Ayumi Hamasaki is the xxxxx of Japan

[Delirium-Zer0]

Ayumi Hamasaki gets compared to ALOT of different western artists - Britney Spears and Madonna come up alot. But she's really only the Britney in popularity, not in who she is. She's only the Madonna in scale - how big & flashy her shows are.

But what western artist REALLY has the most things in common with Ayumi Hamasaki? Forgetting about how popular they are, forgetting about the superficial things - thinking about an artist who, at their core, is very similar to Ayu.

I want you all to read what's under the spoiler. This is something I've written about A DIFFERENT SINGER - but it could all easily apply to Ayu. I've shared it with a few other people & gotten some interesting comments.

Spoiler:

She recorded & released an album before she got famous, but it's generally considered not very good. It sold VERY poorly - it's really hard to find nowadays, and it's considered to be a collector's item - fans will pay hundreds of dollars for a copy of it, or of the single that accompanied it. (Technically the CD isn't her solo, it's her as part of a group, but fans usually consider it part of her discography regardless).

She suffered some trauma before she got famous, and used the experience as inspiration for the very personal lyrics on her first solo album. Her lyrics are really what got everyone's attention. She was unusually frank compared to other artists at the time. Her first album sold more than a million copies in the artist's home country alone by virtue of this lyrical honesty, despite the fact that the album had a bit of a rough-but-unassuming pop/rock sound. The album gave no indication of the type of experimentation and maturation of sound that was to come later on.

After a few albums, though, she stopped really resonating with people and her sales dropped, even though she continues to be very personal.

Alot of people outside her home country know of her remixes. For a period of time, she was something of a club queen, having released several singles packed with dance remixes in Europe, and even having released some remixes only available on vinyl. She's been remixed by famous DJs like Armand van Helden, and even people who don't listen to her normal material often know her voice from hearing it in clubs.

She's also found success as something of a gay icon, not something she sought out to achieve, but something about her resonates with the LGBT community.

No matter how successful or unsuccessful she may be, music is absolutely her life, something she's completely devoted herself to. She experiments with various sounds, genres, and even lyrical styles - it seem she has a new sound with every album.

She's devoted to her fans, and tries to connect with them as much as she can. Her fans, who look to her as a type of support, send her messages, letters, and sometimes even gifts during big events and when something is happening in her life. They have a special relationship to her lyrics, and feel like the songs are a sort of therapy to them, like a friend talking them through hard times, and the fans love to return this favor any way they can. The singer uses concerts as a way to sorta have a huge conversation with her fans - they all get to hang out and bond together over the course of the show.

Her concerts are, according to nearly everyone who's seen one, singular experiences. Watching her personality come out onstage is hypnotic to all in attendance.

She is completely self-created. The image she projects to her audience is entirely her own work, something she has done meticulously, deliberately, and with consideration. She is the one who comes up with all her concepts, decides what she's going to wear, and decides how an album should sound. She respects the opinions of her closest friends & staff, however, and does take their advice when she feels they have a good case.

Every video is a very deliberate work of art. She collaborates closely with the directors to convey a very specific message, story, or theme.

While CD covers aren't usually quite so deliberate, the albums themselves usually have a common running theme going through them, either lyrically or sound-wise. Sometimes she starts the recording process with a theme in mind, other times, the theme sort of builds itself based on the type of person she is at the time.

One common theme used in videos and photos is the idea of multiple versions of this artist. She is shown facing herself, coming to terms with herself, etc. fairly often. There's often a polar duality between her two incarnations.

Her fans love her unique sense of fashion as well. What she wears in concerts and videos will become a trend among her fans.

She's worked with the same group of people for years and even though she's a solo singer, her band members and other staff are part of a big on-stage family that all the fans have come to know & love. Her guitarist, for example, is someone she's worked with since the beginning and all her fans know him.

She's got a touch of the crazy, sure, but this makes her charming to her fans rather than driving them away. Besides, her fans are a little nuts themselves - they follow her around everywhere, trace her career in exhaustive detail, and in some cases get ink to show their devotion.

What's interesting to note, really, are the differences. At their core, Ayu and this singer are very similar in how they approach things, as well as how the die-hard fans see them. However, marketing and production teams have caused them to go in two different directions.

One has gone on to sell 50 million albums, the other, only about 15 million. One is not taken seriously as an "artist" by the general public and is instead considered a pop star, while the other is absolutely an artist, and not a pop star at all. One has made insane amounts of money with CD sales, merchandise, cartoon versions of herself, and commercial endorsements. The other one would never be taken seriously if she did things like that.

They're both prolific songwriters who write honestly about their thoughts & feelings, with very unique and epic concerts, whose style changes all the time, and who are very much in control of their image. So then why has one become a pop legend, an icon and goddess to so many more people, and why has the other faded into underground, artsy obscurity over time?

Is it a cultural difference, where lyrical honesty is more appreciated and more of a selling point in Japan? Was Ayu just lucky she had the production team she did? Was Ayu lucky she debuted as early in life as she did (releasing poker face at 19 where the other singer released her first solo album at 28), making her more cute and more eligible as a teen idol?

