[Translation] [2013] ayu loses sales record to AKB48 (Article)

[tsumekaze_]

About the whole comparison ayumi hamasaki vs akb48.
I love both. But akb can't even stand the comparison with ayu, come on guys. They're just a bunch of idols who make cute songs. One must take them for what they are.
Ayu on the other hand is a full time producer, singer, ARTIST who grew up so much with nearly no help, while all the girls in akb are pushed in some way or the other.
I think it's just wrong and lacks respect to compare the two, or to compare ANY artist in the very sense of the word to akb. As long as I love them, the idea on which they are based is totally different from the usual artist and they really do not have to do much if not dancing to pre established dances and smile to get a bunch of votes. THERE are some girls who are worth it in there, and I repeat myself, I'm a big fan. But to talk about the whole unit of akb is ridiculous. Plus you can't really compare 90+ girls (if not counting the sister groups) to only ONE person who ruled the jpop panorama over the last 15 years (because even if she sells less she STILL sells a lot as a solo artist, probably second only to namie now)

About her tours being all the same in the last years. Sure, she has some "staples", but I can't really see how AT12 is the same as RnRC tour, for example. I think, as many stated, that ayu has found herself, what she likes, what she wants. There are some things which we may dislike (the tissue performance? ugh THAT'S ENOUGH AYU) but it's her choice and if she keeps displaying it it doesn't mean her tours are going to be all the same, there will always be something which changes. It's just her being coherent and cohesive to her idea of creativity.
I got to know ayu in 2009 and I personally LOVE all her tours from 2008 onwards, till now. Better than some old ones, at times. Or just, I regard them differently. Why people assume that if they don't like her newest stuff then she's the problem? there are people out there, me included, who enjoy her recent stuff very much. Maybe the problem isn't ayu's music, maybe her music is no longer what those people are searching for. Ayu is a person, not a personal jukebox. She can't please anyone and will keep doing stuff according to her own taste and that's why I love her and respect her.

[Andrenekoi]

Originally Posted by tsumekaze_

About the whole comparison ayumi hamasaki vs akb48.
I love both. But akb can't even stand the comparison with ayu, come on guys. They're just a bunch of idols who make cute songs. One must take them for what they are.
Ayu on the other hand is a full time producer, singer, ARTIST who grew up so much with nearly no help, while all the girls in akb are pushed in some way or the other.
I think it's just wrong and lacks respect to compare the two, or to compare ANY artist in the very sense of the word to akb. As long as I love them, the idea on which they are based is totally different from the usual artist and they really do not have to do much if not dancing to pre established dances and smile to get a bunch of votes. THERE are some girls who are worth it in there, and I repeat myself, I'm a big fan. But to talk about the whole unit of akb is ridiculous. Plus you can't really compare 90+ girls (if not counting the sister groups) to only ONE person who ruled the jpop panorama over the last 15 years (because even if she sells less she STILL sells a lot as a solo artist, probably second only to namie now)

About her tours being all the same in the last years. Sure, she has some "staples", but I can't really see how AT12 is the same as RnRC tour, for example. I think, as many stated, that ayu has found herself, what she likes, what she wants. There are some things which we may dislike (the tissue performance? ugh THAT'S ENOUGH AYU) but it's her choice and if she keeps displaying it it doesn't mean her tours are going to be all the same, there will always be something which changes. It's just her being coherent and cohesive to her idea of creativity.
I got to know ayu in 2009 and I personally LOVE all her tours from 2008 onwards, till now. Better than some old ones, at times. Or just, I regard them differently. Why people assume that if they don't like her newest stuff then she's the problem? there are people out there, me included, who enjoy her recent stuff very much. Maybe the problem isn't ayu's music, maybe her music is no longer what those people are searching for. Ayu is a person, not a personal jukebox. She can't please anyone and will keep doing stuff according to her own taste and that's why I love her and respect her.

I agree with you about everything but this. She actually was/is helped by A LOT of people, from Max to the producers who gave her the sound we know as hers, to both well known and unknown designers, directors and photographers, etc, etc, etc

Being a popstar is never a effort of only one person because it deals with a structure too big to one person alone to run, and she herself says that Ayumi Hamasaki is a brand with tons of people working to make it alive.

