Ayu possibly leaving Twitter? (her Twitter is now a staff account)

[Matt_rq]

I guess she still very insecure of herself, because she had a difficult life before becoming famous, I think that make her feel like she isnt enought for the people she love so she tries to call the attention like a young child, I understand her even if is not right and maybe she need to work in this particular part of her personality. Humans being are very complex in the way we act, we are made out of the experiencies in our lifes, we make mistakes and also we have great things to offer the world, I support her for being that, a human and also a singer that gave me so many times in about 5 years since I know her. I really hope she can put some pieces back on the puzzle of her life like everybody out there.

[Chibi-Chan]

Originally Posted by Delirium-Zer0

I understand why Andrenekoi used the phrase "attention whore." I use that term for men & women alike as well, and yes it's a very disparaging term - if a "whore" is someone you look down on because they sell themselves for money and you don't approve of that behavior, then it stands to reason that an "attention whore" is anyone who sells themselves in exchange for attention, and that is likewise behavior you don't approve of. There's not really any other term for it though, even if you don't necessarily see Ayu as an ENTIRELY bad person because she's an attention chaser. (I mean I guess we can use "attention chaser," if you guys wanna take that. lol)

In any case, once a discussion moves to semantics rather than substance it's hard to address the substance of what Andrenekoi was trying to say, so I'm gonna shift to that instead... And I think he's 100% right. I don't think it should be unexpected for Ayu to want & need attention, especially positive attention, given the very nature of her career choice. Even if she's not as insecure as, to me, she appears to be, it's not shocking that she'd share anything that she thinks people might respond to. I don't think she thinks that hard about it is all. I think she just experiences a given moment in her life, and if she doesn't think "nah, that'd be unappealing/boring/uninteresting," and if she's not afraid to share it, then she shares it. For better or worse, I think she just kinda... thinks of her life in those terms.

If something is 50% shareable though, she shares that 50%, leaving us to arrange puzzle pieces that may or may not fit together. They're part of the same puzzle, perhaps, but they go on opposite sizes of the picture. I think she assumes we can fill in the blanks with, if not details, at least vague colors. But we usually can't, cuz we're all gonna have our own experiences & anxieties that fill in the blanks for her (heck, I'll be the first to admit that I assume insecurity because many of her words and actions echo things I would say or do when I'm at my most insecure. Other people could interpret this stuff WILDLY differently because they bring their own experiences & personality into it).

I never said it's wrong to want some attention - everyone does. I never blamed Ayu for wanting attention in general. I made an entirely different point.

To the attention whore thing: first I never said I would look down on prostitutes, I never would. I do not approve of the intitution of prostitution but that's a complete different topic. Second in general people call women whores or bitches or sluts because they do not approve of women who have an active sex life. Attention whore is an insult to women who are too "rude" or "loud" in peoples eyes and who aren't behave people think women should behave. So if you're calling someone (doesn't matter if man or woman) an attention whore you're playing with the stereotype if a woman who doesm't behave well and not "like a woman" to discribe or insult someone. And it doesn't matter if you mean it that way or not. People will get the sub text and you're reproducing stereotypes of how people think women should be: well behaved, without an active sex live and better quite and shy than loud and rude.
If you still want to use that term, well there is nothing I could do against it. But personally I try to not reinforce stereotypes because that way we will never overcome them.

[CatGirl]

I think we should all just be grateful that Ayu's Twitter was relatively tame compared to people like Azealia Banks who REALLY need to have their social media managed for them

[miru2590]

I agree with you chibi chan. I hate when people use words like bit**,who** and so on. I know a lot of people say it doesn't bother me,but after in private some people had said to me."I dont like when people treat me like that". But they pretended in front of other people. I'm sure if we meet ayu one day we won't say hi who**, I love your new song. Is just wrong in my opinion. I know some people will say I don't mean she is a who** you know what I mean. I think is still wrong her name is Ayumi Hamasaki not anything else.

(I'm not saying that I agree or disagree with what ayumi did)

[Delirium-Zer0]

Originally Posted by Andrenekoi

^Yeap, I don't look bad on Ayu for enjoying attention... I would look down on her if she seemed like a bad person or a mediocre artist. But for being an attention whore? Nah.

But I also don't think there's anything wrong with someone becoming a whore, if that's their choice.

I'm with you there! I ain't gonna judge, your choice is your choice. It may not be for me, but I'm not gonna stand in your way if that's what you wanna do.

