[Utada Hikaru] ʕ•̫͡•ʔ A Vacation for Only Two Hours in the 55th thread ʕ•̫͡•ʔ

[Miduhyo]

^

And we know she's found an amazing potato.

(I don't know what's with me and this freaking potato. Don't mind me.)

[Andrenekoi]

The funny thing about the whole "Ayumi is a over the top diva and Hikki is a girl next door" thing is that while Ayu was born poor and had to fight her way to stardom, Hikki was a rich kid whose parents always had conections in the industry. Not to say one deserve it more than the other (as I myself always liked Hikki more as a musician), but Hikki really had it far easier when becoming a popstar. Not that this by itself would give her the sales she got and still get, but it's easy to understand why she feel she can release music when she feels like it, unlike Ayu who sees her career as a, well, career.

About Gackt and Hikki's lastest releases being stronger releases than MIJ, that happens when you take your time to release your stuff and doesn't need (or feel you need, we don't know) to release a new album every year. Gackt and Hikki could get their times into crafting the sound they felt like, while Ayu depends entirely on having the right inspiration to release an amazing album. I really liked MIJ, but I don't think it's one of her best. Still didn't give Fantome a proper listen.

Both Hikki and Ayu have a tight control over what they let the public see or not see about their private lifes, and both of them are +- private about what they do. For some reason people get bothered because Ayu is phographed with her significant others, even if the only thing we know about them is that they are together, without any other detail or insight about their private lifes. I disagree we know Hikki's views on LGBT issues because the was asked about it, during her american tour she threw those signed balls at the audience and the balls had pro-gay marriage messages on them. Her personal blog (does it still exist?) also gave a lot of insight over her world view and even let we know she had the hots for Rafael Nadal.

Originally Posted by Miduhyo

(I freaking loved Mad World until I saw her perform it. The fake crying... )

Unless she got really better at acting I don't think that was fake at all. Usually her fake crying doesn't affect her voice, you see the tears but she keeps singing with she same quality (or lack of) she already had through the song, while her voice really goes to hell when she gets emotional for real.

Originally Posted by EndOfTheWorld

I think she still is struggling with the direction she wants to take her career. She seems to keep trying different things recklessly and hoping that she ignites that fire again.

She always did that, even during her peak, and so does Hikki. The difference here is that Hikki has 8 albums released through 18 years while Ayumi has twice the albums released over the same time spam. It's no surprise people feel like the constant shift of direction from Hikki comes from inspiration while Ayu's come from desperation, but they are pretty much doing things the way they always did.

Still believe Ayu would benefit wonders of having a hiatus...

[Baco__]

Hikki also said Kuma is gay. I forgot that lol

[thinkingoutloud89]

Originally Posted by Andrenekoi

The funny thing about the whole "Ayumi is a over the top diva and Hikki is a girl next door" thing is that while Ayu was born poor and had to fight her way to stardom, Hikki was a rich kid whose parents always had conections in the industry. Not to say one deserve it more than the other (as I myself always liked Hikki more as a musician), but Hikki really had it far easier when becoming a popstar. Not that this by itself would give her the sales she got and still get, but it's easy to understand why she feel she can release music when she feels like it, unlike Ayu who sees her career as a, well, career.

About Gackt and Hikki's lastest releases being stronger releases than MIJ, that happens when you take your time to release your stuff and doesn't need (or feel you need, we don't know) to release a new album every year. Gackt and Hikki could get their times into crafting the sound they felt like, while Ayu depends entirely on having the right inspiration to release an amazing album. I really liked MIJ, but I don't think it's one of her best. Still didn't give Fantome a proper listen.

Both Hikki and Ayu have a tight control over what they let the public see or not see about their private lifes, and both of them are +- private about what they do. For some reason people get bothered because Ayu is phographed with her significant others, even if the only thing we know about them is that they are together, without any other detail or insight about their private lifes. I disagree we know Hikki's views on LGBT issues because the was asked about it, during her american tour she threw those signed balls at the audience and the balls had pro-gay marriage messages on them. Her personal blog (does it still exist?) also gave a lot of insight over her world view and even let we know she had the hots for Rafael Nadal.


