Discussion: Ayu Critique

[rusuke]

I had listened to the trailer before and I'm sorry I hated it. Her singing is just like she's having the duck lips and it's weird to listen to her words. Is she doing that on purpose or is that how she sings now? Kinda lost track on her newer releases. Gosh those "uuuu". The song is good to be honest but her singing just makes me cringe. No matter how I try to like it. Sorry Ayu.😔

[Chris85]

Originally Posted by rusuke

I had listened to the trailer before and I'm sorry I hated it. Her singing is just like she's having the duck lips and it's weird to listen to her words. Is she doing that on purpose or is that how she sings now? Kinda lost track on her newer releases. Gosh those "uuuu". The song is good to be honest but her singing just makes me cringe. No matter how I try to like it. Sorry Ayu.😔

That's why I don't listen to it again and why it will never be as iconic as Mirrorcle World or Talkin' 2 myself for me for example.

[KittyKathy]

^^My thoughts exactly.

[koumori]

Her singing voice changing and having to adjust over time is likely a huge contributor to why we don't get new music from her. It's literally the theme of 23rd Monster, that she has to let go of old standards and embrace who she is now.

It's not to say critique is unwelcome, it's... going to happen on AHS, but when I see comments like "x will never be as iconic as (old hit) and (old hit)" (from over 10 years ago), it just makes me feel the underlying opinion there is that you don't support Ayu. Ultimately, I feel everyone who is still active here should at least support and appreciate her more recent efforts and the struggles she writes about so openly to the listening audience. It gets frustrating to still want to engage with a forum that is meant to be for her fanbase when a lot of the criticism is said without seeming to pay attention to her current circumstances and challenges as an artist.

It's fine to compare to her previous work, it would be weird of us all not to, but the angle with which we do so is important. I'm really happy with 23rd Monster and her vocals, although her singing style has definitely changed, and I do find it interesting when people comment on that and try to describe how - but it's less interesting and more draining when people use their energy to then needlessly compare and drag down her potential now. If you're not bothering to read and sympathise with her lyrics, I'm not sure why people are still following her as closely as to use a fan forum.

As an obligatory mention because I know some might take it like this - not liking her work and talking about that is different to not supporting her. You can't force yourself to like a new style of singing or her new work. But I've seen critique and comments that state that without losing the sentiment of appreciating the artist, and I feel that is the key factor.

[Chris85]

Originally Posted by koumori

Her singing voice changing and having to adjust over time is likely a huge contributor to why we don't get new music from her. It's literally the theme of 23rd Monster, that she has to let go of old standards and embrace who she is now.

It's not to say critique is unwelcome, it's... going to happen on AHS, but when I see comments like "x will never be as iconic as (old hit) and (old hit)" (from over 10 years ago), it just makes me feel the underlying opinion there is that you don't support Ayu. Ultimately, I feel everyone who is still active here should at least support and appreciate her more recent efforts and the struggles she writes about so openly to the listening audience. It gets frustrating to still want to engage with a forum that is meant to be for her fanbase when a lot of the criticism is said without seeming to pay attention to her current circumstances and challenges as an artist.

It's fine to compare to her previous work, it would be weird of us all not to, but the angle with which we do so is important. I'm really happy with 23rd Monster and her vocals, although her singing style has definitely changed, and I do find it interesting when people comment on that and try to describe how - but it's less interesting and more draining when people use their energy to then needlessly compare and drag down her potential now. If you're not bothering to read and sympathise with her lyrics, I'm not sure why people are still following her as closely as to use a fan forum.

As an obligatory mention because I know some might take it like this - not liking her work and talking about that is different to not supporting her. You can't force yourself to like a new style of singing or her new work. But I've seen critique and comments that state that without losing the sentiment of appreciating the artist, and I feel that is the key factor.

Wow, the censorship is on. Sweet. Am I supposed to kiss her butt to show "support"?
I made a comparison because just like 2 abovementioned songs the new one is in the same style, style that I like, but the voice prevents me from enjoying it.

[njanjayrp]

^ that’s what I’ve always wondered. People can use the “I still enjoy her past releases” as an argument, but really an ayu from 10 years ago isn’t releasing music it’s the 2021 ayu, who despite the many challenges and her voice deteriorating still manages to release awesome music. She was never the best of vocalists and her singing was very inconsistent through much of her career, yet she is still very capable of producing great stuff.

I am sure that 16 years ago people were saying how talkin’ 2 myself wasn’t as iconic as SURREAL and how they could not listen to her voice which was most certainly different even then.

