Ayu's social networks - Discussion #50

[voltron]

The funny thing in all of this to me though is that Diva was ALWAYS part of her imagery. There are plenty of early career photos of her decked head to toe in LV, with all of her LV trunks and bags, etc.

Even now, the Diva image is really primarily in photos and TV performances. She still has her more down-to-earth looks on IG and in more candid pics where she is wearing street clothes, etc.

Maybe it came across as more moderate or tempered in the past since she also wore casual things on TV (sometimes...other times she wore giant freaking dresses and crazy outfits), and she was just generally more visible to the public than she is now. But I just don't think her "style" in this regard has changed a lot other than she has gotten older and has more money.

[mi|kshake]

Originally Posted by Chris85

It's an unwritten law here not to speak badly of her vocals and God forbid if you happen to mention the lip syncing.

Dare I ask haha? I remember there being a big discussion on lip syncing to previous live TV performances years ago. And obviously there was Angel's Song at PCDL, Marionette at AT08 but wasn't sure about recent performances? (Feel free to PM me if this is going to get too controversial)

Two of my absolute favorite Japanese releases in recent years were Seiko Matsuda's single Bara no Youni... and Matsutoya Yumi's Cosmos Library album both released in 2016. Cosmos Library made Yumi the oldest female artist to top Oricon 200 with an original studio album when it debuted at #1 with 60,000 sold. And Bara no Youni became Matsuda's highest charting single in over 20 years and left many people wide-eyed and questioning if she was going to have a huge comeback.

It's great to hear that legends like Seiko and Yuming are doing well. As long as Ayumi can continue to release music for as long as possible I'm happy although I would like a bigger budget for PVs too.

[dreamalley]

There are several good examples out there of artists with long careers and still going strong.

Look at Lee Sun Hee in her 30th anniversary concert:



Her vocals remain the same even after so many years.

[ayuinh.k?]

Originally Posted by Chibi-Chan

Personally I don't think the public needs to "miss" her and I actually think she can release whatever music she wants, it woudn't change how the public feels about her. I just held a presentation about Ayu in my Japanese society class at a uni in Tokyo. What basically every Japanese student there said about her was that they really liked Ayu when she wasn't as diva like and didn't look as fake. I'm hearing this from Japanese people again and again. Their reactions to pics of her A BEST to RAINBOW era where very kind and they were making a lot of positive comments. That drastically changed when I showed pics from MY STORY onwards. They don't like her pink princess like dresses during TV lives, they don't like her overall style and doll like makeup whenever she appears in public, because they think it looks fake. Ayu's style and image from the last 15 years simply isn't what made her famous in the first place and they don't like it. The Ayu from back then with the darker eye makeup but not much else and the more "casual" style is what they liked. Her more casual and therefore mature style and image was working perfectly well with her lyrics. It made the public believe what she sang and they were able to relate.
But they can't relate when Ayu is wearing a princess like dress with a doll like makeup, she simply doesn't appear as sincere as back then anymore, no matter the content of her lyrics.
The best song in the world isn't going to change that. As long as the public don't get the Ayu they fell in love with back image wise, I don't think they will ever like her again. It's not so much a specific sound they want from Ayu, but the feeling they had when hearing someone who kind of looked like the girl next door sings about struggles they were able to relate to.

I agree with what you said. I find that the Japanese public really liked her when she had that girl-next-door, simple looking japanese girl image between 1998-2000 especially when you look at the positive youtube comments and likes from videos of the ASFXX-I am era. I feel that in order for her to become "likable" she has to start dressing more casually on television (no more big dresses and sparkles and glitter), no backup singers in outrageous outfits and get rid of the blonde gyaru princess doll image she still has. The japanese love ayu, but unfortunately the ayu they love is long gone.

[orbitalaspect]

Originally Posted by ayuinh.k?

I feel that in order for her to become "likable" she has to start dressing more casually on television (no more big dresses and sparkles and glitter), no backup singers in outrageous outfits and get rid of the blonde gyaru princess doll image she still has. The japanese love ayu, but unfortunately the ayu they love is long gone.

