Michael Jackson's Death Ruled a Homicide

[emikoishida]

Okay, we've gotten two months of MJ now but know court documents are saying he had lethal amounts of propofol in his system.


The documents address one of the major unanswered questions surrounding Jackson's death. But they also raise new questions about how Jackson was treated, particularly in the hours before his death.

Conrad Murray, Jackson's personal doctor, told detectives with the Los Angeles Police Department that he had been treating Jackson for insomnia for about six weeks. He had been giving Jackson 50 milligrams of propofol every night using an intravenous line, according to the court records.

But Murray told detectives that he feared Jackson was forming an addiction and began trying to wean the pop star off the drugs. He lowered the dosage to 25 milligrams and mixed it with two other sedatives, lorazepam and midazolam. On June 23, two days before Jackson's death, he administered those two medications and withheld the propofol.

On the morning Jackson died, Murray tried to induce sleep without using propofol, according to the affidavit. He said he gave Jackson valium at 1:30 a.m. When that didn't work, he said, he injected lorazepam intravenously at 2 a.m. At 3 a.m., when Jackson was still awake, Murray administered midazolam.

Over the next few hours, Murray said he gave Jackson various drugs. Then at 10:40 a.m., Murray administered 25 milligrams of propofol after Jackson repeatedly demanded the drug, according to the court records.

Although Murray acknowledged to police that he administered propofol, authorities said they could find no evidence that he had purchased, ordered or obtained the medication under his medical license or Drug Enforcement Administration tracking number. However, police detectives saw about eight bottles of propofol in the house along with other vials and pills that had been prescribed to Jackson by Dr. Murray, Dr. Arnold Klein and Dr. Allan Metzger.

Other drugs that were confiscated in the search included valium, tamsulosin, lorazepam, temazepam, clonazepam, trazodone and tizanidine. They also found propofol in Murray’s medical bag. Murray told detectives that he was not the first doctor to administer the powerful anesthetic to Jackson.

At least two unidentified doctors gave Jackson propofol in Germany. Between March and April 2009, Murray said he called Las Vegas doctor David Adams at Jackson’s request to arrange for Adams to administer propofol. Murray said he was present at a cosmetologist’s office, where Adams used propofol to sedate Jackson. Since he began treating Jackson, Murray said he repeatedly asked the pop star what other physicians were treating Jackson and what drugs they were prescribing. But Jackson declined to provide the information, Murray told authorities.

Murray said he noticed injection marks on Jackson’s hands and feet. When he asked Jackson about them, the pop star told him he had been given a “cocktail” to help him. In addition to Murray, authorities subpoenaed medical records from Dr. Arnold Klein, Dr. Allan Metzger and Dr. David Adams, the affidavit states. They also asked for medical records from Dr. David Slavitt, who conducted the independent medical examination of Jackson for Anschutz Entertainment Group, Dr. Randy Rosen and nurse practitioner Cherilyn Lee. They also subpoenaed records from Dr. Mark Tadrissi, who stored medical records with Adams.

Jackson’s doctor told authorities he left Jackson’s bedside for no more than two minutes before returning to find the pop star not breathing. Jackson reportedly fell asleep at 10:40 a.m.

Murray said after monitoring Jackson for 10 minutes, he left to use the restroom. When he returned and saw Jackson wasn’t breathing at 11 a.m. He immediately began attempting to revive Jackson, administering CPR as well as a drug to reverse the effects of the sedative. But police are questioning that account. Cellphone records for the morning of June 25 show Murray made three separate phone calls for approximately 47 minutes beginning at 11:18 a.m.

-LA Times



(This guy is ****ed. You should read some of the fans messages on a MJ forum I signed up on--he better run for his life.)