[maxikot]

^^^ I share those thoughts. Not so long ago I saw an opinion where somebody said they're still hoping ayu might show "it" cause "it" is still in her. To me it's similar to inflicting pain to yourself, just living in the past and spreading not that nice energy to people who enjoy current releases. Not saying it's about all people being critical, but few tend to be on the negative streak. I also think about this forum as a place where I want to find companionship in joy of following ayu's activities and I still do. I see a lot of supportive and kind users and that makes me really happy. I've learned a "look other way" policy when somebody is criticising ayu in a way I find inappropriate. I'm fine when people are respectful and express their thoughts in a civil way

About the song, where do you think we might get the full video? Every week I keep hoping "It's this Friday! For sure!"

[Andrenekoi]

How did this discussion get to this? lol...

I remember I liked the song, but I didn't listen to it much because I'm not listening to much music lately. People trash her releases and compare them to something from the past since the first day I started posting on her, and this is over 10 years now.

I do agree though that expecting her to release something like her stuff from 10 years ago is completely useless. People change, perspectives change, voices deteriorate and above it all she is constantly losing her hearing over the years, and this for sure affects the amount of imput and innovation she can put on her production, as much as probably it's the reason she doesn't listen to new much at all.

You can either accept things as they are and that Ayu must fight issues that are way out of her control and that this affects her work, or keep on getting frustrated for as far as she releases music.

[KittyKathy]

I don't know what this is about. Does she really not hear herself well, since she can't hear in one ear, and she has started to lose her hearing in the other ear, so she can't hear how horrible she sounds, or is there no one who wants to tell her that this sounds very bad. Or does she hear herself but she doesn't care? I don't know. But it is impossible to listen to this song with enjoyment. As a fan of hers, I want to enjoy her new songs, but I can't. What can I do? I will enjoy her older songs and tours, which fortunately there are many.

[chocopockymaster]

Originally Posted by KittyKathy

I don't know what this is about. Does she really not hear herself well, since she can't hear in one ear, and she has started to lose her hearing in the other ear, so she can't hear how horrible she sounds, or is there no one who wants to tell her that this sounds very bad. Or does she hear herself but she doesn't care? I don't know. But it is impossible to listen to this song with enjoyment. As a fan of hers, I want to enjoy her new songs, but I can't. What can I do? I will enjoy her older songs and tours, which fortunately there are many.

Have you ever stopped to consider that maybe the problem people have with you is not your opinion, but the way you express it and state it as though it’s an indisputable fact?

Fact: Her hearing loss has worsened in recent years.
Fact: Her singing technique has undergone noticeable changes.
Not a fact: “It’s impossible to listen to this song with enjoyment”

You are entitled to feel however you’d like about the song. Hell, you’re entitled to hate it if you really want to. What you’re not entitled to do is throw around accusations of censorship when that’s not even remotely what’s happening here.

[KittyKathy]

Originally Posted by chocopockymaster

Have you ever stopped to consider that maybe the problem people have with you is not your opinion, but the way you express it and state it as though it’s an indisputable fact?

Fact: Her hearing loss has worsened in recent years.
Fact: Her singing technique has undergone noticeable changes.
Not a fact: “It’s impossible to listen to this song with enjoyment”

You are entitled to feel however you’d like about the song. Hell, you’re entitled to hate it if you really want to. What you’re not entitled to do is throw around accusations of censorship when that’s not even remotely what’s happening here.

Who are these people who have a problem with me? Anyway, the block button exists here.

Yes, the fact is that it is impossible to listen to her song with enjoyment. That is my fact. If you don't like it, that's not my problem.

[chocopockymaster]

Originally Posted by KittyKathy

Who are these people who have a problem with me? Anyway, the block button exists here.

Yes, the fact is that it is impossible to listen to her song with enjoyment. That is my fact. If you don't like it, that's not my problem.

It’s not anyone else’s problem either and yet you’re MAKING it a problem.

[Machiko]

Originally Posted by KittyKathy

so she can't hear how horrible she sounds, or is there no one who wants to tell her that this sounds very bad.

I don't want to say what I really want to say but — you get the general idea from this, I hope

[maxikot]

^ The thing is, I dig this song and can't say she sounds bad. That's a skip for you then, maybe whatever comes next will be pleasant for you, which I hope happens - no irony there

[AndyF]

I don't think it's bad or horrible, it's just different... I liked the song and I'm glad that she wants to release new stuff again.

[KittyKathy]

I didn't make a problem. Others have made a problem because they don’t like to read that someone doesn’t like something. I will end the discussion here. I have nothing more to say.