As for the specific terminology being used for whatever... I think the way you ACTUALLY treat someone matters far more than what word you use to describe them, especially since words change meaning over time. No one says "sinister" to mean left-handed anymore because left-handedness is no longer widely associated with evil or darkness; the use of "lame" to mean "unable to walk" (as opposed to "not interesting") hasn't been common for decades, and while it is still used in that context, it does give your words a very outdated or old-timey tone.

Long story short, the actual word itself matters less and less the more it's used in a different way. The more we use the word "whore" to mean "someone who'll do just about anything for a certain commodity or benefit" the less it'll be associated with objectifying women, or ANYTHING specific to women really.

Chibi-chan, to address your specific concern, there's certainly a difference between a boisterous, talkative, strong-willed woman and an attention whore though... That's why terms like "social butterfly" and "life of the party" exist, after all. An attention whore is an ENTIRELY different concept - it's referring specifically to someone whose entire self-worth is based on how many eyes are on them at any given moment. They will do really out-of-character things if it means they'll get attention.

And.... Ayu has her moments where she qualifies. For the record, if I were a friend of hers I WOULD say it to her face if I were calling her on crappy attention-whore behavior that I felt was detrimental to her. I've called friends on attention-whore behavior in the past, and yes I was still friends with them afterwards (even if we did have that usual, expected post-argument tension at first). But most of the time, when Ayu is doing things for positive, playful attention, the same kind of stuff anyone posts on social media or shares with their friends when they're talking about their day, that's not attention whoring. That's just self-representation, having a one-sided conversation perhaps, but it's nothing crazy.

Would I say "attention whore" in a playful way as hyperbole to describe someone, whether to a friend of mine or to them personally? Yes, absolutely. My social circle still remembers what hyperbole IS (which is something that this generation seems to be losing *eyeroll*) and we use it often with the understanding that hyperbole is exactly what it is. But of course if the person in question asked me to stop saying that about them, I'd stop. If something bothers you personally, I'll be nice about it and stop doing it around you or in regards to you. I'm not gonna be all like "well, freedom of speech, I can say what i want!" about it like an obnoxious d-bag. But you DO have to bring it up, because I'm not (and many others like me aren't) accustomed to the level of eggshell-walking so many people demand nowadays (which, yes, I do find excessive at times).

[Chibi-Chan]

Originally Posted by miru2590

I agree with you chibi chan. I hate when people use words like bit**,who** and so on. I know a lot of people say it doesn't bother me,but after in private some people had said to me."I dont like when people treat me like that". But they pretended in front of other people. I'm sure if we meet ayu one day we won't say to her hi bit** I love your new song. Is just wrong in my opinion. I know some people will say I don't mean she is a who** you know what I mean. I think is still wrong her name is Ayumi Hamasaki not anything else.

(I'm not saying that I agree or disagree with what ayumi did)

Thank you, nice to see that from time to time there are also other people who are bothered by it. And yes, you're right, she has a name.


And Deli, yes, words change from time to time. But saying that attention whore isn't an insult to women in general is a bit naive. I'm aware that you think so because you personally don't think in a way that is degrading to others. But that still doesn't mean that specific terms have an intuitional meaning people attache to them in their minds. Attention whore is a sexist term and you won't change that by saying you don't mean it that way when you use it. If a woman is called a bitch, slut or whore for whatever reason we all should be aware of the origin of those terms and why people call women that. And whatever intention we may have, by using those terms we're reinforcing stereotypes and are insulting women in general.
I'm sure you won't agree with me on that so I guess we have to agree to disagree.

[stickyrice]

Originally Posted by Delirium-Zer0

Would I say "attention whore" in a playful way as hyperbole to describe someone, whether to a friend of mine or to them personally? Yes, absolutely. My social circle still remembers what hyperbole IS (which is something that this generation seems to be losing *eyeroll*) and we use it often with the understanding that hyperbole is exactly what it is. But of course if the person in question asked me to stop saying that about them, I'd stop. If something bothers you personally, I'll be nice about it and stop doing it around you or in regards to you. I'm not gonna be all like "well, freedom of speech, I can say what i want!" about it like an obnoxious d-bag. But you DO have to bring it up, because I'm not (and many others like me aren't) accustomed to the level of eggshell-walking so many people demand nowadays (which, yes, I do find excessive at times).