[tsumekaze_]

^ Yes, that's right now that I think about it... it's just that she got pushed more "secretly" whereas we know exactly when akb girls are being put in the spotlight or not XD What I meant more than what I actually said was that, nowadays, entering AKB is almost a sure path to become famous. That's because AKB is BIG now so if you want to become famous that is the most likely chance you'll have to succeed and as many of the girls (graduates mostly) in there say "akb is a platform to start, a transit to achieve your dreams"
So, excluded 1st generation members who worked to make akb famous, anyone who is entering in the new generations are already in the spotlight in a way or another, supported by the group name... then it's up to them if they become aces or not, but they have a very high chance to do so and most likely will. It's easier in some way because yes, you have to be liked but you already are put in front of million of people so it's def easier imo XD

Ayu tho was and is a solo artist, and when she started she had to make a name, start from "zero" with the public even though pushed... a bit like akb 1st generation members. Only that doing it alone it's more difficult I believe.

Idk if I explained myself well XD

[AyusakiFan]

Originally Posted by artcika

^i have a feeling when they're obsessive fans forget them, people asked if they know who they were will have no idea what to answer. they're just a phenomenon for sure, Ayu is a legend.

No, they'll be remembered because the whole female population of Japan would have been in the group by the time they're over. So if they ask a woman, they'll know because they were probably in the group at one point or another. Now will they be remembered for consistently releasing top quality music, which at the end of the day would be something worth remembering? No.

[Trinu]

Ayu had ir hard? Ayu had to go to the street at night and hand around flyers to see them tossed on the floor? Ayu was called the "panty-showing show"? Ayu had to combine the ordinary life of a high-schooler and the idol one even if nobody went to see you perform?

C'mon, compared to the first gens of AKB, Ayu had everything handed over to her when she was discovered at karaoke.

I love Ayu too, but I don't like how people talk about AKB as a "group of lolitas prancing around with fake smiles". It shows how little attention some people have put to them and how much they want to criticize for the sake of it.

So I'm just gonna leave a couple of their lyrics here so you can read them...

http://stage48.net/studio48/mokugekisha.html
http://stage48.net/studio48/yumenokane.html
http://stage48.net/studio48/imcrying.html
http://stage48.net/studio48/inochinotsukaimichi.html
http://stage48.net/studio48/suifuwaa...umewomiru.html
http://stage48.net/studio48/inochinoimi.html

... and now say "They're just a bunch of girls in bikinis singing non-sense".

Also, the AKB system is designed to stay relevant for years to come. Some wotas might graduate the fandom, but others will come and there will always be people who'll buy the singles to shake their favourite's hands.

And seeing how well received the new gens are, you can expect other 8 years of AKB topping the charts (and opening the Tokyo Olympics, if everything goes well).

[channy]

Originally Posted by tsumekaze_

it's just that she got pushed more "secretly" whereas we know exactly when akb girls are being put in the spotlight or not

The marketing around Ayu during her peak had been utter aggressive. Commercials for countless consumer products (cosmetics, junkfood, electronics), tv commercials for every single single/album release, advertisements in cities everywhere, promotional appearances in nearly every Japanese tv show on an almost daily basis (plus ayu ready?), her face on every single teen magazine.

Ayu is virtually the epitome of an industrially branded, constructed and hyped advertising figure and the key of that project was never limited to solely produce and sell music but also to create a face that could effectively convey the product messages of other companies in the business. It's not really about music after all.

[Bigtop]

Originally Posted by channy

The marketing around Ayu during her peak had been utter aggressive. Commercials for countless consumer products (cosmetics, junkfood, electronics), tv commercials for every single single/album release, advertisements in cities everywhere, promotional appearances in nearly every Japanese tv show on an almost daily basis (plus ayu ready?), her face on every single teen magazine.

Ayu is virtually the epitome of an industrially branded, constructed and hyped advertising figure and the key of that project was never limited to solely produce and sell music but also to create a face that could effectively convey the product messages of other companies in the business. It's not really about music after all.

