Do you think Ayu was at fault too?

[waterballoon]

Before beginning my opinion, I would like to say I respect Ayu very much as a performer and a person and I still like her and her music very very much. Whatever I have to say afterwards have no ill intentions towards her nor am I trolling.

So within the span of 2 years (2011 - 2013), we witnessed Ayu and her messed up relationships with Mannie and Maro.

I don't know any of them personally, neither am I on anyone's side in particular, but does anyone feel like Ayu was at a fault for both relationships?

Case 1: Mannie
If anyone has read the interview translations (thanks to the great Misa-chan!) on the NUMERO Tokyo interview about her private home, and she (allow me to paraphrase) said this of Mannie

"... did the photobook, it came as a shock to me. I thought, 'Eh isn't he my husband? Why is he doing things like this?'"

Clearly she didn't approve of his naked photo book. At that time, I thought wow so it really is because he was too provocative.

Then while watching some of her older PVs, it suddenly occurred to me that isn't that very hypocritical of her to say that when

1) She doesn't approve the idea of her then husband releasing a sexed up photo book/project
2) She doesn't like the fact he sort of "capitalized" on her network to release something in Japan

AND THEN, She has his face shoved into all of us and her portfolio, with 3 PVs, and then another PV (Return Road) with obvious hints towards Mannie post-divorce?

Also, isn't it a little opportunistic of her to take her personal disapproval towards Mannie, twist it in such a politically correct manner by saying that (I paraphrase from a TA message back in 2011)

"... I couldn't leave my homeland when it was in trouble, and so I have chosen my country over my marriage and we grew apart..."

Comparing this statement to her NUMERO Tokyo interview it was very clear to me that she seemed to have a change of mind. Of course it could be both reasons, and that at that time in 2011 it was a smarter move to only state one of the reasons, being a great time that it would also boost her image of a patriotic celebrity.

What I feel from this whole Mannie saga is that she herself felt she chose the wrong man (for whatever reason; Super Mannie, etc, etc), took the chance that this distance in their feelings happened during the 03/11 Japan tsunamis and declared that it was due to her patriotism that caused her to get a divorce.

All these would have been okay IF the Return Road PV didn't happen. IMO, the choice of the obvious hints in that PV just screams "LEMME SQUEEZE MANNIE DRY FOR THE LAST TIME".

It's like all right Ayu, you don't like Mannie taking the chance of your network to release a provocative project in Japan, yet you used him (as in your divorce) as a foil to boost your image in Japan, and also taking the chance of this separation to create a theme for an album (Party Queen) and a PV (Return Road)?

I'm sorry but Ayu is still human and I felt from this perspective she really also did something wrong.

Case 2: Maro

When I first saw Maro's face shoved into my face when I watched the You & Me PV, I thought okay maybe it's fine since it was Shu-Ya in the past.

Then the "again" covers came out with 1/2 of Maro's face and her announcement that they're together just made me went

"WHAT AGAIN?!"

It was as if she didn't learn ANYTHING from her past relationship... I wondered what gave her the confidence to shove her new boyfriend's face into another part of her portfolio... "again".

Then I thought, mmm Ayu is a smart lady. She is very shrewd. Looking at the choice of word for that mini-album, "again", and how she's seemingly doing the same things to Maro as to Mannie, it's almost like she's trying to prove a point that the same old thing is gonna happen again.

And yup it did. Why? Because Maro turned out to be a douchebag, perhaps worse than Mannie but obviously in Ayu's POV both of them were horrid enough for her to call it off.

And I feel that, she probably already knew about Maro's shady past, so why be together with someone who has so much baggage that he himself can't even settle?

Then I related to an experience, that after a breakup/divorce, she was probably lonely, and hell yeah maybe Tim can be her BFF and "Shake It" with her but she ain't getting his D. And she needs that sort of companionship.

At her most vulnerable moment, I think she fell for the "bad boy". God knows what vile promises came out from Maro's mouth but I believe Ayu was stupid enough to fall for them.

And for that, I think she's at fault too. Because you can't stop Maro from being a douchebag, but Ayu can stop herself from making the wrong choice and she didn't.

BUT, one improvement she has made is that there hasn't been any apparent "Return Road" kinda tribute to Maro after their breakup, which also means she knew and regretted doing that song. I mean it wasn't even included in the DVD for the concert.