I've been keeping out of this discussion and I'm not going to chime in regarding Ayu but I just have to agree with this sooo much. People are so easily offended nowadays it's kind of ridiculous :\ This generation is being raised as if they're special little snowflakes. Everyone suddenly wants to play the victim, write up an argument with their keyboard and post it on Tumblr and it's gotten to the point where it's like... chill the fuck out. That's why I'm grateful for my group of people where I know I won't have stones being thrown at me for calling them a whore, slut, bitch, whatever just like how I won't care if they call me that as well. I can tell the difference when someone is making an exaggeration out of it and when someone GENUINELY means it.

Like Chibi-Chan said, we just have to agree to disagree.

[melissalove]

Originally Posted by Delirium-Zer0

Would I say "attention whore" in a playful way as hyperbole to describe someone, whether to a friend of mine or to them personally?

People like what they like cause there's no way in hell my friends/Anyone is ever gonna call me an attention seeking prostitute "playfully" to my face without some consequences.

But im sure that's not the reason why ayu left twitter.

[Andrenekoi]

Originally Posted by Delirium-Zer0

I'm with you there! I ain't gonna judge, your choice is your choice. It may not be for me, but I'm not gonna stand in your way if that's what you wanna do.

As for the specific terminology being used for whatever... I think the way you ACTUALLY treat someone matters far more than what word you use to describe them, especially since words change meaning over time. No one says "sinister" to mean left-handed anymore because left-handedness is no longer widely associated with evil or darkness; the use of "lame" to mean "unable to walk" (as opposed to "not interesting") hasn't been common for decades, and while it is still used in that context, it does give your words a very outdated or old-timey tone.

Long story short, the actual word itself matters less and less the more it's used in a different way. The more we use the word "whore" to mean "someone who'll do just about anything for a certain commodity or benefit" the less it'll be associated with objectifying women, or ANYTHING specific to women really.

Chibi-chan, to address your specific concern, there's certainly a difference between a boisterous, talkative, strong-willed woman and an attention whore though... That's why terms like "social butterfly" and "life of the party" exist, after all. An attention whore is an ENTIRELY different concept - it's referring specifically to someone whose entire self-worth is based on how many eyes are on them at any given moment. They will do really out-of-character things if it means they'll get attention.

And.... Ayu has her moments where she qualifies. For the record, if I were a friend of hers I WOULD say it to her face if I were calling her on crappy attention-whore behavior that I felt was detrimental to her. I've called friends on attention-whore behavior in the past, and yes I was still friends with them afterwards (even if we did have that usual, expected post-argument tension at first). But most of the time, when Ayu is doing things for positive, playful attention, the same kind of stuff anyone posts on social media or shares with their friends when they're talking about their day, that's not attention whoring. That's just self-representation, having a one-sided conversation perhaps, but it's nothing crazy.

Would I say "attention whore" in a playful way as hyperbole to describe someone, whether to a friend of mine or to them personally? Yes, absolutely. My social circle still remembers what hyperbole IS (which is something that this generation seems to be losing *eyeroll*) and we use it often with the understanding that hyperbole is exactly what it is. But of course if the person in question asked me to stop saying that about them, I'd stop. If something bothers you personally, I'll be nice about it and stop doing it around you or in regards to you. I'm not gonna be all like "well, freedom of speech, I can say what i want!" about it like an obnoxious d-bag. But you DO have to bring it up, because I'm not (and many others like me aren't) accustomed to the level of eggshell-walking so many people demand nowadays (which, yes, I do find excessive at times).

Yeap. Depending on the situation I use "attention whore" to describe even myself, why wouldn't I use it to describe Ayu (who proved over and over again to have far more sense of humour than a lot of people around here). Considering some of her choice of words to talk to her friends on social media, I don't think she would give 2 fucks about it.

Also, I'm 100% against banning words, mostly because this always ends up making them stronger... Now, changing their meanings or banalizing them until they become powerless, that's something that in my opinion, as someone who uses words as my primary material of production, can lead to very interesting results.

[Machiko]

I wholeheartedly agree with Chibi-Chan on the matter of whore being degrading to women. It is, and there's no way around it. Whatever is your intention doesn't get a pass on that, much like calling men pussies, little girls, bitches, so on—it's a sexist term used to put down women. People do often use those terms on men too and that's just part of the big problem actually. Why do men get called bitches and pussies and little girls when they show weakness or emotion or aren't good enough at subject x? All those terms have relation to being a woman, being a girl and the intention is to belittle girl/womanhood because being a woman is bad, women are weak and less than men. Same goes to the word whore.

