignore it or get defensive. Are you a little pig-headed about your opinions? I try not to be. If I come off that way it's not personal. Sometimes it takes a while to understand the other point of view when it's so different from your own.
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#19
3rd August 2011, 03:25 AM
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When you look at Ayumi Hamasaki, do you see Ayu, the human being, or do you see Ayumi Hamasaki the Entertainer? Is there a grey area?
When I like someone, anyone, I always look at them as a human. I seriously couldn't be a fan of someone if I felt they were a horrible person. There are some people or singers who I listen to only a few songs, so I don't really care either way. But if it's someone who I call myself a fan of, then yes I view them as a human, because I get to know them before I call myself a fan of their's. And by that I mean, you know, interviews and crap, etc. How do you think that affects what you want from what she does? What do you want from her? I really don't care what she does because I don't even listen to ayu anymore. Do you think that being so close to Ayu with social media affects your view of her? I definitely think it affects the view of anyone. Twitter is great with connecting with people you'd never think you'd get to talk to. Unless, the person turns out to be a huge ass. How do you feel about the way other people see Ayu? I can honestly say I don't care. Are you a little pig-headed about your opinions? With Ayu? No. As above, I don't care what anyone thinks of her. In general, I would say no. If I have an opinion I'll say it, often. But... if someone can provide me with a great explanation of their side, I won't keep stating my opinion, because I'll see where they're coming from. And I agree with Bondingo and MemAdd. I actually find ayu incredibly irritating now, so I just stay out of this section most of the time. It's a large forum, there are many things to talk about.
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#20
3rd August 2011, 03:29 AM
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When you look at Ayumi Hamasaki, do you see Ayu, the human being, or do you see Ayumi Hamasaki the Entertainer? Is there a grey area?
I see Ayumi Hamasaki the Entertainer because she always presents herself that way. I know there is Ayumi Hamasaki the human beneath that exterior, but it seems so rare to catch glimpses of it. I can only imagine who she really is as a person. How do you think that affects what you want from what she does? What do you want from her? I don't desire anything from her other than the wonderful music she gives us already. She indulges us enough as it is. I would be content if she made music at her own pace rather than under the pressure of her fans and her company though. Do you think that being so close to Ayu with social media affects your view of her? Not really. The social media seems to be another tool she uses that exposes the entertainer side of her. Sometimes we see some of the real Ayu, I'm sure, but it seems most of the time we do not. How do you feel about the way other people see Ayu? I don't feel anything for them except in extreme cases of stans and anti-fans. Then I feel disdain. Are you a little pig-headed about your opinions? I try not to be. I'm often gray about many of my opinions.
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