My point is, I've been reading around the forums during the end of the Mannie and Maro eras, and how almost everyone flew to Ayu's defense, saying she was hurt badly blah blah blah but Ayu is not a lamb or a rabbit. She's a 35 year old woman and I know and believe that she is more than capable of knowing what is right and what is wrong.

It takes 2 hands to clap, and a relationship doesn't happen just because one person wants it to. I definitely wouldn't condemn her for making the wrong decisions but I still feel she's to be blamed to a certain extent for her messed up 2 years.

And I think that's what I love... AND hate about Ayu at the same time. She's so smart and rational, yet you throw something personal in and she loses it. Look at her portfolio post Secret and you will know that she has begun to indulge in people she feels comfortable with (Kazuya Shimomura, Leslie Kee, Timothy Phillip Wellard, many many more) and deep down,

I think she's afraid.

Afraid that she wouldn't have any friends like back then in 1998. Afraid that being too professional would harm her friendships.

Nothing wrong with that, it's a very humane thing. But I do beseech Ayu to realize that

Ayu the artiste and ayumi hamasaki the person are same but different at the same time.

I still love her so much and she continues to inspire me with her resilience but I think she has a really stupid brain when it comes to relationships (well she's a Libra, can't blame her...) and I wish her next BF to NOT be a douchebag who only wants her fame or whatever because this is a woman who grew up without a father and with a broken family. Enough hurt has been done, and she needs and deserves a real kind of love. The kind she's been singing about since "poker face".

Thank you.

[NintendoHTF1242]

I can't formulate my thought on this at the moment, but I do appreciate you writing your point-of-view on the aspect of Ayu's relationship. It was a good read. When my brain is better functioning I'll give you a better response lol

[marty]

This was very interesting, really. Thank you, I loved your opinion.
Personally, I always saw Ayu as a deeply troubled person, with a lot of issues, but, maybe because I'm a person with a lot of issues too, I never saw that as a problem. Actually, I love her because she's not perfect, because she's so deep and interesting, and inside her heart there's bad and there's good.
So, I kind of think Ayu was very afraid with Mannie. She desperately wanted to believe in this "love dream", but the whole affair was so big it scared her a bit. Marriage is deep stuff, one has to share pretty much everything I suppose. I'll never understand her for blaming Mannie this much for the naked photoshoot, but I respect her values, even if I don't share them (but you're right, it's sort of hypocritical. She always linked her work with her personal life though, and in an artistic way not a lucrative one, so I understood Return Road PV. I kind of expected it tbh). Anyway, from my point of view, Ayu seemed to run away from Mannie, and in a sort of desperate way. It was rushed from the beginning, anyway.
Instead, I have nothing to say about Maro. It was a fling, nothing wrong with that. I mean, how many people had short relationships? It happens all the time. Sure, she put him in the PVs, but I didn't mind. Honestly, because I never felt they were about Maro at all, unlike the ones with Mannie. She could have put anyone instead of him.
And that's how I see the whole thing. Truth be told, she's just living her life, mistakes and all. I'm happy for that, she'll continue to evolve and eventually become an ever more complicated and beautiful person (thus, better lyrics and better music too ).

[& + H]

Is all an avex way to get money.
I wonder why she didn't put her ex boyfriend in the cover or made a music video about him like she did with mannie and maro. Hmmmm

[ComatoseBunnySnatcher]

Originally Posted by & + H

Is all an avex way to get money.
I wonder why she didn't put her ex boyfriend in the cover or made a music video about him like she did with mannie and maro. Hmmmm

He's a celeb too

[ayuPanda]

thanks for your opinion it was fun to read and very interessting.
I think my opinion is like yours....a bit different but most of yours like mine.
I think the relationship with mannie was okay. If he stoped with the "hey I make a sexy shoot for my girl" with Leslie Kee (I think Leslie felt in love with Mannie xD) it weren't that problem with ayu. I really think that's the fact she broke up with him.

Maro is a ... how could I say it nice? Don't like him. He wanted to be with ayu because he used her like a milking cow. somewhere I read that ayu bought him things when they were in Paris :/ and now hes a solo singer ô.o and many private and shity stuff about ayu is in the world. I don't think it's only maros fault, but he isnt that inculpable.