[Chris85]

Originally Posted by oaristos

Everyone here is entitled to think whatever they want, as long as they don't make it sound like it's an indisputable fact. It's so incredibly easy to say "I don't like this song very much" instead of "This song is horrible." Language matters.

I expressed my opinion clearly stating "for me", not making it sound like a fact, not trashing the song and I was basically told to leave the forum.

[koumori]

Originally Posted by Chris85

I expressed my opinion clearly stating "for me", not making it sound like a fact, not trashing the song and I was basically told to leave the forum.

My post was more "If you're not going to engage with the song on a deeper level than comparing her vocals to older songs constantly, why are you here?" It... was a genuine question. People are commenting on Ayu's new songs and saying she used to be better as if it's a choice she is making despite her literally telling us it isn't. Again, critiquing and comparing isn't the issue, but the tone that is had constantly on this subject is exhausting to engage with, and as I've said before - a forum only works if people actually write their posts in a way that invites conversation.

Should I just make a general critique thread? Is separating people into being able to seek out critique or vent rather than feel like the news thread is the best place for it the best thing to do? Maybe it would stop both sides being so exhausted and feeling forced to talk to each other.

[Chris85]

Originally Posted by koumori

My post was more "If you're not going to engage with the song on a deeper level than comparing her vocals to older songs constantly, why are you here?" It... was a genuine question. People are commenting on Ayu's new songs and saying she used to be better as if it's a choice she is making despite her literally telling us it isn't. Again, critiquing and comparing isn't the issue, but the tone that is had constantly on this subject is exhausting to engage with, and as I've said before - a forum only works if people actually write their posts in a way that invites conversation.

Should I just make a general critique thread? Is separating people into being able to seek out critique or vent rather than feel like the news thread is the best place for it the best thing to do? Maybe it would stop both sides being so exhausted and feeling forced to talk to each other.

Since when "engaging on a deep level" is a requirement? I liked the song, didn't like the vocals. That's why I said (unfortunately) this song won't be as iconic for me as some of the past songs in a similar genre (genre that I love). Your reply hurt me and made me leave the forum for month. So you can see how you invited conversation. Despite coming up with critique thread I still feel that honest opinions if they aren't praise are not welcome here.
If you can't tolerate comparisons with old Ayu despite appropriate contexts maybe it's your personal issue. And nobody was forcing you to talk.

Originally Posted by SunshineSlayer

I remember back in the day I got constantly attacked because I would point out that she was lip synching at various points -- which is now commonly accepted as fact -- and was crucified for it because no one wanted to believe back then that she would do such a thing.

I received so much hate for this. I was called obsessed, told that I had too much free time on my hands and other unpleasant things just because I was interested in that technical aspect of her shows (how much she sings live) and made comparisons based on recordings of multiple dates. Like it's OK to discuss her stage costumes and whatnot, but god forbid if you claim that she lipsynced here and there, no, she would never-ever do something like that!

As for being used to her new voice and her health issues: you know, years ago she said herself that will keep singing like a pro without making excuses; her vocals are inconsistent, she can do good now and then she can do bad next time, you never know for sure what you are going to get, so I'm not sure how exactly you can get used to that if her voice and singing style changes all the time. Like Dreamed a dream and 23rd Monster are both new releases, but sung differently.

[koumori]

Originally Posted by Chris85

Since when "engaging on a deep level" is a requirement? I liked the song, didn't like the vocals. That's why I said (unfortunately) this song won't be as iconic for me as some of the past songs in a similar genre (genre that I love). Your reply hurt me and made me leave the forum for month. So you can see how you invited conversation. Despite coming up with critique thread I still feel that honest opinions if they aren't praise are not welcome here.
If you can't tolerate comparisons with old Ayu despite appropriate contexts maybe it's your personal issue. And nobody was forcing you to talk.

You're still allowed to say those comments, as you can see from people still saying it in this thread. As I said in the original forum announcement, I acknowledge that people are using the forum for all kinds of different conversations and lumping them all into one thread just isn't working these days, and it isn't a question of just "learning to ignore each other". That just doesn't work.

I apologise that my original post addressing your critique of the song caused you to want to leave the community, although I didn't think my words were harsh at all. I was genuinely curious about what the answer would be. And in the end it has inspired me to create a place where people can have the option to just simply critique if they want to, or go deeper with it and actually discuss that, and so I hope that it opens up options from "Deal with your personal issues/don't talk" to "we have a thread to discuss exactly that", which is kind of what a forum is for. We have the space for it.

And yes, usually I don't post very often. I didn't realize that the post would set off such a discussion, and it has made me understand the current community better from reading all the different responses to it.