I don't agree that that ayu is long gone. I think she's still there, it's just that this current ayu has honestly become more about the business of music than about the artistry part. The first thing I thought after reading Chibi-Chan's comment was back when Ayu said in 2000-2001 that she didn't want to be a product, something she panicked over when A BEST was rushed because she knows how disposable people treat things, and she didn't want to be a thing to listeners and fans. I think she has, maybe without realizing it, become a thing?

I think Ayu has done amazing work since MY STORY onward. I think she genuinely created beautiful albums and made gorgeous videos and CMs and had an awesome image. I don't think it's that she needs to go back so far as to be in jeans in every video. I think people need to see her be more herself and less of what seems like a "pin-up" idol? I don't know if that sounds right. My point is that Ayumi today is always portrayed as immaculate, and while I think she should do that sometimes, I think she now comes off as completely disingenuous to what she's doing. She looks like a product, and she kind of acts a lot like a product... maybe she's a product?

I wonder what would happen if someone actually just plainly asked Ayu if she ever looks back at her comments in 2000-2001 and at the image she has now, and how she feels about whether she ultimately became a product anyway?

[Andrenekoi]

"Ayu is too much of a product right now and she should bent herself to the public's will in order to be less of a product and sell more"

???

[Amalgam]

Originally Posted by Andrenekoi

"Ayu is too much of a product right now and she should bent herself to the public's will in order to be less of a product and sell more"

???

They literally wrote a thesis explaining themselves, but do your thing.
Be defensive.

[me0wie]

i think sometimes we are so accustomed to hearing her "perfect" vocals on her releases that we "forget" how she sounds like in real life. hence the criticism. i heard some say her vocals were never perfect, tv broadcast or live. we hear her recorded song a million times on our player, go to her concert to hear her live, and conclude that she sounds bad. I am guilty of that myself sometimes.

I think ayu's songs are more than her voice. her lyrics, the tunes, the feelings she conveys through her voice...

even if she collaborates with the same amazing people she did at her "peak", the results will definitely be different. if ayu changed, then i'm pretty sure they did too.

[Yoake]

Originally Posted by orbitalaspect

I don't agree that that ayu is long gone. I think she's still there, it's just that this current ayu has honestly become more about the business of music than about the artistry part. The first thing I thought after reading Chibi-Chan's comment was back when Ayu said in 2000-2001 that she didn't want to be a product, something she panicked over when A BEST was rushed because she knows how disposable people treat things, and she didn't want to be a thing to listeners and fans. I think she has, maybe without realizing it, become a thing?

I think Ayu has done amazing work since MY STORY onward. I think she genuinely created beautiful albums and made gorgeous videos and CMs and had an awesome image. I don't think it's that she needs to go back so far as to be in jeans in every video. I think people need to see her be more herself and less of what seems like a "pin-up" idol? I don't know if that sounds right. My point is that Ayumi today is always portrayed as immaculate, and while I think she should do that sometimes, I think she now comes off as completely disingenuous to what she's doing. She looks like a product, and she kind of acts a lot like a product... maybe she's a product?

I wonder what would happen if someone actually just plainly asked Ayu if she ever looks back at her comments in 2000-2001 and at the image she has now, and how she feels about whether she ultimately became a product anyway?

Actually it's the opposite. If Ayu was a product today, her career in the last 10 years would have been as Namie’s for example. She would have followed the trends instead of doing what she wants and creates the sounds, the pv and the concerts she wanted and that barely sold. She would have worn what people wanted that she wore and acted as they wanted and so on. Because you know the only fate of a product is to sell.

She is far more an artist now than in the beginning of her career in which Avex didn’t stop to portray her as the little girl trapped by the big music label just to sell cds and when she smiled while she wanted to cry. She is more honest now. But this true Ayu isn’t the image that people had built without knowing her. The biggest proof is what she did with and for the gay community in the last years. She like them since the start of her career but the Ayu of the start of 2000s would have never released something as How beautiful you are pv or have a transexuel dancer as Lico on stage because it would have been against the majority’s taste. Now she is an engaged artist who conveys her true soul thanks to lyrics, her pvs and her concerts while before she could only do it through her vague lyrics that can be understood in different ways.

[melissalove]

Originally Posted by Yoake

Actually it's the opposite. If Ayu was a product today, her career in the last 10 years would have been as Namie’s for example. She would have followed the trends instead of doing what she wants and creates the sounds, the pv and the concerts she wanted and that barely sold. She would have worn what people wanted that she wore and acted as they wanted and so on. Because you know the only fate of a product is to sell.