I think the best relationship she had, was with Tomoya Nagase. And I hope for her that the next bf will be a good man and loves her

[zaqwanbadli]

No ill-intention here, but I think the whole thing has been pre-planned, with Mannie as the opening and Maro as the closing for a career revival project. It's all a business move to keep things fresh.

When Ayu had a shotgun wedding with Mannie, I know something was up. It's not my place really to have a say on her love life, but it's a little too... convenient. Ayu marrying a foreigner would surely stir the media.

And there's the whole PV thing, but it was not enough. Okay, a married couple of different cultures. Interesting, but too slow-paced. A divorce would spruce things up. Reasons were needed, whatever they are. And they were found. Divorce, done.

And enter Maro for the final stage of the project. I was not really in tune with the Maro affair because it's also seemed to pass by so quickly without any warning. And it didn't really seem genuine; the whole idea of it.

Nonetheless, it feels like life has imitated art somehow for Ayu? Her life course is been pre-set by musical pursuits. Everything feels a lit-tle too convenient. "Alright, these have to happen so that these minis can come out. You need to do these."

I don't really think it's Ayu's fault either. I believe it's the company. We may have been led to believe that she now has major control over her musical direction, but is it really true?

With all that's happening now, what with how unenthusiastic and somehow fake vibes she's been giving out lately, I think she has chosen to ride on what the company has to offer. She's done it all, she's experienced her peak, she's happy with where she is, so why not, right?

p/s: I used to be so crazy with Ayu, but now I'm no longer that interested in her. I still am deeply in love with her old work however, when she was so earnest.

Just my thoughts. I hope no one is offended with my crazy theory. I'd love a mature discussion on the matter.

Thank you for reading.

[terra]

I love reading this and I also think the same way with you about this problem
I'm too lazy to write it, I'm so glad someone represents what I had in mind

[koumori]

I've never liked the fact that Ayu referenced her divorce so openly in Return Road. I know she has always used her emotions and real life experiences to inspire her work, but using the photograph of herself and Mannie so openly just left a sour taste in my mouth. They seem to be on good terms now and I suppose that's what matters.

There's a lot of suspicion surrounding her two relationships, and looking at what we know, I don't really blame people for being wary of parts (or all of it) being for marketing reasons. I think we don't know enough to ever make a clear judgement on how things went on. Was Ayu just bitter about the divorce or did she use the photo to bring more attention to the PV? Was it a true holiday romance or a set-up for her next musical era? Was Maro a rebound after being her friend for so long, or did Avex think she needed another media boost for her new albums?

I don't think we'll ever know for sure. All we know is that all participants in these relationships have said they were true. The rest is speculation, even though it does look bad. I feel sad that Ayu's reputation has been affected by this, at least for me. Sometimes I wish she was still so mysterious to me, like before she got Twitter. I'm a selfish fan.

[waterballoon]

thank you everyone for the mature inputs!

I think while it's true that as fans or bystanders there definitely isn't a lot we would know of, but I feel the whole vibe from this 2 years compared to how she was (or rather how she portrayed herself) in her earlier days very very jarring.

It's more of a matter of how she has changed (in a negative way) than a matter of participating in gossip because we've nothing better to do.

She always had a strong character and personality so I'm still unwilling to believe that she would allow herself (what more with more than 10 years in this company) to be controlled by avex... if this was her first year of her career maybe, but at her status now, I don't think she would lower herself to such an extent.

I mainly agree with Zagwanbail, that it really seems like a carefully planned out scenario to revive her career, or to shed some needed limelight on her. While her whirlwind relationships never made me any more, or less, interested in her (it was always the music and lyrics and just this "ayumi hamasaki" person), I feel bad, almost sorry, that she has relegated to such an extent

[marty]

No ill intentions here either, but I don't understand how all of this could have been arranged. I mean, if it was, it was suicidal!
Japan doesn't look good at scandals, and I think Ayu has been so popular for so long because she kept herself away from huge relationships scandals too. We're talking about a country that would gladly lapidate an idol band girl for having a boyfriend. We can see her public image had problems after the divorce because her "honesty" -which is one of her most popular traits- was questioned. Then some time passed, LOVE was selling nicely all things considered, and then with her including Maro in again covers and PVs, the numbers dropped drastically.
I don't think it's a marketing move, simply because it's a very stupid move, it didn't improve sales or her image at all. She build her career with an image, so doing this on purpose wouldn't make sense, unless it was her own way to shake this very image off her (which could be interesting, given Party Queen concepts and lyrics).
Either it was somewhat a genuine, rough time of her, or her marketing team is a bunch of idiots who thought this would help her (and them being Avex, it's not impossible, lol!).