What makes Ayu so much more marketable than the other singer?

Click on the spoiler to find out who the other singer is, and if any of you out there are fans of hers, let me know your thoughts.

Spoiler:

Tori Amos.

[noidea]

Wow, thats an really interesting topic, good read, thanks^^

[Crystal_Ageha]

That explained Ayumi perfectly--I couldn't believe you were talking about her!! I really don't know that much about that singer, other than a few songs she released. But if that's really how she is... Ayu is definitely the ___ of Japan. :O

Lyrics are certainly more appreciated in Japan - or maybe the Eastern world in general - compared to the US. In the US, to be famous, it's strictly about knowing somebody or having a crap load of money; to remain famous, you have to sell yourself out and go with the flow, not giving yourself hardly any room to be unique. But in Japan, as you can see with Ayumi, people get chances. Many get second chances (again, as is the case with Ayumi). And people can become and remain popular for various reasons, being lyrics (Ayu), image (Kuu), incredible fanbase (Namie), anime or video games (Nami Tamaki), side jobs as a producer or whatever in the industry (Zeebra), past experience (AI), collaborations (VERBAL)...and dozens of other reasons, including real talent or, yes, who you may know in the business. I also believe that age does play a huge factor in both the Eastern and Western world. We see "old" singers every day steadily lose popularity to seventeen year old rising stars who don't have nearly as much experience, and often not as much talent; those who become huge rarely are first known past early twenties.

In Ayu's case, I really believe that she got lucky. She was extremely fortunate to be picked up and given a second chance by a head of the overall biggest record label in Japan. At the time, her voice wasn't that good at all, she didn't have that great of an image, and nobody yet knew about her talent for writing. Ayumi deserves her success, but she was lucky to have gotten such a boost so quickly.
In the case of the other singer..... From what I've heard of her music, she's always been pretty non-mainstream, or at least different than what you'd normally hear on the radio. And her image is pretty plain. Nothing about her stands out at first glance (besides maybe her hair, hah), though she is a good singer and deserves more recognition. Her age didn't help, either, as I said before. She may have had a better chance in other countries, but considering she's an American artist, I'm kinda surprised she's known at all.

[TeddyGrahams]

It's funny how my ex loves Tori, while hates Ayu.

The Idol image really plays a role, because of how music has become ever so increasing image related. Ayu has the advantage in age and image.

We even have some fans here implying that if Sunrise/Sunset covers were better, the single would be better...

[Andrenekoi]

imo Ayu is like Madonna cuz they are controversal performers and singer-songwritters (yeah, Madge writes most of her lyrics too, and most of her hardcore fans can really relate themselves to her lyrics...) that are able to stay fresh over the years by having a tight control over their own images and by refusing to live from the past (thanks God both of them don't listen to their fans xD) They work almost in the same way, that's way imo they are very much alike

Tori Amos for sure is an amazing artist, but imo they do things on different ways... Ayu has created herself to be a pop icon, while Tori is a musician, but not a pop icon at all... IMO the "problem" with Tori is that the kind of music she does is made to appeal to a veyr specific public, while Ayu's (and pop music in general) is made to have a massive liking.

[Delirium-Zer0]

OMG you guys are posting such intelligent thiiinnngggs!!! Deli's tears are flowing like waterfalls!!

Thanks so much for your input so far, I'm soooo curious what sorts of things people will want to discuss here.

[Andrenekoi]

Btw, I hope i'm not being an ass, but A LOT of female artists fits this text about Tori... Most of those who archieve a legendary status have tight control over their own image and music, are said to be amazing live (well, fans always find everything amazing live) and release stuff that can be really hated by most of their following... Madonna, Beyonce, Bjork, Lady Gaga, Ayumi, Tori, Mylene Farmer, Emilie Simon, Barbra, Cher, Marisa Monte, Hikaru Utada, Ivete Sangalo, etc...

You need to be like this in order to be relevant =)

[noidea]

Originally Posted by TeddyGrahams

We even have some fans here implying that if Sunrise/Sunset covers were better, the single would be better...

NOOOOOO, if Sunrise/Sunset were better songs, the covers would be better! xD

[Miduhyo]

^^^ hahahhaha. Random but funny.

Anyway, you guys are expressing yourselves very well. I feel bad that I can't compare anything to anyone or vise versa since I don't know much about Tori. But I think there are many more artist in the world that have had this experience. We all in everyday lives just find a way to put aside our tragedies and put our stories into something maybe not Lyrics but we all find a way to put everything that's happened to us and put all that energy into something productive to our taste. Or at least that's how I feel!

[Delirium-Zer0]

Andrenekoi - you're KINDA being an ass, but.... not really. My point really isn't so much that Ayu is the Tori Amos of japan, but that no comparison is really gonna be accurate, you know? There's no point in saying "(j-artist) is the (so-and-so) of japan" because it ALL depends on marketing.

A record label could take a potential diva like either Ayu or Tori - who both obviously had very similar potential - and turn them into basically whatever they want. If one exec decides that someone isn't marketable, then they won't be. But if they really like the artist, they can really push them and turn them into a Madonna or Lady Gaga if they want. Keeping it with western artists, both Lady Gaga and Tori could write their own songs & play piano, why is Tori off in the background but Lady Gaga is the queen of top 40 radio right now? It coulda gone either way for both of them, really.