Someone mentioned how "people are just offended easily geez!!!1" but that's just not it. It isn't just us being easily offended, it isn't just us being special snowflakes, but these words actually have negative consequences and a whole history behind them and actual effects on women and how women are generally viewed.

I'm taking an example which are rape jokes. Ironically, I hear the exact same song "geez it's just a word/joke, I don't mean anything with it, you're easily offended you have no sense of humor!" whenever it's pointed out but with a little bit of googling you'll see it's actually studied and proven that rape jokes do decrease people's views on how serious rape is and increase the blame the victims face and so much more. It is how men (and women too of course; many women still live in the idea that they owe sex to their partners and pressured and manipulated into false consent is normal) normalize rape and sexual assault. Now rape jokes are much more serious than the term whore used but it's an extreme example I took to help you understand where we stand.

I think the whole "you're offended too easily" idea is because you've gotten used to all the offensive terms/jokes that when the people who it affects do finally speak up, you get pissed off because to you it's nothing and you can't get in the shoes of those who it actually hurts. It's not too long ago when I didn't think blackface was bad in any way but boy did I change my mind about that!

There's other terms you can use. Attention seeker isn't different from the intention you are using attention whore with, only one letter longer AND isn't degrading to women. How come is it that you are all so keen to grasp on the term 'whore'? I have my guesses honestly and it's got a lot to do with Chibi-Chan's point

The thing is whore, bitch, slut, etc. are STILL very much in use to describe women or prostitutes. It isn't a past thing like left-handed being evil or so. It still exists.

Some words are offensive and strong and they always will be. Changing the meaning doesn't do much. You don't go around yelling the N word and saying let's not ban that word, let's overly use it fuck those who are or have been physically attacked because of racism and the origin of that word!

[miru2590]

Originally Posted by melissalove

People like what they like cause there's no way in hell my friends/Anyone is ever gonna call me an attention seeking prostitute "playfully" to my face without some consequences.

This

[stickyrice]

Originally Posted by Lady Dynamitez

Someone mentioned how "people are just offended easily geez!!!1" but that's just not it. It isn't just us being easily offended, it isn't just us being special snowflakes, but these words actually have negative consequences and a whole history behind them and actual effects on women and how women are generally viewed.

No need to shade, I'm right here =P. Anyways, I understand if people are touchy about it. If it negatively has an impact on you and it disturbs you, I will respect that. I'm speaking for my personal experience, my group, my upbringing where using those words were more or less... the norm. Do I mean it as an insult? Absolutely not but it's just how I was brought up with the words. I mean heck, in elementary school I was acknowledge by close friends as "this is my bitch". If I do something outlandish I was called an "attention whore". Am I offended? No. Should I be offended? Probably. But I'm not. Maybe after all these years I've just become desensitized to those words.

I agree, there is history behind those words, but you can’t hold a word responsible for its etymological history. Words drift in the semantic space. In a real-world conversation, the meaning and the context in which it is used is what matters. I know my audience, I know who I'm addressing. And I know my intentions. It's become a part of my vocabulary as well as many others I know which is why I understand where Delirum and Andrenekoi are coming from.

Phrases like "attention whore" and the likes is just another common euphemism in todays culture. It is an established phrase with a commonly agreed upon meaning (not always as this thread clearly shows). However, I'm also noticing those who ARE offended though tend to be people who are not from the Western hemisphere which is why I feel like it’s (maybe?) just a cultural thing as well because I can confidently say I hear these words/phrases being passed around on the daily from conversations on the train to my own workplace amongst my fellow employees without any repercussions. At the end of the day, I don't get to choose what other people do/do not find offensive. I can only learn how they react and then choose to alter my own speech/behaviour.

[Chibi-Chan]

Originally Posted by Lady Dynamitez

I wholeheartedly agree with Chibi-Chan on the matter of whore being degrading to women. It is, and there's no way around it. Whatever is your intention doesn't get a pass on that, much like calling men pussies, little girls, bitches, so on—it's a sexist term used to put down women. People do often use those terms on men too and that's just part of the big problem actually. Why do men get called bitches and pussies and little girls when they show weakness or emotion or aren't good enough at subject x? All those terms have relation to being a woman, being a girl and the intention is to belittle girl/womanhood because being a woman is bad, women are weak and less than men. Same goes to the word whore.

Someone mentioned how "people are just offended easily geez!!!1" but that's just not it. It isn't just us being easily offended, it isn't just us being special snowflakes, but these words actually have negative consequences and a whole history behind them and actual effects on women and how women are generally viewed.

