[RUMOR] A crazy thing about Ayu and Nagase

[truehappiness]

Originally Posted by ayu_fan929

Well the picture thing is true. Just look at Oricon, normally #1 singles/albums will have pictures besdie the name of the CD, but when a JE single/album gets #1 it says 'Picture Coming Soon'.

I think the only music TV show that does let non-Johnny boybands to appear is 'Music Fighter'. But I think that gets low ratings (or it might be broadcasted at like 12 in the morning) even if big artists like Ayu shows up.

The picture thing is weird.. I never got why sites were never allowed to have their pictures [i.e CDJapan/Neowing, Oricon, composers' sites (http://www.nwp.co.jp/hikari/main.html click discography then music offer.. you see that all the TOKIO covers are not present)]..

And Music Fighter is on close to 1am.. so probably low ratings are due to the lateness.. :]

[immel]

You have indeed given me a much deeper insight, if so only glimpses, in the world of Japanese star agencies which I earlier, out of dis-interest, knew nothing about. I can see the sense in the explanations you have given and I can feel the solid base you ground everything on better now, that only cause one problem, nothing bad, let me speak to the end . My only real interests in Japanese music is Ayu, and partially Gackt, therefore I don't know much about this agencies business. It's quite clear in my posts, I think, that I do not present any facts myself apart from when it comes to Ayu, I'm merely asking questions in order to know more, and be sure of that what I get to know is correct .

The "problem" I mentioned is that when someone as well informed as you post about a rumour like this, without even critisizing it the least, it can mislead people into beliving it is completely true, people often do that all too easily. I'm not saying it might not be true. All I want is that, when news like this is posted, it should also be clear that it might not be true and that it is a rumor based on conclusions, not actual facts. Even if the conclusions is drawn from facts, like in this case, I still think they are far fetched, maybe it's just me, maybe you think this seems likely... I can see how the whole thing might make sense, but to me it sounds really far fetched. I belive this person could fantasize up about any rumour and make it sound more belivable, his way with words is skilled. I want to stress this point again, this is only the opinion of a guy like you and me, he has drawn his conclusions and he knows what he belives, I do not follow his way of drawing conclusions though, I think it is pushing it too far, even if it still MIGHT be true. Well, it might be true that Ayu was abducted by aliens, had her eyes resized, and then put back on earth.

You're very judgemental, really. It was just a joke . But yes, I know you wasn't trying to be mean.

I have to say I'm sorry about that and I was indeed not trying to be mean, I did find the sentence a bit different to the rest of your post but I never figured it was to be seen as a joke, sorry .

I don't get what you're trying to say.

I was only babbling about what I considered as trustable sources, complete gibberish which didn't really make all too much sense in the conversation, sorry yet again.

I mean, what exactly you're having a hard time to believe?

Simply put, this rumour. There's nothing that make me belive that her relationship would be set up, more than beliving it would be real.

I'm not that easily offended

That's good to hear, nor am I.

I will put it to a rest, discussing the topic about the Japanese agencies monopoly, I think I know what I need to know, I've gotten facts and/or rumours enough presented in front of me to make me able to judge how I want to look at this issue/rumour/way of drawing a conclusion.

Originally Posted by truehappiness

It's not like Ayu's just some actress/singer that can just easily be manipulated. If something like this was going on for real, she'd have something to say about it. I mean, it's AYU for crying out loud! She wouldn't just let something like this spread about her 'relationships' would she?

It's sort of what I want to belive aswell. While Ayu possibly could be able to agree on spreading a rumor like this in order to enchance her sales I do think we would have seen less of them together. The thing that makes this a problem, and also what make all those rumours appear is that we lack information on the fact if they are still together or not. That has suddenly made the question here arise, were they ever together for real? While that might be the case I don't think what this person put forth in his blog in any way enchance the odds that this would be the case, I still see it as more likely they actally are/were together.

edit~
@ayu_fan929 I appreciate the comments you present me very much, they help me a lot in thinking and drawing my own conclusions out of this, I'm sorry I do not comment better on your posts :/.

