Ayu's dancer Hide has changed sex from man to woman

[TeamAyu2004]

I don't know...
I felt like we all were discussing stuff and not really trying to beat each other up like some people do.

I will say SB and I have gotten off topic, but its just right over the edge that it seems relevant? lol

(Oh! and SHAME on you for saying she hasn't had a good ballad not some time... lol)

[emi♡]

@sugarbasil yeah, I don't know if I want to touch this one.


lol I have spent way too much time at fetlife having these identity label discussions.

I guess when you consistently spend time around people who identify as all different things that include things like asexual, pansexual, gender fluid, gender *****, trans male to female, trans female to male, intersex, etc...

...and then there's even roles that you can be oriented toward. Dominant, submissive, top, bottom, brat, primal, pet...etc....

You just...stop labeling things

At least, you stop assuming things. I agree that labels can be important, because they make things easier, but yeah. I can identify as one thing, and someone else can identify as the same...and we can be totally different.


As far as research on sexuality goes, I respectfully look at it with an open mind, but I couldn't care less about research methods or results.

You could survey 1000 people and find them all the same, and then survey another 1000 and find them all different.

Everyone is different.


The best way to live life is to love people for who they are instead of what they might be.

[primavera♥]

I think categorization in helpful in society. It makes things easier. It just also causes problems. Isn't that the case with everything. A progress paradox of sorts?

I feel that we humans make life so complicated with how developed we are.

If people could learn to practice being aware of the assumptions made from our subtle stereotyping and stuff, then our lables and etc wouldn't be as much of a problem when it comes to judging people on an individual basis.

[koumori]

This is off-topic if you're strict on things, but it's an interesting discussion that people are having respectfully, that is by all means still related to the first post. It's been nice reading the different points of view.

[henrydawg87]

I am happy for Lico. Congratulations to her.

At first, I was hesitant about posting in this thread.

I am transgender.

I think the only thing you can do for a transgender person is be supportive and try to understand the person. I think what is both amazing and frustrating about being “transgender” is that there is no single “definition” of what transgender means. It really depends on the person, and when in doubt, respectfully ask.

I think when people say, “She looks like a man,” that’s just a superficial and unfair way of denying who a transgender person is. I think it disregards the difficult decision a transgender person has to make. It completely discounts the fact that, when a transgender person transitions, he or she is also inviting discrimination and ignorance upon him- or herself.

Moreover, the decision to transition depends on money. It costs a lot of money. Some transgender people, whether they like it or not, have to watch their bodies mature in ways they don’t want—simply because they can’t afford to do anything about it. I’m not saying this what happened in Lico’s case, but I think it’s what a lot of people don’t realize. So to point out that “she looks like a man” completely misses the point.

I guess people who make those comments assume they know what a “man” and “woman” looks like. Ken and Barbie, right? What’s really sad is the “she looks like a man” comment is an everyday occurrence.

Biologically speaking, society decided that there would only be man and woman. Doctors are the ones who decide whether the baby is a “boy” or a “girl.” But what happens when the doctor decides that the genitalia is “too small” to be a boy (like Ken) or that it is “too big” to be a girl (like Barbie)? Most times, the doctor will just operate and “fix” the “problem.” I don’t see how a doctor and his or her subjective opinion should control the future of a child. What if a doctor guesses—literally—incorrectly? Poor child.

Honestly, it just boils down to how a person responds to people who are “different,” whether it is race, religion, sex, gender, sexual orientation. Whatever. I would hope that anyone’s reaction involves respect and understanding. If not, then I guess that just reveals what type of person you really are.

[jean-baptiste]

Originally Posted by henrydawg87

I am happy for Lico. Congratulations to her.

At first, I was hesitant about posting in this thread.

I am transgender.

I think the only thing you can do for a transgender person is be supportive and try to understand the person. I think what is both amazing and frustrating about being “transgender” is that there is no single “definition” of what transgender means. It really depends on the person, and when in doubt, respectfully ask.

I think when people say, “She looks like a man,” that’s just a superficial and unfair way of denying who a transgender person is. I think it disregards the difficult decision a transgender person has to make. It completely discounts the fact that, when a transgender person transitions, he or she is also inviting discrimination and ignorance upon him- or herself.

Moreover, the decision to transition depends on money. It costs a lot of money. Some transgender people, whether they like it or not, have to watch their bodies mature in ways they don’t want—simply because they can’t afford to do anything about it. I’m not saying this what happened in Lico’s case, but I think it’s what a lot of people don’t realize. So to point out that “she looks like a man” completely misses the point.

I guess people who make those comments assume they know what a “man” and “woman” looks like. Ken and Barbie, right? What’s really sad is the “she looks like a man” comment is an everyday occurrence.