[ImpactBreaker]

Well, if these facts are true, it indeed is a homicide. No ethical doctor would EVER prescribe propofol as the sole purpose of making someone sleep because they have insomnia. Propofol is an anesthesic, and it's only useful purporse in medicine is for being used/prescribed is to sedate a patient in order to do a painful/disturbing procedure so that they won't really feel/remember it and so that they can relax. It needs constant monitoring while it's being used as well.

Unfortunately, this doctor just gave in for the money he received from Michael in order to feed his ambition. While I can't say Michael isn't at fault for his own death, I can say that, if this doctor were a person who vowed to do his profession ethically, he would never have used these drugs for the purposes of feeding Michael's addiction. In this case, there's a Michael's song that fits this perfectly:

MONEY


Money.
Money...
Lie for it
Spy for it
Kill for it
Die for it
So you call it trust
But I say it's just
In the devil's game
Of greed and lust
They don't care
They'd do me for the money
They don't care
They use me for the money
So you go to church
Read the Holy word
In the scheme of life
It's all absurd
They don't care
They'd kill for the money
Do or dare
The thrill for the money
You're saluting the flag
Your country trusts you
Now you're wearing a badge
You're called the "Just Few"
And you're fighting the wars
A soldier must do
I'll never betray or deceive you my friend but...
If you show me the cash
Then I will take it
If you tell me to cry
Then I will fake it
If you give me a hand
Then I will shake it
You'll do anything for money...
Anything
Anything
Anything for money
Would lie for you
Would die for you
Even sell my soul to the devil
Anything
Anything
Anything for money
Would lie for you
Would die for you
Even sell my soul to the devil
Insurance?
Where do your loyalties lie?
Is that your alibi?
I don't think so
You don't care
You'd do her for the money
Say it's fair
You sue her for the money
Want your pot of gold
Need the Midas touch
Bet you sell your soul
Cuz your God is such
You don't careYou kill for the money
Do or dareThe thrill for the money
Are you infected with the same disease
Of lust, gluttoney and greed?
Then watch the ones
With the biggest smiles
The idle jabbers...Cuz they're the backstabbers
If you know it's a lie
Then you will swear it
If you give it with guilt
Then you will bear it
If it's taking a chance
Then you will dare it
You'll do anything for money...
Anything
Anything
Anything for money
Would lie for you
Would die for you
Even sell my soul to the devil
Anything
Anything
Anything for money
Would lie for you
Would die for you
Even sell my soul to the devil
Anything
Anything


The saddest thing is, if this Murray hadn't give in for huge ammounts of money in order to do his profession irregularly, other "sold for money" physicians would have done that anyways

[JackieRos]

i just heard that today for me i believe it

[Sundae]

I hope those other doctors get in trouble too. We have too many doctors like this. They make enough money as it is. How much more do they need?

[fantasma3c]

Its not only about making money always. It's about making the patient happy. What some people don't get is that either way if you don't make the patient happy, you get in trouble, and when you do you WARN them what are the side effects. And well see the doctor tried to get him off it without him knowing. But meh it happens. MJ is gone and hes living it better.

[ImpactBreaker]

Originally Posted by fantasma3c

Its not only about making money always. It's about making the patient happy. What some people don't get is that either way if you don't make the patient happy, you get in trouble, and when you do you WARN them what are the side effects. And well see the doctor tried to get him off it without him knowing. But meh it happens. MJ is gone and hes living it better.