[andre2907]

Originally Posted by ayu_fan929

Well the picture thing is true. Just look at Oricon, normally #1 singles/albums will have pictures besdie the name of the CD, but when a JE single/album gets #1 it says 'Picture Coming Soon'.

Exactly. Also, go to the drama sites. Even if the Johnny is the lead, there won't be ANY picture of him and in the character chart, instead of a picture there's a cartoon or a shilouete. If there's a press conference with the Johnny's, you won't see pictures in news sites.

Originally Posted by ayu_fan929

We have to remember that Johnny's control a lot of high rated shows. SMAP X SMAP; Utaban; Domoto Kyodai are just the variety shows with high ratings.

This are jut some of the powerful variety shows they present. They also do G no Arashi, Shonen Club, Utawara, Warate Iitomo!, Kin-sma, Yah Yah Yah and many more. Every season, at least three dramas have Johnny's in starring roles (sometimes even more than one).

[micster]

So this johnny's label is overprotective not allowing pictures of them to be avalible freely?

No pictures on official websites etc ... thats just ... freaky. Especially when thinking of MGS2. The last things in the game say that we need to keep Free Speech and have our opinions uncensorned

[immel]

Originally Posted by micster

No pictures on official websites etc ... thats just ... freaky. Especially when thinking of MGS2. The last things in the game say that we need to keep Free Speech and have our opinions uncensorned

Funny how Johnnys seem to make the exact opposite compared to avex. While avex take inspiration from the MGS games, Johnnys make the opposite .

Oh, right, it was MGS that took inspiration from avex... sorry!

But yeah, I also found some issues with the Freedom of Speech which there's (international?) laws for, it's one of the things that make me think this 'monopoly' by the recording companies is weird, even if I understand that it exists.

[micster]

Acually the johnny's are like Arsenal Gear, the artificial intelligance that removes certain things from the internet.


Does no one else think its wierd that a japanese company created MGS2 and a japanese creater created the story while this scandle was going on?

Almost like its Johnny's inspired most of the story

[immel]

Almost, but it was probaby more inspired by the general issue of Freedom of Speech that is missing/abused/ignored in many parts of the world - not only a Japanese talent agency.

[micster]

Originally Posted by immel

Almost, but it was probaby more inspired by the general issue of Freedom of Speech that is missing/abused/ignored in many parts of the world - not only a Japanese talent agency.

Maybe it also involved a bt of the cover up story about Ai Takahashi having aids that Hello! Project tried to cover up.

But i found out, cos I R MICSTAR



Im just jokin i love aichan, just look in my folder named Ai Takahashi =D

[immel]

@Johnny's in general - However they do it and whatever they do they sure are successful.

[truehappiness]

Yeah, they are. KAT-TUN got 415k first week for their single.. D:

POWERHOUSE, ANYONE?! XD

[immel]

What's powerhouse?

And, holy freaking mother earth @ KAT-TUNs first week sales.

[*Petit*]

Actually there are articles on this written by researchers. I was looking for articles on street fashion a while back and also came over some articles on the "two faces of enka singers" which dealt with the image of japanese artists, mainly enka singers though. But many of the points made seemed valid for jpop too. Unfortunetly these articles were only avaliable to me through the computers at the university, and I can't really recall the url either.

THe power of the companies and how the artists are being treated/hired is very diffrent from the west. THe whole japanese business culture is different and in order to understand how the companies work you'll have to take a looka t how the japanese economy has worked in the past and works now. There have been a lot of corruption scandals in the past. Most of the most powerful figures have gone to the same university and somehow share a common bond .

