Ayumi's Relationships

[TeamAyu2004]

Originally Posted by Earth_maiden

"Super Manuel"

The book has partial nudity so if that offends please don't click the link (nothing extreme, thankfully).

http://aramatheydidnt.livejournal.co...xpand=1#cutid1

He is just such a gross man. lol

Wasnt there another book with ayumi and her troop? Like Super ayu or something

[koumori]

Originally Posted by voltron

And to anyone who thinks she over-shared, I would really question if you understand the dynamics of a serious relationship.

I'll assume this was in part a reply to me, since you used the same phrase I did: 'oversharing'.
If you read the entire post, my point was that it was oversharing... for Ayu's standards, plus it came at a time where she was suddenly all over social media. It went very fast from private Team Ayu blog posts to being able to talk, meet, and share with fans worldwide directly. That on top of her partners being in music videos, album covers, and her work being very focused on a saturated love theme (LOVE, again, LOVE again, Love Songs) just represents a very messy time in Ayu's life. I think there is an interview where she confessed she had blurred the lines between personal and work life and I would agree to that. It's not about not knowing the gritty details.

I said it all in a neutral way since I don't judge Ayu for what she shared, or how she dealt with anything. At most I think her throwing a ripped picture of herself and Mannie into the music video for Return Road (which was post-divorce) was a bit underhanded... but it's her career, and I know pretty much zero about her as a person and her life. We have little bits from her social media but no real context and I won't pretend to. However, I was trying to give a bit of background as to why you will hear fans saying she 'overshared' or that her relationships dictated her career path too much. For a little while she did let it represent her image, and it's still recent enough for people to talk about it.

To clarify, I don't think her relationship with Tyson contributed to this image. It was a low-key and private affair.

[voltron]

^ I did read your post right before I wrote mine, which is probably why I unintentionally used the same word. And I totally see where you are coming from, and appreciate the thought that went behind your response -- I just don't agree with it all (which is totally fine). And to be clear, I don't think your statements were harsh or judging, unlike some other people (both in the general internet world, as well as even some members here). And I see your distinction of overshare vs. overshare for Ayu, but I just can't look at it that way, because for the most part it is the minimal amount of information.

With Mannie, they met while he was working on her videos and then started dating -- not the other way around. So while that may seem like she was showing him off, once they actually got together there was very little known about them as a couple, and very little of them together was ever shown or seen.

Maro, as I mentioned, was another story altogether and was a hot mess. I remember the fans complained because he was even so prominently featured in HLS tour, so she decreased his role there.

But, by and large, I think she has gotten a bad reputation for her social media actions. She hasn't shown off too much. Yes, she has bit back at some people who attacked her, or wrote cryptic messages when she was having some emotional moments, but I think she still has a very private life outside of her fame. So to make this long post longer, I just think it is unfair of people who do judge her harshly for her actions, and I think much of it comes from people who may not have the personal experience to realize just how much more she could be sharing, but isn't.

Edit: I also just want to add that people who compare the stark contrast between her earlier career and more recent years also need to take the context into account, at least to some extent. The internet was not as pervasive, social media wasn't really a thing, the idea of "celebrity" was different. It was easier to do things in private. Now, everything is accessible online, information flows much more freely, things go viral, and it's nearly impossible to be a celebrity and do something completely anonymously without people finding out.

[koumori]

Thanks for the reply. To be honest, I have the feeling Ayu regrets a lot of how she dealt with Mannie and Maro, which is why we have seen as little Tyson as we have during their marriage. I think it was the first time she could really be independent with talking about her relationships and have the autonomy to involve them in her career the way she did, and wasn't thinking as critically as she would have to if they had been, as an example, a Japanese celebrity like Tomoya. In regards to Mannie being in the music videos before they were a couple - I personally believe they became a couple during the planning and recording of them, as they married very soon after their release. I think she could have edited or rerecorded them if she had wanted to keep him out of her career given their changed relationship, but it was her decision not to.

The reason I'm neutral is because I am aware of how much she could have shared, and that is why I moved the distinction to it's over-sharing for Ayu. She was always very 'private is private' back in the day and so I think it alienated a lot of her older fans about how she changed her stance on that. It's the old adage of not meeting your heroes and some people had an image of her that was different from reality. It's what celebrities build their fandoms off, and although I have enjoyed this new era of Ayu's image in its own ways, it's not like I can't understand where people are coming from either.

I think it's unfair to accuse people of not having personal relationship experience if they disagree with Ayu's career choices in regards to including her partners. It makes the discussion a bit too personal, so I felt encouraged to balance it out a bit with some context - even if I don't agree with this point of view entirely.
As for your last point, I think we underestimate exactly how much Ayu is in control of what goes on her social media. Tyson and her have been very private despite her being as active as ever, and if she hadn't included Maro on album covers or Mannie in music videos (both with himself and with a photo) then I don't think there would have been so much gossip. She made the decision to do that and there's pros and cons to that, like with any decision that changes an artist's image.