I'm taking an example which are rape jokes. Ironically, I hear the exact same song "geez it's just a word/joke, I don't mean anything with it, you're easily offended you have no sense of humor!" whenever it's pointed out but with a little bit of googling you'll see it's actually studied and proven that rape jokes do decrease people's views on how serious rape is and increase the blame the victims face and so much more. It is how men (and women too of course; many women still live in the idea that they owe sex to their partners and pressured and manipulated into false consent is normal) normalize rape and sexual assault. Now rape jokes are much more serious than the term whore used but it's an extreme example I took to help you understand where we stand.

I think the whole "you're offended too easily" idea is because you've gotten used to all the offensive terms/jokes that when the people who it affects do finally speak up, you get pissed off because to you it's nothing and you can't get in the shoes of those who it actually hurts. It's not too long ago when I didn't think blackface was bad in any way but boy did I change my mind about that!

There's other terms you can use. Attention seeker isn't different from the intention you are using attention whore with, only one letter longer AND isn't degrading to women. How come is it that you are all so keen to grasp on the term 'whore'? I have my guesses honestly and it's got a lot to do with Chibi-Chan's point

The thing is whore, bitch, slut, etc. are STILL very much in use to describe women or prostitutes. It isn't a past thing like left-handed being evil or so. It still exists.

Some words are offensive and strong and they always will be. Changing the meaning doesn't do much. You don't go around yelling the N word and saying let's not ban that word, let's overly use it fuck those who are or have been physically attacked because of racism and the origin of that word!

Great post!
And I think rape jokes are a great example. It's actually proven that rapists think every man is a rapist and since you can't tell who is one just by looking at their face chances are you're telling a rape joke to a group of people and one out of them is a rapist. So you're basically telling those people "see rape is no big deal and I'm also raping". And of coure the points you already mentioned.
And I also like the N word example.

[Andrenekoi]

Originally Posted by Lady Dynamitez

I'm taking an example which are rape jokes. Ironically, I hear the exact same song "geez it's just a word/joke, I don't mean anything with it, you're easily offended you have no sense of humor!" whenever it's pointed out but with a little bit of googling you'll see it's actually studied and proven that rape jokes do decrease people's views on how serious rape is and increase the blame the victims face and so much more. It is how men (and women too of course; many women still live in the idea that they owe sex to their partners and pressured and manipulated into false consent is normal) normalize rape and sexual assault. Now rape jokes are much more serious than the term whore used but it's an extreme example I took to help you understand where we stand.

That's why you shouldn't use it as an example. You wrote 7 lines equating rape jokes to the word used for pure shock value and 1 to say even you don't believe that. This is very insensitive to rape victims and a very low way of making your point coming accross.

I think the whole "you're offended too easily" idea is because you've gotten used to all the offensive terms/jokes that when the people who it affects do finally speak up, you get pissed off because to you it's nothing and you can't get in the shoes of those who it actually hurts. It's not too long ago when I didn't think blackface was bad in any way but boy did I change my mind about that!

The understanding of a word depends on the context it's being used. I find it rather easy to notice if someone calling me the f word, a "homo" and even the words being discussed here (after Chibi-chan kidnaped the subject in order to discuss semantics... Nothing like a whinning mid-class white girl from a rich country to discuss what opression is) is doing that as a tong in cheek joke or because they want me dead (and oh boy, I bet I know more than you about society wanting me dead because of the minority group I'm a part of)

There's other terms you can use. Attention seeker isn't different from the intention you are using attention whore with, only one letter longer AND isn't degrading to women. How come is it that you are all so keen to grasp on the term 'whore'? I have my guesses honestly and it's got a lot to do with Chibi-Chan's point

The thing is whore, bitch, slut, etc. are STILL very much in use to describe women or prostitutes. It isn't a past thing like left-handed being evil or so. It still exists.

Actually, those words are very used by pretty pony~pretty pony~pretty pony~pretty pony~pretty pony~ people on a very different way it is used when you are beating a woman or shaming her for being sexual. Probably due to the fact that gay men being seen as effeminate, trans women being seemed as "men wearing female outfits" and taking the words for themselves seemed more productive than crying over it being used against them.

Some words are offensive and strong and they always will be. Changing the meaning doesn't do much. You don't go around yelling the N word and saying let's not ban that word, let's overly use it fuck those who are or have been physically attacked because of racism and the origin of that word!