The most important human factor in the policy-making process is the homogeneity of the political and business elites. They tend to be graduates of a relatively small number of top-ranked universities, such as the University of Tokyo and Keio University. Regardless of these individuals' regional or class origins, their similar educational backgrounds encourage their feeling of community, as is reflected in the finely meshed network of marriage alliances between top official and financial circle (zaikai) families

off wikipedia, but I originally read it in a book I have at home. I's too lazy to look up it's name now. It's late. =PTHis also extends to the music business as it is a business like any other. Also, treatment the idols get has much to do with culture. Seiko matsuda might not sell that many records anymore, but her tickets for christmasshow is still the most expensive and always sold out. My guess is that if she worked for the same agency as f.ex koda (I'm using her because she has relatively newly aquired high sales) right now her base salary would be lot higher then koda's. The same is true for Hello project idols, the graduated girls get a higher wage because they have done a good job and have been working for the company a while. That's how it works in the regular business world of Japan. You work your way up by proving your a useful and faithful employee. (allthough the shiftings in the music industry surely are a lot more shifty... )

I hope some of this makes sense, it's too late and I'm very sleepy..

This is not fresh knowladge to me anymore, so there may be some errors.

[andre2907]

Originally Posted by immel

The "problem" I mentioned is that when someone as well informed as you post about a rumour like this, without even critisizing it the least, it can mislead people into beliving it is completely true, people often do that all too easily. I'm not saying it might not be true. All I want is that, when news like this is posted, it should also be clear that it might not be true and that it is a rumor based on conclusions, not actual facts. Even if the conclusions is drawn from facts, like in this case, I still think they are far fetched, maybe it's just me, maybe you think this seems likely... I can see how the whole thing might make sense, but to me it sounds really far fetched. I belive this person could fantasize up about any rumour and make it sound more belivable, his way with words is skilled. I want to stress this point again, this is only the opinion of a guy like you and me, he has drawn his conclusions and he knows what he belives, I do not follow his way of drawing conclusions though, I think it is pushing it too far, even if it still MIGHT be true. Well, it might be true that Ayu was abducted by aliens, had her eyes resized, and then put back on earth.

I see. Anyway, I said it wasn't an official source, just a guy's blog but I read his post and I tought he was well-informed and wrote intelligent stuff. It may be true, but there's also lots of chance it isn't, so I tought people could judge themselves by reading the guy's blog, like I did

Originally Posted by Immel

I have to say I'm sorry about that and I was indeed not trying to be mean, I did find the sentence a bit different to the rest of your post but I never figured it was to be seen as a joke, sorry .

I was only babbling about what I considered as trustable sources, complete gibberish which didn't really make all too much sense in the conversation, sorry yet again.

No problem

Originally Posted by Immel

Simply put, this rumour. There's nothing that make me belive that her relationship would be set up, more than beliving it would be real.

Yes, I agree. I didn't want to interfere in people conclusion, so I just tought it would be interesting to post that. The guy had interesting things to say... but from the beginning, I tought people could come to their own conclusion, so that's why I didn't criticize it...

We also need to look at how Japan. I really don't want to offend anyone but it a coward country (really sorry for saying that, but I don't have another wor). The way they handle bullying, teenage prostitution and other big problems in Japan: they ignore it. Adults, government, students... I recommed you to read articles about "ijime", bullying in Japan... it's kind of weird the way they handle the situation.

Back on topic, please.

re: Tim. There was a lot of gossip about Ayumi/Tim around the time (miss) understood was being promoted, leading me to believe that it seemed to be a publicity thing to draw interest. Despite all that was written (some which seems to be contradictory), there wasn't a photo. As others have said, it's a conspiracy theory that someone has thought an awful lot about. I'll just wait for the tabloid photo, then I'll take this rumor a bit more seriously.

[truehappiness]

I thought it was closer to B&D.. :O

I hope avex didn't make it up or anything.. D: XD

[ayu_fan929]

^Yep. During her time in NYC for the making of (m)u related material.