[waterballoon]

true that. I think she was just really stupid on both times and allowed her heart to make the decision and not her mind. more than a decade of experience she should know that she's not just "ayumi hamasaki"; she also represents herself for her own brand, and she's the BEST ambassador for herself.

[KarenPang]

It takes 2 hands to clap in any relationship but somehow for ayumi's case , she seems to be the more dominant party in her past relationships

That said as a long time fan of hers since late 2005 , it saddens me quite a lot that in recent times , her priorities have changed/shifted . Even during the time when she was with Nagase , she never let that be the focal point of her career & instead she was focusing more on what's important , which's music

I don't know if it's a Johnny's thing for her not to talk about Nagase as openly as her subsequent relationships but the timing of what happened to her with Mannie & then Maro are just too coincidental with her releases

She doesn't need any form of bad marketing publicity in order to drum up sales . What she needs now is just to go back to basics & do what she does best

Fans like the artistic polarising side of her , nobody wants to see her being too open with her personal life . It might be a turn on for some to know her beyond her career but to me it's a turn off

[zaqwanbadli]

There's this thing called "pushing the boundaries" people like to quote nowadays when they do something risky...

I like to think that the entertainment industry is laying this on Ayu just to see where it would pan out, to see how the crowd reacts. After all, she's known to push boundaries before. She's an expert in this boundary-pushing field, the perfect candidate.

On the note about how Japan views scandal, sometimes the industry can be quite oblivious to the norm. It's like working on a creative project - you don't really care what other people think. As long as it's new, it's unheard of, it's over the top, by all means, carry it out. Big risk, bigger gain, huh? But unfortunately, it can also be a bigger fall.

Again, I am just putting it out here. I am not saying that I'm right, but it's something to consider, among other things. I always view Ayu as someone who wants things done black or white. Dark brunette or light blonde. Unplugged performances or lavish theatrical show. In the limelight, or out. She never settles to be in the middle. No, not this Ayu. It's her (or Avex's?) way, or the highway.

I might have been reading too much into this. Anyway, simple things always turn out to be the truth rather than the intricate explanations. In the end, who really knows?

p/s: I kept thinking about her punishment for not showing up on Music Station for some reason...

This is a fun debate! Thank you.

[marty]

Originally Posted by waterballoon

true that. I think she was just really stupid on both times and allowed her heart to make the decision and not her mind. more than a decade of experience she should know that she's not just "ayumi hamasaki"; she also represents herself for her own brand, and she's the BEST ambassador for herself.

I always think about her lyrics, and how she always says she doesn't feel like an adult at all. And, apart for being super cute, it's this childish trait of her that I think was shown in this case. For the Party Queen interview, she said she chased this big dream of "true love" (that of course rimes with marriage), but in the end she understood that she didn't really want it. The mere idea of it was very appealing, but in the end she isn't made for it. So, basically, despite believing in it, she has been very irresponsible and unfair from the beginning towards Mannie. And then, at the first problem, she just dropped everything almost without even trying: pratically a runaway bride (lol, love that film). I completely understand her and I'm far from blaming her, but I can't say she acted in a very mature and responsible way. Doesn't matter, she isn't a saint, she doesn't need to be, but still.
And thanks for creating this thread, btw, I'm having such a great time! As anyone can see from my overly lenghty responses, I loooove talking about this stuff!

[waterballoon]

it reminds me of a quote from Miley Cyrus on her recent Rolling Stones interview:

"People are always gonna talk. You might as well do something that makes people take for 2 weeks than for 2 seconds."

Could this be the psyche Ayu had for the past 2 years?