Hmmm... Nope. Some black rappers (I believe Jay Z is among them) already said they use the n word as an way of empty it of its power. Those kind of stuff doesn't happen overnight, but (as someone who doesn't live on a english speaking country, and that must be taken in consideration) it does look like the older generation (who got to know the word through agression) and the younger generation (who got to know the word through pop culture produced by black people) have far different understandings of what it mean. The Slut Walk comes from the same idea.
But that doesn't mean I will use the n word anyway, even because the way it was used as an agression is (as far as I know as a non native) far different from "whore", consindering there are people still alive who had a very real and justified fear of being lynched after just hearing the word shout at them.

I would love to see this same level of commotion every time there's a racist comment around here about japanese/east asian people, or when there are homophobic/transphobic comments about Timmy or Licco.

[lizzylovesongaku]

Originally Posted by Lady Dynamitez

I wholeheartedly agree with Chibi-Chan on the matter of whore being degrading to women. It is, and there's no way around it. Whatever is your intention doesn't get a pass on that, much like calling men pussies, little girls, bitches, so on—it's a sexist term used to put down women. People do often use those terms on men too and that's just part of the big problem actually. Why do men get called bitches and pussies and little girls when they show weakness or emotion or aren't good enough at subject x? All those terms have relation to being a woman, being a girl and the intention is to belittle girl/womanhood because being a woman is bad, women are weak and less than men. Same goes to the word whore.

Someone mentioned how "people are just offended easily geez!!!1" but that's just not it. It isn't just us being easily offended, it isn't just us being special snowflakes, but these words actually have negative consequences and a whole history behind them and actual effects on women and how women are generally viewed.

I'm taking an example which are rape jokes. Ironically, I hear the exact same song "geez it's just a word/joke, I don't mean anything with it, you're easily offended you have no sense of humor!" whenever it's pointed out but with a little bit of googling you'll see it's actually studied and proven that rape jokes do decrease people's views on how serious rape is and increase the blame the victims face and so much more. It is how men (and women too of course; many women still live in the idea that they owe sex to their partners and pressured and manipulated into false consent is normal) normalize rape and sexual assault. Now rape jokes are much more serious than the term whore used but it's an extreme example I took to help you understand where we stand.

I think the whole "you're offended too easily" idea is because you've gotten used to all the offensive terms/jokes that when the people who it affects do finally speak up, you get pissed off because to you it's nothing and you can't get in the shoes of those who it actually hurts. It's not too long ago when I didn't think blackface was bad in any way but boy did I change my mind about that!

There's other terms you can use. Attention seeker isn't different from the intention you are using attention whore with, only one letter longer AND isn't degrading to women. How come is it that you are all so keen to grasp on the term 'whore'? I have my guesses honestly and it's got a lot to do with Chibi-Chan's point

The thing is whore, bitch, slut, etc. are STILL very much in use to describe women or prostitutes. It isn't a past thing like left-handed being evil or so. It still exists.

Some words are offensive and strong and they always will be. Changing the meaning doesn't do much. You don't go around yelling the N word and saying let's not ban that word, let's overly use it fuck those who are or have been physically attacked because of racism and the origin of that word!

Thank you so much! Bless this post! I can't stand those words because they are so demeaning. We use terms like "whore" and "slut" to use for women who are have lots of sexual partners, yet when men have lots of partners, they are oftentimes congratulated and celebrated for it. As "attention whore" goes, I get why it's used, and I understand that most people using it don't see it as very harmful, but it still has that connotation that women shouldn't be putting themselves out there and doing things that could get them noticed. "Attention seeker" (I think Chibi-chan said it) has the exact same meaning without the nasty subtext.

As for how this all applies to Ayu, I guess I'm just generally a very forgiving person. I overlook a lot and I forgive a lot. I feel like I'm one of those few fans who was never really bothered by any the relationship stuff that happened. It's really none of my business and it didn't really effect the way I feel about her or her music. When she tweeted that "bye my love", "hello my love" stuff, she was smiling in the picture. She looked happy with what was pretty obviously her husband. I think the whole situation got blown WAY out of proportion and that I completely understand why she decided to leave her Twitter to her staff. Just because she's a celebrity doesn't mean she HAS to put up with the negativity that is thrown at her. At least she bowed out gracefully instead of going on a Twitter rampage against the "haters" (like I've seen so many celebrities do). She seemingly took the higher road. People are just waiting in the bushes, expecting her to fail, especially with her relationships, so they twist whatever they can and throw it back at her. I wouldn't be able to last a hot minute under that kind of scrutiny, let alone nearly 20 years worth of it.