I'm not bringing that into a controversial point. Giving support to someone is not just giving in to what they want. A good parent is not that who just give gifts and praise their children, but also knows the right moment when they also need limits to be pushed. A good doctor is not just the one who says their patients are right in everything they do and give in to every single need they want. There's a reason why certain medications are for controlled use, and even doctors need to have a special registration and their prescription needs to be supervisioned. A doctor that just gives in to whatever their patients wants, to the point of destroying and killing them, and also by that affecting several other people, like michael's children, surely is a criminal that only thinks about money and don't really care for any "happiness", because they can't see the bigger picture, they just cna see the michael desperately paying them to illegaly provide drugs that can only be used for specific medical purporses that michael didn't really have. I still can't understnad how propofol appeared in this contest if not just to satisfy an addiction, which is osmething doctors should treat instead of feeding. The treatment of a drug addict is not just giving them happiness by saciating their abstinence with the same drugs they're getting tolerance and dependency so that they can sink the rest of their lives into profound addiction til they die and destroy their lives and that of others. And getting rid of a disorder that causes a lot of suffering sometimes need extra effort and some suffering as well, unfortunately, is not just about being happy if you want to achieve health (for instance a person who has cancer and wants to live has to go suffer through the horrible chemoterapy sessions and someone who has HIV has to take all those drugs full of terrible side effects in order not to develop or suffer form AIDS complications so soon).

Michael was clearly debilitated from his addiction to these potent medications. I was thinking he might have had a terminal disease, reason why the doctors were a little lax about the medications they prescribed since he'd supposedly die anyway(just like a doctor gets lax about prescribing high doses of morphine to a patient with terminal cancer, since treating their pain and suffering is definitely by far more importqant than any addiction and is perfectly justifiable in these cases), and in that case, maybe I'd be able to understand the ocncept of providing happiness by lessening the suffering (with the extremer caution not to end up killing him though, because that would jump out of the purporse). Apparently his necropsy showed no signs of other ilness though.

[fantasma3c]

^What your saying is its not homicide its assisted suicide. And think well that not everyone believes in ethics. And not everyone lives forever
Oh and as you said "apparently" who knows if they will ever tell the truth about what's really going on. Right?

[ImpactBreaker]

Originally Posted by fantasma3c

^What your saying is its not homicide its assisted suicide. And think well that not everyone believes in ethics. And not everyone lives forever.

Well this doctor prescribed and injected or made someone inject these drugs in Michael, ultimately killing him. Whtether it was homicide or assisted suicide, it seemed more like an unitentional homicide (dunno how's tat called in US). I don't think Michael Jackson wanted to die, but just wanted to have his symptoms eased. The doctor however used angerous stuff that could kill him, was careless about it and ultimately lead him to die. That's homicide on my list. Euthanasia is the name of assiting a patient to die, but that's one controversial issue that I won't be commenting and that if I'm not mistaken is considered a crime in many countries out there (whether some people think is wrong or right, should be allowed or not, lies the controversy, and i won't be talking about it here). And yeah, not everyone lives forever, but there's really a difference in someone dying because nothing more could be done, or them dying because someone did something that shortened that person's life, and that could have been avoided. The types of medications that were used are medications to be used in a hospital enviroment because they pose serious health threats that might demand emergencial intervention. No sane doctor would be freely playing with these in a house with no advanced support available

Well, the truth we might never know indeed. It's all assumptions based in a few clues (that might as well be biased). The evidences don't see too favorable that this doctor was doing something nice though. I might be harsh and unfairly judging this doctor, but it's hard to understand the concept why he was palying with oil & fire in a palce where he didn't have the tools to put the flames down.

And about some people not believing in ethics. Medicine is a profession that relies on ethics. People who don't believe in them shouldn't be working as physicians in first place, and should look for another job, since the regulations of the profession are in the majority ruled by ethical purporses. This doctors patients might not believe in ethics, and that would be ok, but if he doesn't, he doesn't have a palce in being a doctor.

[fantasma3c]

Originally Posted by ImpactBreaker

And about some people not believing in ethics. Medicine is a profession that relies on ethics. People who don't believe in them shouldn't be working as physicians in first place, and should look for another job, since the regulations of the profession are in the majority ruled by ethical purporses. This doctors patients might not believe in ethics, and that would be ok, but if he doesn't, he doesn't have a palce in being a doctor.

Tell that to lawyers, crooked cops, crooked docs, and crooked erhm well ppl. Ethics is only a key when ppl feel its right. Always remember not everyone is the good guy

[emi♡]

This is why I hope they put doctors on salaries and why the healh care system in my country sucks balls. But won't get into it.