How can we compare this (the yesterday) to today's AKB48 in some way?

[channy]

I was just pointing out that in fact Ayu's fame had never been built up secretly. It was a very well elaborated and planned rise in popularity from the moment when Avex realized the potential that is to say positive resonance from the market.

Tsumekaze claimed that AKB48 as a mass-girl-group would benefit from being hyped by (whoever), when frankly, especially Ayu had been granted a huge opportunity back then, given the fact that Avex and the producer team in general made her big

[visionfactory]

Originally Posted by Trinu

Ayu had ir hard? Ayu had to go to the street at night and hand around flyers to see them tossed on the floor?

No, she didn't even have money to pay the rent for an own place OF COURSE she didn't have money to pay for flyers

Originally Posted by Trinu

Ayu was called the "panty-showing show"?

No, Ayu quit her job when she was told to seduce old men in order to get more jobs as an idol (Way before she debuted with avex), unlike AKB members that love to seduce old men, right?

Originally Posted by Trinu

Ayu had to combine the ordinary life of a high-schooler and the idol one even if nobody went to see you perform?

Yes, nobody bought Ayu's movies when she was an idol, she even quit high-school because of her problems.

Originally Posted by Trinu

C'mon, compared to the first gens of AKB, Ayu had everything handed over to her when she was discovered at karaoke.

Ayu had everything handed over? Excuse me but do you know that AKB manager is millionaire even before producing that group? Do you know he produced another "48 group" back in the 80s? Do you know that AKB manager is the president of an arts university and he uses free manpower of its students to design the 48+ clothes AKB members wear for every single event/covers/PV/etc. ? Who is the lucky one?

Originally Posted by Trinu

I love Ayu too, but I don't like how people talk about AKB as a "group of lolitas prancing around with fake smiles". It shows how little attention some people have put to them and how much they want to criticize for the sake of it.

So I'm just gonna leave a couple of their lyrics here so you can read them...

http://stage48.net/studio48/mokugekisha.html
http://stage48.net/studio48/yumenokane.html
http://stage48.net/studio48/imcrying.html
http://stage48.net/studio48/inochinotsukaimichi.html
http://stage48.net/studio48/suifuwaa...umewomiru.html
http://stage48.net/studio48/inochinoimi.html

... and now say "They're just a bunch of girls in bikinis singing non-sense".

Lol, they are just a bunch of bikini girls making fake smiles in order to please old men to buy zillions copies of their CDs. Did you know they don't even have a word on producing their music? That means that every single lyric that you posted there doesn't portray the girls feelings because it was written by an old men, you're pitiful, seriously..

Originally Posted by Trinu

Also, the AKB system is designed to stay relevant for years to come. Some wotas might graduate the fandom, but others will come and there will always be people who'll buy the singles to shake their favourite's hands.

And seeing how well received the new gens are, you can expect other 8 years of AKB topping the charts (and opening the Tokyo Olympics, if everything goes well).

Yes! The AKB system is so perfect that they already had their peak 2 years ago selling 8 million copies while Ayu had her peak in 2001 and sold 10 million copies for 2 years in a row!! talk about a perfect system, AKB sales has been going downhill since Acchan's graduation!!

Let me inform you about the current situation

AKB yearly sales
2010: 4,489,539 copies
2011: 7,960,753 copies
2012: 8,085,094 copies
2013: 6,972,118 copies <- NEW GENS ARE SO WELL RECEVIED!!!11
2014: 2,140,937 copies <- AKB WILL BE RELEVANT FOR YEARS11!11!

[primavera♥]

Originally Posted by Trinu

Ayu had ir hard? Ayu had to go to the street at night and hand around flyers to see them tossed on the floor? Ayu was called the "panty-showing show"? Ayu had to combine the ordinary life of a high-schooler and the idol one even if nobody went to see you perform?

C'mon, compared to the first gens of AKB, Ayu had everything handed over to her when she was discovered at karaoke.

I love Ayu too, but I don't like how people talk about AKB as a "group of lolitas prancing around with fake smiles". It shows how little attention some people have put to them and how much they want to criticize for the sake of it.