Unless she got really better at acting I don't think that was fake at all. Usually her fake crying doesn't affect her voice, you see the tears but she keeps singing with she same quality (or lack of) she already had through the song, while her voice really goes to hell when she gets emotional for real.



She always did that, even during her peak, and so does Hikki. The difference here is that Hikki has 8 albums released through 18 years while Ayumi has twice the albums released over the same time spam. It's no surprise people feel like the constant shift of direction from Hikki comes from inspiration while Ayu's come from desperation, but they are pretty much doing things the way they always did.

Still believe Ayu would benefit wonders of having a hiatus...

such a sophisticated post and I love it. Just adding to the last: There are artist who draw a piece like everyday and let it all out, and there are others who only let the best of the best get to the public. It is common to work different, not only in a creative job but on every task you get. Thats why school usually has different forms of getting the information to their pupils.

[inthezone]

Utada is bigger because she wasn't shoved down peoples throats as much as Ayu. Ayu released an album every year and multiple singles. Same thing happened to Koda Kumi. You need to have people anticipate your music, Namie and Utada did that.

[thinkingoutloud89]

^nah not necessarily,
Aye and Kumi are idols (the first more than latter).... Utah is an artist... Namie is just the Queen. Speaking of which, Namie just had luck and bit herself through hard times instead of following old formulas, ultimately earning her a fanbase of younger and - much more importantly - woman her age, that explain her high sales. Same as what was stated about Utada.

[amorphose]

[1999] A Song for xx / First Love / LOVEppears
[2000] Duty
[2001] A BEST / Distance
[2002] I am... / DEEP RIVER / RAINBOW
[2003] A BALLADS / Memorial address
[2004] Utada Hikaru: Single Collection Vol. 1 / Exodus / MY STORY
[2005]
[2006] (miss)understood / ULTRA BLUE / Secret
[2007] A BEST 2 -Black- / A BEST 2 -White-
[2008] GUILTY / HEART STATION / A COMPLETE -All Singles-
[2009] This Is The One / NEXT LEVEL
[2010] Rock'n'Roll Circus / Utada Hikaru: Single Collection Vol. 2 / Love songs
[2011] FIVE
[2012] Party Queen / A SUMMER BEST / Love / again
[2013] Love again
[2014] First Love -15th Anniversary Edition- / Colours / Utada Hikaru: Single Collection Vol. 1+2
[2015] A ONE / sixxxxxx
[2016] M(A)DE IN JAPAN / Fantôme

Ayu: 28 Hikki: 12

I think the difference in the public perception of them really is just because of how oversaturated Ayu has been over the years compared to Hikki. The personal lives of celebrities tend to be scrutinized more when they are actually in the spotlight, promoting something. As the list above shows, Ayu has over double the amount of "main" releases as Hikki does-- therefore her personal life has probably been over two times as scrutinized as Hikki's has.

I love both of them and I have for over 10 years! I don't think that will ever change... But I must say I really agree with those who are saying Ayu would definitely benefit from a hiatus. I honestly haven't enjoyed an Ayu album since "Party Queen." I found "Love again" so underwhelming that I didn't even listen to Colours and A ONE until earlier this year when M(A)DE came out. Aside from "Movin' on," I didn't find any of the songs on those three albums special either.

In my opinion, Ayu's best albums are definitely "MY STORY," (m)u, and "GUILTY." She took her longest time after "MY STORY" to release (m)u and I really feel that it shows because she followed up one of her best with another great one. Again, the break after "Secret" to spend the year promoting "A BEST 2" gave way to another really good album-- "GUILTY."

She hasn't really taken one of these breaks since "GUILTY" and this is when I found my enjoyment of her new music declining. Hikki would most likely have the very same problems if she released as much as Ayu has. There's no way to know for sure though.

I will always cherish Ayu's music pre-2010 and into the future I will continue to root for her to make a come back. I just think it would be a hell of a lot easier if she took a vacation and forgot about touring and making a new album for one year. In the words of Hikki, ditch the "artist experiences" for the "human experiences!"

-----

GAHH. I still really want to know when we're gonna get this new MV and which song it will be for!!!

[inthezone]

Originally Posted by thinkingoutloud89

^nah not necessarily,
Aye and Kumi are idols (the first more than latter).... Utah is an artist... Namie is just the Queen. Speaking of which, Namie just had luck and bit herself through hard times instead of following old formulas, ultimately earning her a fanbase of younger and - much more importantly - woman her age, that explain her high sales. Same as what was stated about Utada.