But I think, you know, it's really hard with Celebrities. We don't see half the crap they do. I remember Megan Fox talking one time how like, when she became famous, they took her to this place and she couldn't believe how many people were doing cocaine, she said we'd be surprised by who exactly was doing it too.

Rules are always different to people who have the unlimited power to live above them.

Like Impact said, if that doctor hadn't done it, another one would have instantly taken his place.

I'm personally surprised he didn't have more than one doctor monitoring him.

[Namie♡TOP SECRET]

That guy is so ****ed up in the head.

Anyway, as LaToya Jackson said

Originally Posted by LaToya Jackson

To everyone around him he was a cash cow and everyone wanted his money

Wise words LaToya.

[Lanz16]

^ LaToya was right, everyone needs his money. That's it.

He lowered the dosage to 25 milligrams and mixed it with two other sedatives, lorazepam and midazolam.

Surprising revelation! O_O"

[Aozora]

Honestly, this is the sad state America is coming to with healthcare. So many doctors seem to jump to prescriptions and such to cure things that could honestly be cured with much more natural, psychological, or even light medicinal methods. I wouldn't consider insomnia a drastic condition. There are many other ways he could have gone other than powerful sedatives.

I wouldn't call it homicide though. Just poor decisions by a doctor. We don't know his whole background story so I'm not going to jump to conclusions and say he was in it for the money. But I do know that there were much better ways it could have been handled. If Michael Jackson truly was addicted to it and demanded it, I'd say he's just as much at fault. The doctor should have known better... but, like I said, I wouldn't call it homicide.

[Lanz16]

Mixing different strong and powerful medicine on a exclusively prescribed drug is a risky (or deadly) thing to do as a doctor.

For me, it wasn't really a homicide but a doctor's mistake.

[fantasma3c]

^True that

Originally Posted by emiko

This is why I hope they put doctors on salaries and why the healh care system in my country sucks balls. But won't get into it.

But I think, you know, it's really hard with Celebrities. We don't see half the crap they do. I remember Megan Fox talking one time how like, when she became famous, they took her to this place and she couldn't believe how many people were doing cocaine, she said we'd be surprised by who exactly was doing it too.

Rules are always different to people who have the unlimited power to live above them.

Like Impact said, if that doctor hadn't done it, another one would have instantly taken his place.

I'm personally surprised he didn't have more than one doctor monitoring him.

Um he does... Hes monitored by 3 doctors and the health care system doesn't exactly suck "balls". And ugh Megan Fox gross

[emi♡]

^Oh he does have 3 doctors?

And, I don't need your comments on Megan Fox. Thanks. That wasn't the point of having an anecdote about her.

[4minute Girl]

that's so scary to him

[keikeiaznqueen]

Well, the doctor probably won't get into too much trouble by law judging from how you *do* have to take MJ's addiction into account, as well as how other doctors would have done the same thing if not worse.

If what the doctor said about him trying to reduce MJ's addiction was true (by reducing the amount of that drug he was giving him) then his case wouldn't be too weak. If he got sued but got a good lawyer he'd be fine. Of course, this is all only if he didn't lie. If he was found to have lied then that would be bad.

His biggest trouble would not be from the law, but from the diehard MJ fans.

[tasking]

Did anybody else hear that Conrad Murray (the doctor) was investigated a few years ago for something similar, or was I just imagining things?

[gothicayu]

They need to remove the licence from this guy . he is not a real doctor. anybody know you can't keep taking medecine evry hour and even less mix them together and do your own cocktail + any GOOD doctor have as a duty to say NO to his patient if he feel it coudl threaten the life of his patient . HE DOESNT DESERVE TO BE A DOCTOR . I HOPE HE LOOSE HIS LICENCE OR IS TAKEN TO A COURT .