Biologically speaking, society decided that there would only be man and woman. Doctors are the ones who decide whether the baby is a “boy” or a “girl.” But what happens when the doctor decides that the genitalia is “too small” to be a boy (like Ken) or that it is “too big” to be a girl (like Barbie)? Most times, the doctor will just operate and “fix” the “problem.” I don’t see how a doctor and his or her subjective opinion should control the future of a child. What if a doctor guesses—literally—incorrectly? Poor child.

Honestly, it just boils down to how a person responds to people who are “different,” whether it is race, religion, sex, gender, sexual orientation. Whatever. I would hope that anyone’s reaction involves respect and understanding. If not, then I guess that just reveals what type of person you really are.

Well said. Thank you for pressing through your hesitation and posting. That was very insightful.

[ImpactBreaker]

Originally Posted by henrydawg87

Biologically speaking, society decided that there would only be man and woman. Doctors are the ones who decide whether the baby is a “boy” or a “girl.” But what happens when the doctor decides that the genitalia is “too small” to be a boy (like Ken) or that it is “too big” to be a girl (like Barbie)? Most times, the doctor will just operate and “fix” the “problem.” I don’t see how a doctor and his or her subjective opinion should control the future of a child. What if a doctor guesses—literally—incorrectly? Poor child.

I think it's a little more complicated than just rushing to a surgery table. I remember from gynecology-obstetrics classes that when children are born with indefinite genitalia, the first attempt is to discover if a real health problem is present. Some can be life threatening hormonal deficiences. My professor was saying back then that in cases of intersex, the parents were adviced to raise the child to the closest gender the intersex led to, or to the more physiological one the condition generated and then as years pass by, they check with the child is maturing to be a boy or girl and get treatment accordingly (hormone replacement, surgery if necessary). I'm sure it's not a simple decision and not a decision taken by a single person, at a single specific moment and it has to be thouroughly discussed as the child develops with the help of a multidisciplinary team and the family. Obviously, though, a decision has to be made at some points. This is one of the parts of medicine that msotly intrigues me, because I think it's a really complicated matter and the decisions taken can have serious implications on the life of the affected person. She then proceeded to explain how gender and sex can be separated into so many complicated things: role, orientation, external genitalia sex, internal genitalia sex, chromossomal sex, and the list goes on. If you starting mixing combinations of those it can really drive someone crazy, and people who are ignorant in the matter will obviously fail to understand how extremely sensitive this matter can be. I was discussing with another doctor one of these days about something related and she seemed to have a very closed mind about sexuality matters. When I touched the subject of intersex, in order to show how she was being close minded, she sort of crashed and bugged, she couldn't just answer to it other than saying I was complicating things by pulling something that is relatively rare, and I told her that even no matter how uncommon intersex can be, that it exists and that she couldn't just dismiss it because she was unfamiliar with it.

[Chibi-Chan]

@henrydawg87: Thank you for posting! I really liked to read your post!

[sugarbasil]

Originally Posted by henrydawg87

I am happy for Lico. Congratulations to her.

At first, I was hesitant about posting in this thread.

I am transgender.

I think the only thing you can do for a transgender person is be supportive and try to understand the person. I think what is both amazing and frustrating about being “transgender” is that there is no single “definition” of what transgender means. It really depends on the person, and when in doubt, respectfully ask.

I think when people say, “She looks like a man,” that’s just a superficial and unfair way of denying who a transgender person is. I think it disregards the difficult decision a transgender person has to make. It completely discounts the fact that, when a transgender person transitions, he or she is also inviting discrimination and ignorance upon him- or herself.

Moreover, the decision to transition depends on money. It costs a lot of money. Some transgender people, whether they like it or not, have to watch their bodies mature in ways they don’t want—simply because they can’t afford to do anything about it. I’m not saying this what happened in Lico’s case, but I think it’s what a lot of people don’t realize. So to point out that “she looks like a man” completely misses the point.

I guess people who make those comments assume they know what a “man” and “woman” looks like. Ken and Barbie, right? What’s really sad is the “she looks like a man” comment is an everyday occurrence.

Biologically speaking, society decided that there would only be man and woman. Doctors are the ones who decide whether the baby is a “boy” or a “girl.” But what happens when the doctor decides that the genitalia is “too small” to be a boy (like Ken) or that it is “too big” to be a girl (like Barbie)? Most times, the doctor will just operate and “fix” the “problem.” I don’t see how a doctor and his or her subjective opinion should control the future of a child. What if a doctor guesses—literally—incorrectly? Poor child.

Honestly, it just boils down to how a person responds to people who are “different,” whether it is race, religion, sex, gender, sexual orientation. Whatever. I would hope that anyone’s reaction involves respect and understanding. If not, then I guess that just reveals what type of person you really are.

Thank you for sharing your experiences with us. I know you said you were hesitant, but I think we can all learn a lot from your post, so thank you.