Ayu is definitely an artist rather than an idol

[dreamalley]

It's funny that everyone knows and agrees that all Ayu needs is a break to rest and improve... except Ayu herself.

Not even watching Utada taking such a long break is inspiring Ayu.

Though now that she draws close to her 20th anniversary it's unlikely she'll stop soon.

About Utada: I remember reading about her first marriage, to the Japanese movie director. I thought it was sweet that they grew closer when she had some health issues and surgery and he was there supporting her at the hospital. Then they married.
And in Utada United 2006 (my favorite live of hers) she was married to him and looking very happy.
My favorite MV of hers was directed by him -- Final Distance.

[voltron]

With regards to the type of music they release, there are also some really big differences. At this point in her career, I really feel like Ayu releases music with the primary intention of performing it live. That's why we get songs like The Show Must Go On, etc. -- they were built for live performances, not just to be standalone album cuts.

Hikki has never been a major touring artist, and so she approaches her music from a different standpoint. She is focused on the album itself as the output, the end-all-be-all.

And as for a hiatus...it might do Ayu good, but I'm not so convinced like everyone else. It's not like Namie really took a hiatus -- it was just that nobody wanted to see her, so she became really low-key. But she pretty consistently released music, and it wasn't until she just completely shifted directions that her popularity started to rise again. But Namie is an idol in the truest sense, so to be honest, she doesn't even belong in this conversation (and to be clear -- I like Namie).

[inthezone]

Originally Posted by voltron

With regards to the type of music they release, there are also some really big differences. At this point in her career, I really feel like Ayu releases music with the primary intention of performing it live. That's why we get songs like The Show Must Go On, etc. -- they were built for live performances, not just to be standalone album cuts.

Hikki has never been a major touring artist, and so she approaches her music from a different standpoint. She is focused on the album itself as the output, the end-all-be-all.

And as for a hiatus...it might do Ayu good, but I'm not so convinced like everyone else. It's not like Namie really took a hiatus -- it was just that nobody wanted to see her, so she became really low-key. But she pretty consistently released music, and it wasn't until she just completely shifted directions that her popularity started to rise again. But Namie is an idol in the truest sense, so to be honest, she doesn't even belong in this conversation (and to be clear -- I like Namie).

Do explain how she's an idol? She's almost 40

[Andrenekoi]

edit: Seiko is 54 and still is an idol, I don't think age is a problem here

I wouldn't call Ayu an idol either... Idols must have a mostly controverse-free image and tend to follow a mold through their whole careers (Namie for example, has a very clean image that is set around the ideal of a cool, sexy but classy woman that wears short skirts and high boots and dance. And this is what she has been doing for the last 20+ years). Not only Ayu frequently changes her image, she also push bondauries both on a cultural and on a aesthetic level.

As far as they propose to do (Ayumi being a controversial live performer and Hikki being a introspect and more intelectual studio artist), they both are at the same level of artistry, if there's even a way to determine that. I wish Ayu had gone through a hiatus back in 2008... And it's not that I'm disliking her releases, IMO it's almost a miracle she can release stuff with the quality she does considering how frequently she releases new music, and imo a bad release for Ayu's standart still is way above the average for the pop market, but letting the public miss her a little would be good for her image.

--

I took some time to listen to Fantôme, btw. I'm afraid I'm not impressed... Not that it's a bad release (and Hikki's bad is still good when compared to the rest of the market), but I found it to be... too safe, I guess? At least sound-wise, I like my Hikki alittle wilder and weirder . But it's a smart move considering she is just coming from a long hiatus... Something too different could pontentially alienate her public.

[inthezone]

That makes sense, however her musical style doesn't really seem idol like to me and her fanbase doesn't consist of old creeps and she doesn't do hand shake events (lol).
Namie is more of a superstar to me

[voltron]

It's also the sense that Namie is not of her own making. She goes in, sings some songs that have been chosen for her, and goes and promotes them. For Namie, I just get such a strong sense that music is her work...and then she goes home, and it's not like she's stressing over what to do next. She has a strong team around her that guides her every move. I'm not judging her -at all- for that, but that is basically everything that an idol is. She's not an artist, which is totally OK.