She is far more an artist now than in the beginning of her career in which Avex didn’t stop to portray her as the little girl trapped by the big music label just to sell cds and when she smiled while she wanted to cry. She is more honest now. But this true Ayu isn’t the image that people had built without knowing her. The biggest proof is what she did with and for the gay community in the last years. She like them since the start of her career but the Ayu of the start of 2000s would have never released something as How beautiful you are pv or have a transexuel dancer as Lico on stage because it would have been against the majority’s taste. Now she is an engaged artist who conveys her true soul thanks to lyrics, her pvs and her concerts while before she could only do it through her vague lyrics that can be understood in different ways.

i dont see how namie is a product, she does what she wants when she wants. She stuck to her style even when it wasnt popular 2003- onwards. She follows no patterns, she participates in nothing involving other artists, doesnt appear on TV, doesnt talk to her fans( no mc, though pressured by avex) and only secludes herself to concerts. I love namie but she is extreamly unpredictable, and independent . I dont think thats a product at all, shes no poppet but i could be totally worng

[CeReSu]

I agree with you melissalove!

First, don't compare Namie and Ayu but to tell what I feel, Namie is the opposite of a "product artist" for me.
She did what she wants, she changed her music style, not because it was popular at this time but because she wanted it and she did it incredibly well.
I think Namie is a model in the industry of music because she did a lot and she always invented herself which each new release.
Which kind of songs will she deliver? That was exciting! Even if in the last few years (since Feel imo), she has adopted a more western style and stuck with it.

For Ayu, is quite the opposite (since Love Song IMO), her recent releases were nothing new (to me, anyway), always the same style, nothing really outstanding or incredible. There were good songs, but that's it, there were just "good" not awesome or different. That's what I miss from Ayu, a song I will listen to crazily like I did with old ones (Think the last time I did that was for Wake Me up!).

For her image, Ayu can't be the Ayu from early 2000's. I can't be the same as when I was 20 (I'm 32 now). We change and that's normal.
I don't like the Ayu "doll" right now (fake long blond hair, princess dresses...) but that's her right now. I think it will change again some times, what we can do is hope for something more natural or intimate (I mean, that we can feel close to her?). Ayu was a model 10 years ago because she inspired me so much, she delivered awesome music and concepts, there was always something to look forward.
Now it is empty, there nothing really exciting for now, even the tours (mainly because there isn't a DVD release anymore and we can't watch it).

So, as I always said with Ayu (because despite all of that I still love her, she's a part of my life !) wait and see and keep hope!

[maxikot]

Originally Posted by Yoake

Actually it's the opposite. If Ayu was a product today, her career in the last 10 years would have been as Namie’s for example. She would have followed the trends instead of doing what she wants and creates the sounds, the pv and the concerts she wanted and that barely sold. She would have worn what people wanted that she wore and acted as they wanted and so on. Because you know the only fate of a product is to sell.

I am totally with you in this opinion. I like when sb says: "Don't compare Namie and Ayu but... (I will do it now)."

Namie in my eyes is 80%+ a product, a business girl whose major point was to sell her music. To do that she followed trends and delivered what people wanted her to deliver. It's not even my assumption but she said such things herself. I really liked her music but after learning how tiring her career was to her it's one big meh right now.

I also see Ayu much more as an artist right now and more independent than she used to be. I seriously am confused about the public that, in theory, wants her to go back to her roots. And if those roots were really caged Ayu? Sorry, I would never wish anybody to go back to such times of their lives. Besides, Ayu said that big, rich shows were sth she wanted to do, so huge dresses and all those things some people complain about are gonna stay so the only option I see is accepting it. Music-wise? We do get some cool tracks and even variety of styles. Party Queen - jazzy stuff, Colours, from A ONE I loved Warning, Out of Control, next Made in Japan had Survivor, Flower, Mad World. Those are just examples. Yep, a lot of stuff feels similar but it's far from the impression one could get after reading some people's complainings (in my opinion)

I really like her recent pictures from the backstage. She goes all the way princess image but that's fine. It's well done. I wouldn't mind sth else but I will embrace what she delivers. Besides, I take into account her condition. Even she is not super pleased with this tour. I simply want her to be herself.