I know there have been cases of people who's genitalia was surgically altered at birth with really bad results. I actually think, if I recall correctly, that there's a study out there that shows that in the vast majority of cases, it ends up making the person's life horrible. I know there was the John/Joan case not too long back...that poor man. I feel so bad that people have been put in these positions.

[truehappiness]

Just an addition to this...

http://www.s-b-c.net/topics/lico/

They have a page at a beauty clinic's site for Lico. I think they helped with the transitioning. Over the last three years, Hide had been researching about gender identity disorder and such before going to "PAI (Preecha Aesthetic Institute)" in Thailand to have the reassignment surgery done.

http://ameblo.jp/liconodayo/
https://twitter.com/CHELICOPY

Lico also has a blog and Twitter now if you want to keep up with her. She is still dancing!

This was also brought up/focused on because there was a TV program on Fuji TV's Super News about the sex change, it seems.

http://kakaku.com/tv/channel=8/progr...sodeID=598722/ (Search for LICO)

I would also say that a lot of the photos posted in the initial post are rather old because Lico looks rather feminine now that hormones and so on have had time to change her features. (The surgery happened at the very least about half a year ago... the photos in the first post are from when she was in Thailand doing the surgery, I think)



http://www.alltempo.co.jp/inst/4_lico.html

[Chibi-Chan]

^wow! She looks great!!! Love her eyes! So much for like a man....


Edit: I just remembered Kim Petras. I think as far as someone's story, who was born with the wrong sex, could be beautiful her's is beautiful. I really liked to keep up with her in the past to know if she was allowed to have her operation already with 16 or not. In 2007 she was in a German TV show, because she was just 14 and had hormonal treatment already since she was 12. Actually she was named Tim, but her parents supported her since she was 11 or 12, because they noticed how much panic she had to hit puberty. She was allowed to have her operation with 16 (in Germany it actually isn't allowed until 18) and can live like a normal girl.
Her wikipedia page by the way: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Petras
And her youtube channel (just noticed that she is singing now): http://www.youtube.com/kimmilinlein

[yoshino]

I didn't even know this person's presence. O_O

This just made me feel like, why the people surrounding Ayu is just......weird??

[Chibi-Chan]

^This just made me feel like, why are you just... so ignorant??

[TeamAyu2004]

^ Come on.
people can find it weird and not be ignorant.
I find it very weird that people can't feel comfortable in their own body, but I can also understand that people will do what ever it takes to make themselves happy and thats what counts.

[emi♡]

Originally Posted by yoshino

This just made me feel like, why the people surrounding Ayu is just......weird??

If by weird you mean beautiful, diverse, complex, fun, and interesting, then yes, I wholeheartedly agree.

[Delicious n Bold]

Originally Posted by yoshino

This just made me feel like, why the people surrounding Ayu is just......weird??

Ayu really attracts a wide variety of people. I think that, no matter who you are, you're welcomed around Ayu. And everyone is weird. I guess you can say that, being with Ayu, you can be 'weird' or 'yourself' or whatever you want to say. She's too nice of a person to really think bad about anyone, or at least I think so.

[Kanzaki]

That moment when men who changed their sex makes a prettier woman than myself

[Midori-chan]

Originally Posted by Delicious n Bold

Ayu really attracts a wide variety of people. I think that, no matter who you are, you're welcomed around Ayu. And everyone is weird. I guess you can say that, being with Ayu, you can be 'weird' or 'yourself' or whatever you want to say. She's too nice of a person to really think bad about anyone, or at least I think so.

My thoughts exactly!

And good for Hide! She looks great. And I love her outfit!

[Uemarasan]

Congratulations to him. I hope he lives a good life.

Personally, I prefer to refer to the person's original sex when using pronouns, since I believe that sex is something you cannot change except superficially speaking. There are only three as far as I am concerned and these are for life since sex is defined by biology: male, female, intersex. Gender and sexuality, that's left to the individual's mindset to define.

This is something I will hold onto until science has produced the technology that allows someone to generate their own body parts (womb, ovaries, reproductive organs) using their own cells as they correspond to their gender identity. Stem cell research appears headed in that direction.

Unless Hide himself expressly requests me to use the feminine pronoun to refer to him, I don't think I am beholden to do so. Political correctness and fear of social reprisal shouldn't dictate anyone's personal choices and actions. It didn't in Hide's case, and it shouldn't in my case either.

I'm not a homophobe (I am in fact a lifelong homosexual), but I've always believed that homophobes have the right to their opinions and should never be castigated for making them.

[Chibi-Chan]

^She wouldn't have changed her sex if she wouldn't want to be a woman and treated like a woman and therefore called like a woman.

And to the 'homophobes have a right to their opinion' thing, there is a saying you can often read on stickers or posters here in Germany, it says "Racism is not an opinion, it's a crime", I think that goes for all inhuman opinions.