[Andrenekoi]

^Well, as I said... Tori choose to make a kind of music that apeals to a specific listerner... It's not that she isn't good or anything like that, but there is less people who like the way she works... and she knows it, and she releases stuff this public like

You can promote a product a lot, people are only going to buy it if they like it... there are amazing artsts that are popular with a smaller public, but they don't care cuz it what they want to do =)

Gaga's goal is to release mainstream music, and the same goes for ayu... it doesn't matter how personal they can go with their music, it still is mainstream and pop enough to have massive airplay. The good aspect of being an artist like Tori is that you can really release the most original and personal music u r able to, but you will need to sacrifice a wider audience in order to do so...

The most personal a song is, the less a random person is going to relate him/herself to it... That's why Ayu never write a song about a specific where the person is openly mentioned, for example... so, everyone that had a similar situation with someone can relate to the lyrics

btw, i'm not saying that one way or another is the best... imo the best is to do the better u can being it more or less mainstream

[StarSUCKER]

Very interesting! I would not have thought to make that comparison! I am a big Tori fan too. I think Tori has more indie appeal and Ayu has more pop appeal, but that's really just a product of marketing. They're both very independent women.

I am still not fully seeing a strong similarity, but the more I think about it, the more it makes sense.

[ccsharumun]

I really don't prefer to make those kind of comparisons, at least in the sense that "Ayu is the ___ of Japan". I feel like it's kind of disrespectful, because it's trying to interpret someone within the context of your own culture or country, when really they're something different altogether. Tori Amos and Ayumi Hamasaki might have a lot in common in terms of the musical careers, but I still feel that trying to fit one in the context of the other just doesn't compute.

Not saying this is what anybody is trying to do here. I know the whole idea is to raise the hype and our respect for Hamasaki as an artist, but I just thought I'd propose the idea that maybe it's a little counter-productive. Just let Ayumi Hamasaki be Ayumi Hamasaki.

[rakeru]

lol, when reading the similarities description, several artists were flashing through my mind, and at the end i thought "it sounds like Tori Amos, but it couldn't possibly be!" anyway, very interesting comparison.

[asmAyumi1992]

Now I can debate with my friends why Ayu is my idol. Your topic is truly Ayu! I love it.

[Not~Yet]

Originally Posted by ccsharumun

Just let Ayumi Hamasaki be Ayumi Hamasaki.

Yeah I kinda agree. Tbh, I don't think she can really be compared to anyone else, she's the one and only Ayumi Hamasaki in my opinion. But, not saying this thread is bad or anything, I really enjoyed reading that and there was indeed quite a few similiarities. I wonder if anyone else will be able to come up with someone who can be disguised to seem like Ayu that well.

One is not taken seriously as an "artist" by the general public and is instead considered a pop star, while the other is absolutely an artist, and not a pop star at all.

This has always really annoyed me. I hate the "queen of jpop" nickname. It somehow gives the wrong picture. To me, she's a real artist.

[Crystal_Ageha]

I also agree that Ayu--no, every artist should just be Ayu, or whoever. But it is fun to compare sometimes and see who the closest counterpart is in the Western world, from the Eastern. Or whatever.

And she's the "empress."

[Lora-Ayu]

Two or three years ago, my brother made me watch a music video of Tori Amos. That time I don't know who she is. But the video and the message of her song were kinda striking and it left me "in deep thoughts" for days. Her lyrics, yes were indeed good, very personal and emotional... But somehow, not most people could relate to her lyrics that easily compared to Ayu's.

What more, I don't think she aims to be a pop icon. She is definitely a very great music artist. (In my opinion... Number of sales doesn't really count to measure an artists true skills in making music.)

The comparison stated above was something new to me somehow (I mean, I used to read things about the comparison of Ayu and the other prominent western artists... And they just talk about popularity and sales. This one compared inner stuffs... With another artist. )

Here, I read something really great. Thanks for sharing.

Ayumi Hamasaki is Ayumi Hamasaki, yes I agree.


"God sometimes you just don't come true...."

[MissElin_]

This is truly a really interesting thread to read.

I felt really... (how to put it?...) pleased with what Deli wrote about "the other artist". I really just heard "Ayu" banging in my head. I have no idea of Tori Amos and how she works. I just know that my friend listends to her and finds great comfort in her songs. When I come to think about it, we both went though some rough times and the one who helped my friend to pic up herself was Tori, and in my case it was Ayu. So in that way I can understand what makes them simillar to each other. The fans devotion to them both is huge and reaches so much love and respect. For the way their fans loves them, and how they love their fans back in return.

Then naturally on the outside, they are very diffrent. Tori is Tori. Ayu is Ayu.

But as a conclusion. I am very found of artists who works this way, this hard, this devotion to themselves and their fans. I will always give them my deepest respect.

[Keiichi_JPU]

Before I read the spoiler I thought you were talking about Gwen Stefani!


I don't know Tori Amos, so I can't contribute my thoughts, but it was interesting to read