So I'm just gonna leave a couple of their lyrics here so you can read them...

http://stage48.net/studio48/mokugekisha.html
http://stage48.net/studio48/yumenokane.html
http://stage48.net/studio48/imcrying.html
http://stage48.net/studio48/inochinotsukaimichi.html
http://stage48.net/studio48/suifuwaa...umewomiru.html
http://stage48.net/studio48/inochinoimi.html

... and now say "They're just a bunch of girls in bikinis singing non-sense".

Also, the AKB system is designed to stay relevant for years to come. Some wotas might graduate the fandom, but others will come and there will always be people who'll buy the singles to shake their favourite's hands.

And seeing how well received the new gens are, you can expect other 8 years of AKB topping the charts (and opening the Tokyo Olympics, if everything goes well).

Of course I'm sure some members had their difficulties....and had shit pretty hard. Even if some things don't seem that bad to me, like flyers, as I've been in that situation, I know it sucks and it's discouraging, especially if a lot of things depend on support and success. And not everyone handles it well. Problems are relative so if someone says they had it hard, I go with it.

But are you really trying to say that ayu had it easy in comparison because she doesn't fit in a few examples from completely different people? It's interesting how at least we know those things about akb and can feel bad about it but how much does everyone really really know about ayus beginnings. Fyi, she had a career before avex. I'm sure you know that. There were iffy things that went on in her idol days. She also dropped out of high school, something some people have criticized her for. Lord knows what went on in those days. And even her early a ex days. Like, before her peak. But she has a success story, all the same. It's not a battle of who had it hardest. And you act as if ayu was never critiqued for anything because she was so loved. Not everyone approved of her image when she went topless and what not. And then god knows before she was really popular. Ijs, different people can have different difficult experiences, a lot of which, you may never know.

And it's not like ayu did no work at all to become a singer in the first place. She got lucky and got discovered by the right person. Sorry to the people who train their whole lives. At the end of the day, when something is critiqued about her package, it falls on her image, not just her and the team together. Being a solo musician with expectations from the label and the public isn't something everyone wants to or could handle.

[NintendoHTF1242]

Why are you guys bumping this thread and still attacking these girls this is so February.

[microphone]

Awww too bad she lost a record but she has lots of money coming out of her butthole so it's okay

[primavera♥]

Originally Posted by NintendoHTF1242

Why are you guys bumping this thread and still attacking these girls this is so February.

Idk why it's bumped. But the fact that either ayu or akb has to be put down to justify some subjective opinions is annoying.

Though I guess...fans do that with any artists. Everybody has haters.

[Trinu]

I was mainly talking about Ayu's career one she got discovered by Matsuura.
If we go into individuals, I can also talk about how Akimoto Sayaka had to spend days without eating cause her father had no job.
I'm talking about their careers, and I think that from the moment A Sonf for XX was released, she's had it pretty easy (except for some bumps in the road, with her health and such).

Originally Posted by visionfactory

Ayu had everything handed over? Excuse me but do you know that AKB manager is millionaire even before producing that group? Do you know he produced another "48 group" back in the 80s? Do you know that AKB manager is the president of an arts university and he uses free manpower of its students to design the 48+ clothes AKB members wear for every single event/covers/PV/etc. ? Who is the lucky one?

I do know all of that, but I wouldn't call AkiP a millionaire. He had success with Onyanko Club, but he didn't with Checkicco (and another one which nobody remembers). And as much as he wanted AKB to work, it was on the verge of disbanding for years.
And sorry, but nobody is forcing anybody to sew AKB outfits, but I'm sure if you were given the chance to make a dress for Ayu, you'd go running to the store, wouldn't you?

Originally Posted by visionfactory

Lol, they are just a bunch of bikini girls making fake smiles in order to please old men to buy zillions copies of their CDs. Did you know they don't even have a word on producing their music? That means that every single lyric that you posted there doesn't portray the girls feelings because it was written by an old men, you're pitiful, seriously..

Some of the girls DO write their own lyrics. Have in mind AKB is supposed to be the stepping stone in their careers, so it's normal that they don't start ahead with that.
But AkiP (the producer and writer) knows these girls and writes what they can't.
There have been many times where a member's said how touchful the lyrics are to them. Acchan had Mikigata, who is about her relation with Takamina. Paruru had Eien Pressure, about her new burden to carry the AKB name... guy knows his ways.