[marca]

omg crap, looks like i miss the most interesting part of this dicussion thread... damn, i came too late... but andre2907 had said whatever that i plan to with regard to information manipulation, and maybe even more... your insight and knowledge into the matter impressed me and puts mine to shame...

btw i dont think we are going off topic since in my opinion, information manipulation should be considered part of the topic... one thing i wish to add though is that this is japan we are talking about... many have cited comparisons with the american or the western music industry, but these are totally off... there is such a thing called cultural differences and this greatly influence the bahavioural patterns of the society... japan's society is very unique, which is why it interests me so much... therefore people shouldnt judge japan based on how they judge america or other european countries for that matter, they are just different...

and in japan, the agencies are always bigger than the artists... so eventhough she is ayumi hamasaki, the queen of jpop, and our favourite singer, she is also at the end of the day nothing more than a puppet... a puppet that is controlled by the hands of avex... i believed she showed a bit of this in her alterna pv...

to sum up my thoughts, i believe that the nagase/ayu relationship could be real, could be fake... we wont know until maybe one day they get married, either to each other or to a 3rd party that just came out of nowhere (aka tim)... but what is real is this information manipulation, a dark side of the japanese society, and an issue that fascinates me...

[immel]

Haha, poor you marca .

I never doubted the manipulation, only this very rumour, which led the discussion in onto the manipulativeness of Japanese agencies.

one thing i wish to add though is that this is japan we are talking about... many have cited comparisons with the american or the western music industry, but these are totally off...

While I know the difference between the two industries is major I don't think comparing has to be completely off, after all it's all that we have to compare to in case we choose to do and we need to compare in order to see the differences. What you say is true, we shouldn't judge Japan based on other countries music industry, but we can still compare.

and in japan, the agencies are always bigger than the artists... so eventhough she is ayumi hamasaki, the queen of jpop, and our favourite singer, she is also at the end of the day nothing more than a puppet... a puppet that is controlled by the hands of avex...

I think this is completely true for every artist in the world, apart from those who broke their contract and started a recording label on their own or those who started off without any connection to an agency.

Hehe, I might be insistent, but I will say again, there's nothing that make me belive this rumour is true, more than beliving it is false. What the blog says about manipulativeness makes sense, but the connection he makes of it with Ayus relation as we know it does not - not to me and therefore I lean more towards that this rumour is false, while the fact that agencies of Japan is manipulative is true.

I think the Back on topic, please. was more directed at the short posts by me, th and micster.

Originally Posted by andre2907

I see. Anyway, I said it wasn't an official source, just a guy's blog but I read his post and I tought he was well-informed and wrote intelligent stuff.

Yes, he very obviously is well informed which I can see better now thanks to your thorough explanations, but I don't think that when it's him making up a rumour like this it strengthens the rumour, because he only picks up the points that make it seem like this relation is set up, he mentions nothing about what talks for that it might not be set up - also a skilled way of, in lack of a better word, misleading people. This is only the thoughts of a single person, if there were more widely spread suspicions that Ayus relationship might really be set up, it will be in the news, no?

[marca]

Originally Posted by emaNresU

lol one and a half hours just to figure out an translation for 情報操作...

wow if that's true... does it mean that celebrity marraiges are arranged? that's sad right?

haha, sorry, please forgive me... i was bored...

Originally Posted by immel

Hehe, I might be insistent, but I will say again, there's nothing that make me belive this rumour is true, more than beliving it is false. What the blog says about manipulativeness makes sense, but the connection he makes of it with Ayus relation as we know it does not - not to me and therefore I lean more towards that this rumour is false, while the fact that agencies of Japan is manipulative is true.

i understand... seriously, every1 is entitled to think that ayu and nagase are indeed together for real... i'm sure no one would try to force others to change their views, so dont worry immel...

i read some of your earlier posts and they do make sense, but sometimes when there are things like information manipulation, the "official news" could be distorted, so we might have to go underground in a bid to discover the truth, thus a lack of official confirmation...

[immel]

Originally Posted by marca

i understand... seriously, every1 is entitled to think that ayu and nagase are indeed together for real... i'm sure no one would try to force others to change their views, so dont worry immel...

LOL, you're evil .

This 情報操作 that you talked about made me curious, I know a lot more about it now thanks to all of you.