As a tl;dr for the long post, I think generally a better phrase to use than over-share would be that people would like more coherence in her meshing of professional and personal life. The fact her two messiest relationships were those that factored in her career at the time has just led some to have a very negative view on Ayu continuing to include her partners. The failed relationships led to a lot of negative media, and due to them being highlighted in her work, the media was all over it. I think a lot of fans secretly (or not so secretly) wish for Ayu to have a more positive image in Japan and are worried this sort of thing works against that. People generally take Ayu a lot less seriously these days and it's mostly due to the LOVE again - Love Songs era and the string of quick marriages.

Ultimately it's none of our damn business lol, but we're a forum so pretty much everything gets discussed to the last detail. Things affecting her popularity in Japan are generally up for a lot of dissecting even if it's about something we don't know much about.

[dreamalley]

If you really think about it, Ayu is a famous "blogger".

Ayu became a huge blogger in a time before blogging could ever be considered a full-time job.

If Ayu didn't update fans through her blog / fanclub / social networks probably her career would never be so big or last so long.

Posting things, personal or not, is a huge part of her brand. Sometimes oversharing or posting shocking news (marriage/divorce) may hurt her public image but it's still building her brand.

[truehappiness]

Originally Posted by voltron

Edit: I also just want to add that people who compare the stark contrast between her earlier career and more recent years also need to take the context into account, at least to some extent. The internet was not as pervasive, social media wasn't really a thing, the idea of "celebrity" was different. It was easier to do things in private. Now, everything is accessible online, information flows much more freely, things go viral, and it's nearly impossible to be a celebrity and do something completely anonymously without people finding out.

For Ayu, she is relatively good at keeping things hush hush so if she desired she could just not tell us things. It's like how she was doing that event in Korea that no one knew about until she actually said anything about it.

[rainbow_smile]

Originally Posted by voltron

With Mannie, they met while he was working on her videos and then started dating -- not the other way around. So while that may seem like she was showing him off, once they actually got together there was very little known about them as a couple, and very little of them together was ever shown or seen.

Well she did post a pic of a shower with a caption that said something like "good memories" while she was on a honeymoon with Mannie iirc, lol

But I personally don't think her "oversharing" was a big deal

[truehappiness]

I think the Twitter back and forth between them was kind of the worst it got to like with the picture of the shower. It was like... oh my god Ayu, really? (I believe it was Mannie who replied to the shower image)

But aside from that it was never really that big of a deal. However, I would say compared to the "Ayu" of before, it was like a complete 180 from her usual "private" life. Just in the span of the early 2010s (2010-2012), she'd had more relationship related 'news' than the first 10 years of her career. I know the Internet/Twitter/etc. had a lot to do with it but to most people who may not really follow Ayu, it would seem like all that she gets into the news for nowadays is her relationships and how they're not very long lasting.

[Earth_maiden]

Originally Posted by TeamAyu2004

He is just such a gross man. lol

Wasnt there another book with ayumi and her troop? Like Super ayu or something

I think for ayu it was, what's the word... "presented" to her as a gift... but it was also put out for general sale (limited to 1000 copies, but still) and Leslie kee made money of of it. I think this was one of the starting points of Ayu and Leslie's first falling out?

If my s/o did something like that, it would NOT be okay.

[pedronekoi]

^ Yeah. The dancers agreed to do a nude photoshoot that would become a book that would be a gift for Ayu but then Leslie put it on sale and Ayu get mad about it (because her dancers didn't agreed on that). But I don't know the name of the book. It wasn't Super Ayu ( I think).

[TeamAyu2004]

I wanna see the book! lol...
That whole time was a mess for her.

[rainbow_smile]

I think it wasn't a book but a video iirc? And he took it down after Ayu complained. I think he also wanted to use the photos for an exhibition or something, but I'm not sure.

[truehappiness]

When they did the shoot, it was supposed to be a book for Ayu but he used it in a photo exhibition.

Also Mannie put some copies of SUPER MANNIE on eBay with his autograph.

[TeamAyu2004]

^He's so gross.

I remember seeing some of the photos of the dancers but I cant remember where.

[YUKARI]

Originally Posted by truehappiness

I'm more inclined to think that she thought he was an odd man at the time and she was never really looking for a relationship but he kept trying to recruit her regardless. The Ayu of the early/mid 90s seemed like a girl who would not want to get involved with some talent scout.

http://ayusstory.blogspot.de/2010/05...log-entry.html

It seemed like she had a bit of a big head at the time, haha. Love reading that blog entry. It's kind of amazing how far she came from a lot of TV producers saying she would never make it.

thank you for sharing!

I'm so grateful that ayu met Max

btw there's a mistake in a translation. Max actually said "selling music is not that easy you know”.

[truehappiness]

Yeah, I think it was later corrected but not in that entry on that site.