I like Fantome, but it's not very memorable for me (at least not yet). It's worlds ahead of her last two albums, which to me, were a departure in a direction I just wasn't really into. I wish there were a little more pop to this album, which I think would have made it more interesting. Like I said in another post -- this album feels like a very adult-contemporary version of Deep River to me.

[Andrenekoi]

An idol is more on the line of a celebrity with a tight controled image, trained by the agency to develop some talent, whose career is focused on catering to a specific public. Some academics categorize them as contemporary geishas on this sense^^ They don't have to be cute or young or followed by perverts, this is just a popular kind of idol right now

[inthezone]

Meh a "japanese idol" are members of AKB48 and the likes to me. The term idol obviously can mean many things, Utada, Ayu, Kuu etc are all idols to an extent, because many people idolize them.

And Namie is definitely more than you think, she's pretty much in control of her career right now, which is why she keeps releasing music.

[Andrenekoi]

^The term "idol" started being used back in the 70's, way before cute childish girl groups existed. Actually, idols used to have a low and deep voice and a mature image before Seiko made it big. Momoe Yamaguchi for example is one of the most respected female vocalists in Japan history, and she was basically an idol.



There's nothing wrong with being an idol and saying Namie is an idol doesn't mean she is talentless or something like that... But even her control over her career means she will hire the best team to keep her around more than it mean she will actually get herself in the creative process. There's someone on the forum who worked on the company that produced the Golden Touch PV and they made it very clear Namie had nothing to do with it. This is essentially being an idol.

[Baco__]

I also don't see Namie as an idol anymore. Although I have to study a little more - since andrenekoi has brought some interesting academics to this conversation -, speaking solely from a non-expert pov she is just like any superstar out there, in the same league as utada, koda, BoA (in Korea at least) or ayu tbqh. The difference between them is that they are actually producing their stuff, their own words and/or composition. Namie has said she composes and she writes, she just don't release the stuff (whether it's too personal or wouldn't fit her public its beyond me). Maybe when she dies and avex wants to make the most of her death? Haha but I don't think she is like that robot or a stooge for avex as some of you do (she has her own label, right? She has power inside that company, I presume). I think she's in control of everything and will do what she wants to and that's it. But then I may be wrong and she is a robot after all and I've been fooled lol

(that's totally out of the blue, but I just remembered that last semester in a Japanese Culture class my teacher actually talked about Namie and how she was the first female superstar with tattoos to be accepted, in terms, by the japanese lol and I never actually dreamt about listening to her name in the academic field lol)

EDIT: oh, well, andre said it all, just forget what I wrote hahaa totally forgot about the 60/70 and 80s idols.

[Miduhyo]

Originally Posted by Andrenekoi

Unless she got really better at acting I don't think that was fake at all. Usually her fake crying doesn't affect her voice, you see the tears but she keeps singing with she same quality (or lack of) she already had through the song, while her voice really goes to hell when she gets emotional for real.

Still believe Ayu would benefit wonders of having a hiatus...

Yes, dear God, she would. Like I've been saying all this time, just one year would do amazing wonders for her. just one. But it's Ayu and like dreamalley said, it's nearing her 20th, she ain't slowing down soon. But I hope after it she'll realize just how much she's done and go 'huh, I kinda need to take a break' (Knowing Ayu, that's unlikely but man she would benefit from it so much.)

However, we're going to have to agree to disagree on the Mad World performance. I got nothing. I felt nothing. I'm not saying it was insincere, but it still felt practiced to me. Maybe I'll try watching it again and seeing if I judged too soon but that's what I felt the first time around.

[oaristos]

Originally Posted by thinkingoutloud89

^nah not necessarily,
Aye and Kumi are idols (the first more than latter).... Utah is an artist... Namie is just the Queen.

I find it so sad that a creative mind like Ayu is considered a mere idol (I understand that she started off like that, but have long ago become a true artist) while Namie, a person who doesn't compose, doesn't write lyrics, doesn't do anything at all is considered "the queen." I love Namie's music and I really admire her popularity even though she's been around for more than 20 years, but some people here can't really complain about AKB48 if you think a performer like Namie is praised as royalty in the music industry for not doing anything besides being a performer, and looking "cool."