[Tom Punks]

Mannn, I miss back in the day when the Tumblr generation wasn't trying to police language bc of hurt feelings or whatever it is that's oppressing middle-class white girls these days

[Machiko]

That's why you shouldn't use it as an example. You wrote 7 lines equating rape jokes to the word used for pure shock value and 1 to say even you don't believe that. This is very insensitive to rape victims and a very low way of making your point coming accross.

It's absolutely not for "shock value", what are you even talking about? It was an example, an ANTI-rape-joke to help you understand my point as to why whore and other similar words should be avoided and why they are offensive, to take the background and their effects on women in history and in present into consideration. Somehow I feel like you don't want to even understand my point when your only argument against it is that I'm "insensitive to rape victims" when I'm absolutely the opposite.
Rape jokes are extremely common much like the use of degrading words such as whore, slut and so on. People who point out how disgusting and offensive rape jokes are, are told that it's just a joke, that they're too easily offended, that they lack sense of humor, exactly like here we're told whore is fine and everyday words to use, how they are just words and how we're just easily offended. The pattern is the exact same. Both have a part in sexism and degrading and shaming women and that is the reason I brought up rape jokes. I genuinely do not get your point how I am "insensitive"; isn't it you who insist on using a word that is sexist and offensive after being told so and not me? Isn't it you insensitive to all those women who have had to face the slam the word whore forces them to go through?
Saying that me speaking against rape jokes makes me insensitive to rape victims/survivors is completely beyond me. That's absolutely a horrible accusation to make and I really don't appreciate it. If something, that was low of you. I wonder if your point was to turn it, the blame & the attention around on me rather than trying to understand my point. Because this isn't what I'm saying, this was about what you are saying.

Why does the context matter? You are using a slur word with the only intention is to put down women. That's just it. You are using a sexist slur and what actually is your intention? Was it a joke? Because calling a woman a whore... I just don't get what intention there can be but to insult her? The purpose of those words are to belittle and insult and put down women. You can't just decide what a word already with its own meaning&history means and call it a day. What could possibly be your intention that doesn't make it as bad? Seeing you use that word here and now didn't come across in any other way but negative in my eyes and I fail to see it any other way. My question still stands, why not to use attention seeker instead? Why you feel the need to stick to the whore part that clearly people see a problem with? That if something says insensitive to me.

Black people using the N word is a whole different thing than white people, racist in particular using it with the intention of what it had in the past. They know better how to use it (however I still don't know how that word can be used in a non-offensive way? I don't follow rappers so I wouldn't know). I don't feel like that word's intention or meaning has changed the slightest, and I don't feel like it ever will and will avoid the usage of that as much as I can.
But using this to argue why using whore is fine: it still would very much not be acceptable (nor should it be!!!) for a white person to use the N word for a black person no matter what their intentions were, much like we shouldn't be using whore, slut or bitch with someone who isn't a close friend we know isn't taking it badly. I don't understand your fondness on this term so many people have issues with when there's perfectly fine alternatives.

I would love to see this same level of commotion every time there's a racist comment around here about japanese/east asian people, or when there are homophobic/transphobic comments about Timmy or Licco.

I have not even seen those, excluding the general hate Timmy receives for god knows what reason.
You're bringing this up when people disagree with you on the usage of a sexist, degrading word as if you're upset that you didn't get away with it like they did. You can defend Timmy and Licco too whenever you see those kind of comments and I'm pretty sure many people would jump in to agree, don't blame it on the people who are not there to see it and do something about it just because people disagree with you here right now.

Mannn, I miss back in the day when the Tumblr generation wasn't trying to police language bc of hurt feelings or whatever it is that's oppressing middle-class white girls these days

You mean the glorious days when you would not get into trouble for using offensive language that would cause harm to people that weren't you? I know, that must have been nice, not having to think about anyone else but yourself. We can't make rape jokes and call women whores and sluts and bitches and we can't use the N word or be generally racist, our freedom is in the past!! How will I survive. How dare people think critically and speak out when something is wrong and when I make mistakes I get called out on it... I can't believe I can't even blame domestic abuse against women on women anymore... Social justice never ever existed before tumblr!! Feminism and anti-racism was never a thing before tumblr!! Damn tumblr generation!!


I think the whole argument would have been easily handled by changing one word to another much less offensive, but like I've pointed out, there's a reason you guys are so clung to 'whore'. Anyway, I'll jump out of this situation now as I feel like I'll end up just repeating myself over and over again. Carry on!