[Delirium-Zer0]

Ayu spent seven years in one stable relationship - her only major one as far as I or any of us know. And those were seven formative years in anyone's life, the bulk of her 20s. She didn't go through the trial and error most young women go through during that time, when we learn what real, successful relationships are really like. I think Ayu had a stable, functional relationship with someone who accepted her as she was, but it lost its luster and they decided to part and stay friends. She instead started chasing the more "shiny," exciting type of love, which is a mistake - that "shiny" never lasts, and it either gives way to a subtle, comfortable feeling or disillusionment & disappointment depending on two people's compatibility. Anyone her age with that trial-and-error experience knows that, but she never really learned it. So with Mannie and Maro, she had the shiny, but they weren't compatible. She was excited, totally sure she was gonna stay with these guys forever, and she made mistakes many young women make. It's hard to believe she'd do that at 35, but put yourself in the place of a 19 year old - when it came to love, that's about how much experience she'd had. I don't think Ayu is any more "at fault" than the guys were. Sometimes relationships just fail. These did.

I don't think Ayu's dislike of Mannie's photobook is unreasonable - for one thing, it's far more socially acceptable for women to pose like that than it is for men to. I'm not saying I agree with her socially-built opinion on that, but it's true - when a guy poses like that it's far more shocking (I think most people here can agree with that). Plus, Mannie seems to have presented the photo collection as a gift for Ayu, but then took it public - looking at those photos together privately might have been a fun thing for them to do, laughing and kissing and being cute, but he decided to show those photos to the general public. Which, if I were her, I don't think I'd have been okay with either.

As for Maro's situation, he explained that she knew he had a kid from a previous marriage, but she didn't know he was still legally married. He probably presented to the whole world that his divorce was finalized when it wasn't, since it was "as good as" finalized in his eyes. She knew about some of his baggage, but not all of it - and I can't blame her for taking a chance on him despite his being a father if she really liked him, you know? We single parents need people like that to take chances on us. Yes, technically it's "baggage," but we deserve love too, right? Ayu didn't expect that Maro would have ulterior motives, using Ayu's celebrity to try to catapult his own, especially if they were getting along well - you don't suspect people you care about of that kind of thing. EVERYONE'S mind gets clouded by romantic feelings too - I mean there's scientific truth behind that. I'm really happy that Ayu acknowledges the Maro situation as a mistake - it's hard to swallow your pride and admit you screwed up. But she only screwed up by trusting someone she shouldn't have. I don't think ANY of us can judge her for that, I'm sure we've all done it.

Whether Ayu is at fault for these relationships failing or not DOESN'T MATTER. Each person was being themselves, doing what they wanted to do according to their own priorities, and those priorities didn't match up. Mannie didn't do anything WRONG doing that photobook, he simply proved that his principles were different than Ayu's. In my opinion Maro didn't do anything by having that past baggage - having similar baggage, I can't judge him for that. Using her popularity & the breakup to try to become more popular himself, yeah, that was a crappy thing to do. But as far as I can tell, the relationship itself seemed to have been more of a victim of tabloid snooping than anything else.

Ayu isn't at fault for these relationships ending any more than a high schooler is for her relationships ending, when she only started dating guys cuz they were cute. I don't expect ayu will have a lasting relationship for awhile, because she needs to figure out what her needs are. She hasn't really had enough practice to figure it out yet. Both Mannie and Maro were relationships based on "he's attractive and we get along, we're gonna be in love FOREVER!" which is a warped, romantic-comedy perception of how love is supposed to work. But we can't do any better than that without testing the waters, figuring out the image of the "perfect" relationship in our heads, and then finally finding the relationship that works for us. These didn't work for her or the men involved. That's all there is to it.

tl;dr: Ayu has no idea what she's doing when it comes to love, but can you really blame her? These guys were not right for her, but she couldn't have known that for sure until the relationships ended. Yes, she got too excited about these guys, but it's a learning experience for EVERYONE who falls in love.

[waterballoon]

wow wow wow

amazing PV del-0... I had a great time reading your opinion. Mmm it really brings out the fact that she's really human.. to make such a mistake. Kudos to her courage for trying out in love really, and kudos to you for letting us know another perspective of her life.

[kumis]

Damn, I should become an Ayu fan so I get in on all this J-diva's drama

[panda♥]

Originally Posted by Delirium-Zer0

tl;dr: Ayu has no idea what she's doing when it comes to love, but can you really blame her? These guys were not right for her, but she couldn't have known that for sure until the relationships ended. Yes, she got too excited about these guys, but it's a learning experience for EVERYONE who falls in love.

awesome post.
it's unfortunate that from the outside, her recent relationships seem like some major pop star scandal to boost sales. honestly, i hope Ayu just enjoys this part of her love life since it was so absent before.