And seriously? Pitiful? You know that the moment you insult a person, your arguments are automatically invalid? Grow up, please.

Originally Posted by visionfactory

Yes! The AKB system is so perfect that they already had their peak 2 years ago selling 8 million copies while Ayu had her peak in 2001 and sold 10 million copies for 2 years in a row!! talk about a perfect system, AKB sales has been going downhill since Acchan's graduation!!

Let me inform you about the current situation

AKB yearly sales
2010: 4,489,539 copies
2011: 7,960,753 copies
2012: 8,085,094 copies
2013: 6,972,118 copies <- NEW GENS ARE SO WELL RECEVIED!!!11
2014: 2,140,937 copies <- AKB WILL BE RELEVANT FOR YEARS11!11!

You don't need to inform me of anything. I know pretty well AKB's situation.

In 2013 they "only" sold 1,112,976 millions less.

Wanna know why?
In 2012 there were just two big concerts: three days Saitama Super Arena (Acchan's graduation announcement) and three days in Tokyo Dome (Acchan' graduation), apart from the usual Request Hour and Kouhaku.

Wanna know how many concerts they had in 2013?
- AKB Fair at Budokan, where every group had its own concert + the whole 48 groups = 6 concerts
- KKS concert at Budokan
- Dome Tour around Japan: 2 days in Hakata, 2 days in Osaka, 2 days in Nagoya, 1 day in Sapporo and 4 days in Tokyo
And the usual Request Hour + Kouhaku.

Even if they sold one million less, they did much more.

And in 2014? They've just released an album and a single.
Today, btw, a new singles goes on sale, and it should sell another million in its first day.

I'd like to quote here something their producer and Yuko said regarding their popularity:

Akimoto: For me, I think AKB48 has an existence like karaoke. In 1990, karaoke was becoming amazingly fashionable, but now it’s something you can go to like it’s normal. I think it’s important for things to become normal like that.

Oshima: It’s true, it’s amazing when something’s existence is imprinted onto peoples' daily lives.

(whole interview: http://www.akblogs.net/article_trans...interview-aera)

So yeah, like it or not. Expect AKB to be around for many years. :*

[primavera♥]

I think if you're going to talk about things leading up to them getting successful in careers then you would also have to include steps ayu had to take to become successful in her career. And any problems afterwards.

But whatever. Ayu was just the empress of the universe and everyone was down at her feet as soon as ASFXX was released apparently and that's all that matters.

Like no other jpop artists can have problems. Why does it have to be a competition. People can't appreciate that a lot of artists have struggles.

These fans. It's always one-sided. And the side they like the most really. Or aren't bitter towards about something.

[Trinu]

I don't consider myself one-sided. I'm a fan of both (I wouldn't be here if I didn't like Ayu), but as a fan of the other side, I can't stand the bashing.

[Andrenekoi]

Professional-wise, none of them had it all that hard, really... They had to endure the same stuff any other artist on the begining of their career usually do...

[November4]

The whole concept of AKB48 is pretty crap to me. It's like the X-Factor -- mass produced and commercial. Ayu is a solo artist, her work is a lot more personal and artistic. Can't compare them.

[rikku1994]

Ummm... Cant' we just say that they "beat" her record? I mean, it was bound to happen based on how much AKB48 sells...

Their music's pretty much shit to me though *listens to AKB48's Begginer*... But seriously though, they haven't snatched Ayu's weave coz Ayu's pretty much considered as a diva or a legend.

[Trinu]

Is that really the nowadays conception of Ayu IN JAPAN?

Cause I in another board something like:

Look at artists like Hamasaki Ayu, BoA, and Amuro Namie. Several years ago, they were gods. Nowadays, they're not huge at all anymore…and if you mention to your Japanese friends that you like them, they look at you like an American would look at you for listening to Fergie or Nickelback.

AKB will go out of fashion, but their sales will stay strong because they can't work otherwise. There will always be fans willing to pay money to see their favourite.