I think the whole situation got blown WAY out of proportion and that I completely understand why she decided to leave her Twitter to her staff. Just because she's a celebrity doesn't mean she HAS to put up with the negativity that is thrown at her. At least she bowed out gracefully instead of going on a Twitter rampage against the "haters" (like I've seen so many celebrities do). She seemingly took the higher road. People are just waiting in the bushes, expecting her to fail, especially with her relationships, so they twist whatever they can and throw it back at her. I wouldn't be able to last a hot minute under that kind of scrutiny, let alone nearly 20 years worth of it.

I'm still really confused as to what did she exactly do wrong. She's completely free to leave social media sites whenever she likes and having to put up with gossips and rumors over the silliest of things I really can't blame her! I thought she did it gracefully by leaving instead of making a big deal out of it, but that's just me.

[Andrenekoi]

^Equating rape jokes with the use of the word whore is insensitive to rape victims. You are getting a suffering whole larger than being called a whore (and the most I disagree with comparing suffering, this IS a fact) so you can shock people into agreeing with you. Again, very low.

And I do defend Timmy and Licco every time I see someone bashing them with homophobia and transphobia. The fact that this pretty white mid class girl never saw it only shows how much opression isn't really the issue around here.

much like we shouldn't be using whore, slut or bitch with someone who isn't a close friend we know isn't taking it badly.

Yeah, and I used it to describe a woman I'm a fan of, who I am one of the biggest defenders around here, and who uses those words herself while joking, both on her body of work (Shake it video) and on her social media account (when it existed). I'm not calling you a whore and I'm not calling Chibi-chan a whore, neither as a offense (I prefer gender neutral offenses to people like Chibi-chan) neither as a joke/therm of endearment (considering I wasn't even aware of your existance before this discussion).

Actually, I didn't even call her a "whore", I called her an "attention whore", what doesn't quite mean the same thing. And even if it was "whore", if Ayu decided to sleep around and fuck every thing she felt like, I would aplaud her for doing that if that made her happy, on the same way I have been aplauding every little thing she does for the sake of her own happiness.

Originally Posted by Tom Punks

Mannn, I miss back in the day when the Tumblr generation wasn't trying to police language bc of hurt feelings or whatever it is that's oppressing middle-class white girls these days

Yeap... Funny thing: a good amount of those people only really care about language policing and are pretty oblivious to any kind of opression that isn't making white mid-class girls crying.

[Tom Punks]

Originally Posted by Lady Dynamitez

You mean the glorious days when you would not get into trouble for using offensive language that would cause harm to people that weren't you? I know, that must have been nice, not having to think about anyone else but yourself. We can't make rape jokes and call women whores and sluts and bitches and we can't use the N word or be generally racist, our freedom is in the past!! How will I survive. How dare people think critically and speak out when something is wrong and when I make mistakes I get called out on it... I can't believe I can't even blame domestic abuse against women on women anymore... Social justice never ever existed before tumblr!! Feminism and anti-racism was never a thing before tumblr!! Damn tumblr generation!!

See, the thing here is you're attacking an argument that I never made and implying that I do a lot of things that I don't do. That's not critical thinking; that's you getting offended over something that didn't even happen.

Tumblr social justice is a far cry from real social justice, and life is too short to try and tiptoe around everyone else's feefees. If the worst thing that happened to you as a woman today is someone called a female pop star an attention whore, I'd say you're probably not oppressed...

[Zeke.]

Originally Posted by Tom Punks

See, the thing here is you're attacking an argument that I never made and implying that I do a lot of things that I don't do. That's not critical thinking; that's you getting offended over something that didn't even happen.

Tumblr social justice is a far cry from real social justice, and life is too short to try and tiptoe around everyone else's feefees. If the worst thing that happened to you as a woman today is someone called a female pop star an attention whore, I'd say you're probably not oppressed...

Lmao. Yes!

Also, the "overly aggressive tumblr-mindset" actually pushes me further away from the issues those individuals are trying to draw attention to. It makes me not want to get involved in any way because they make it seem as if they know it all and have everything under control.

In my Media Design class we had to design something that draws attention to a broader issue (using design for more than just trying to sell a product - using design as the voice of a cause or problem). My teacher said that it didn't have to be overly political or part of some really serious dilemma, so you know what I chose? The issue of people, particularly men, getting piss on the toilet seat and not wiping it up.