[Andrenekoi]

Originally Posted by Luniverse

They literally wrote a thesis explaining themselves, but do your thing.
Be defensive.

Their thesis is contraditory.

How come she is more a product now that she openly doess whatever she wants compared to when she actually was trying to please the public to remain relevant and interesting?

How come she will be less of a product by putting what the public wants from her above whatever she feels like doing to her career?

Asking her to please their expectations of what she should be doing is the closest thing to being a product they could ask from her. Pressuring her over social media and asking her producer to "do something about her" too are behaviors you have while dealing with a product.

If they are worried about her sales, her chart positions, the japanese public perception of her, her markering strategies, they are worried about her as a product.

Now, there's nothing wrong about that, because Ayu as a popstar IS a product as much as your other next pop star is, but if they want that from her, at least own it.

[Andrenekoi]

Namie from the begining of her career to the end of her collaboration with TK was pretty much the definition of a product manufaturated popstar.

Namie after her scandals until her 20th anniversary was experiementing, going against the trends and trying new stuff and being creative.

Namie from her 20th anniversary onwards was just doing what her team knew would keep her relevant until she could retire from the music industry, in other words, full product.

Is that a problem? Not at all. She started way too young to know what she actually wanted to do and most likely ended up seeing her job as... well, a job.

[voltron]

Some interesting debates going on here, and I think I fall somewhere in the middle.

While I do see Ayu being more of an artist overall now than earlier in her career (choosing the types of songs she wants, releasing at her own pace, not going on TV, etc.), she definitely does have an image of "Ayumi Hamasaki" in her head that is in some ways a product. And everything she does is trying to refine that image further. I feel like that's why some of her tours, music, etc. may feel repetitive to people - because she's not working toward a new goal, just trying to further solidify the image she has for herself. I think as a touring artist, a lot of what she does in the rest of her career is dictated by what will/will not work in a live setting. So maybe I would classify Ayu as a "genuine product" for lack of a better term.

As for Namie, I don't want to go down that rabbit hole too much, and I'll preface it with the fact that I've also loved her for a long time. That said, Namie is more of an actual product - and there's nothing wrong with that. My reasoning for that belief is that she keeps an extremely strong separation of private and professional - we know almost nothing about her as an individual person in the last 5-10 years or more. She is a product for consumption and entertainment. That's not to say she doesn't make choices in what she wants to do, or how she wants to be perceived - but what we're seeing is a conscious choice, not Namie as a person.

[ohsixthirty]

Originally Posted by orbitalaspect

I think Ayu needs to sit down with another team like HAL, Tim, and definitely Kikuchi Kazuhito -- people who truly get or built Ayu's sound with her -- and figure out what an Ayumi Hamasaki song should sound like if they started over today. Ayu has pulled in a lot of people who simply don't know what to or how to produce things that actually add to her canon rather than distract from it. Ayu is diverse artist, but everything has a common thread. Her best work is ethereal and cinematic, melodic, evolving and complexly layered and has unexpected twists. Songs like Free&Easy, OVER, Real me, July 1st, M, are all songs we experience more than we listen to. I think songs like Sweet scar fit that evolution wonderfully, while songs like petals or You&Me are just there. They're not present, they're just "and then i recorded this one too" songs.

Also, Ayu needs to make videos with serious budget again. I've been over these one-dress-one-scene-for-five-minutes-shot-in-a-studio videos. I want the BALLAD PVs and the GREEN PVs and the You were... PVs again. That has always been a huge proportional element of Ayumi, and I think less touring, more serious heads down self-discovery would be right for her right now.

THIS THIS THIS.

I think most of her last few albums are "and then I recorded this one too" songs. I like them still, but something is missing from them. She really needs to reevaluate her sound and come into 2018 with the rest of us.

[Sky High]

Originally Posted by orbitalaspect

I think Ayu needs to sit down with another team like HAL, Tim, and definitely Kikuchi Kazuhito -- people who truly get or built Ayu's sound with her -- and figure out what an Ayumi Hamasaki song should sound like if they started over today. Ayu has pulled in a lot of people who simply don't know what to or how to produce things that actually add to her canon rather than distract from it. Ayu is diverse artist, but everything has a common thread. Her best work is ethereal and cinematic, melodic, evolving and complexly layered and has unexpected twists. Songs like Free&Easy, OVER, Real me, July 1st, M, are all songs we experience more than we listen to. I think songs like Sweet scar fit that evolution wonderfully, while songs like petals or You&Me are just there. They're not present, they're just "and then i recorded this one too" songs.

Also, Ayu needs to make videos with serious budget again. I've been over these one-dress-one-scene-for-five-minutes-shot-in-a-studio videos. I want the BALLAD PVs and the GREEN PVs and the You were... PVs again. That has always been a huge proportional element of Ayumi, and I think less touring, more serious heads down self-discovery would be right for her right now.

I totally agree with you. Less touring and more concetracion on her music, pvs.

[Evan Odinson]

I agree about her recent material not being "outstanding" (I still like them all tho) but I can't understand when people say "all her new material sounds the same". As maxikot pointed out, there are actually pretty different styles in her recent albums, and if we talk about whole albums and not certain tracks, Party Queen is phenomenal to me, it has such an unique sound, it goes from pop to power ballads to jazz and then orquestra, and has imo one of her best lyrics ever. Most negative comments aren't even about the music, I usually read "ugh party queen, worst album, have you seen the covers? trashy" or "she just wanted to show that she's sexy, so superficial", and I'm like did you even pay attention to the whole album? the concept? she took such a creative turn with this one but y'all hated it (I know not eveyone here hates it), same goes with Colours, not as great in lyrics as PQ imo, but such fun sounds, really different from all her previous works, great album overall (PVs are a mess, I can't deny that) and what happened? people hated it lol so I don't expect Ayu to try something really different again anytime soon. She'll probably keep the "safe" sound and style from A One and Made in Japan (probably), not that I would complain about it, I like both albums.

[Andrenekoi]

^About her recent lyrics from Colours and A One being as deep.

Most of the depth from her lyrics came from the fact she was singing mostly about her experiences and feelings. They were deep because she was giving her own personal insight on stuff everyone goes through, and this was where the indentification came from.

She got a lot of shit during Party Queen/Love Again for exposing herself way too much, not being "professional", exploiting her personal life for sales. And this is pretty much what she did since day 1 of her career. From asfxx to Love Again her whole career was constructed around putting her personal conflicts on the spotlight.

Colours was a change in direction, as most of the album is pretty impersonal. A One is filled with generic love songs that don't really talk about her personal life either, and people hated them again

So, people want her to get deep, but don't want her to get personal. Want her to be artistic, but don't want her to be too bold or take creative risks. Want her to take her time to make music, but don't want her to not release something for longer than 1 year. Want her to focus her tours on the music, but want it to be grand and extravagant. Want her to do something fresh, but want her to capture her classic sound from the early 00's. And they want her to be mature, but want her to have teen angst on her lyrics.

[Yoake]

Originally Posted by maxikot

I am totally with you in this opinion. I like when sb says: "Don't compare Namie and Ayu but... (I will do it now)."

Namie in my eyes is 80%+ a product, a business girl whose major point was to sell her music. To do that she followed trends and delivered what people wanted her to deliver. It's not even my assumption but she said such things herself. I really liked her music but after learning how tiring her career was to her it's one big meh right now.

I agree. I think I should have clarified my thought about Namie. Because I wasn't talking about all her career but what happened from her 20th anniversary to today (see Andrenekoi's post). Suddenly her sound changed and followed the music trend and lost her signature at the same time. It's obvious that she just listened to the marketing and producing teams (saying if she was ok or not but they did the bigger part of the job). I also think that this change coincides with her decision to retire and that's why every singers who can't build their own sound could have released her songs. Because she was no longer involved in her own songs.

About "Ayu being no longer an artist because she didn't evolve musically" : I don't think that creating experimental songs or playing with sounds was the main point of Ayu's career. Since the beginning she's a lyricist who chooses the melody that can convey her feelings (her words) as she wants. That's her form of art. That's why she doesn't care to follow the trend or search new composers at any cost to impress. If people think that her sound didn't change, it's because they hear her soul who didn't change in spite of the image they got of her.