I really dislike ayus recent music style...

[ImpactBreaker]

Originally Posted by hsienko

A couple things:

Fool, you don't need voices or instruments to make music. Crickets make music by rubbing their wings together, they use neither instruments or voices but wings.

Funny how you nitpick on small details that don't really mean the point where I was trying to get. Clapping can be used to make an arrangement, and that isn't an instrument, but I was not restricting my point to saying musical instruments as in piano, guitar, etc but any resource you use to producing a sound, be it a piano or a cricket orchestra, since you're into animal music. Also, chill out a little, I mean, no need to losing the temper over the internet

Originally Posted by hsienko

1. We were talking about the making of actual music not producing tracks because anyone can get a producer credit on an album it doesn't mean anything like how Max Matsuura is credited on every album.

huh? Producing in the way I'm mentioning is the process of making music. Maybe I used the wrong terms, but hey, I'm not writing a formal letter to a big authority here. I was obviously not referring to the other rest of production, like organizing release dates, CD manufacturing, planning on covers and video clips and advertisement and everything else. I was talking about the basic production of making a song as a whole, so let's not be taking this conversation another whole level.

Originally Posted by hsienko

2. You're over complicating what I said which was anyone can write lyrics to pre-recorded music whether I do it or Ayu does it doesn't change the fact that the backing music track was given to her and she didn't create it herself just like what I said before because you obviously didn't get it the first 3 times.

Again, you're repeating yourself over to which I already told that I know she doesn't arrange or compose most of her songs. But for the lyrics to fit, some alterations to the original backing track might be needed as well as she need to work closely with the composition in order for her lyrics to fit, meaning she's amking the song as well. And, yes, anyone can write lyrics, anyone can play a piano arrangement and anyone can make a composition - however whether those will have quality is what I'm trying to imply, and that demands work, inspiration, creativity and time wasted. So if you're working to make things flow well together, be it lyrics, composition or arrangement, you are in the process of making/ producing a song.

Originally Posted by hsienko

3. Dictionary definition: Musician - a person who plays or composes music, esp as a profession. Key words being composes and/or plays. Ayu is a lyricists: she writes lyrics. She neither plays an instrument or composes music so she's not a musician. She's a singer, a pop idol, but not a musician.

She has composed a few songs, anyway. I won't be wasting time to repeat the rest though.

Originally Posted by hsienko

Pffft.......like I'm really gonna waste my time on that pointless ******** since Ayu already did it when she took Tomoya Kinoshita's track and wrote lyrics for it and then recorded her self singing said lyrics over the music.

Funny, how you were saying that ANYONE can do that, and your example of anyone making lyrics to put into a song is actually...ayu, which was actually the opposite point you were trying to justify. ayu can connect her lyrics with songs, even to pre-existing ones, but she needs to closely work what she'll be writing along with the composition, so she does play an important part on how the arrangements, compositions and lyrics will build together to become a song, which has been my point all over. It's pretty easy to say: "anyone can do that!". That way I can go to youtube and look for "brain tumor excision", see the neurosurgeon cutting here and there and say: oh anyone can operate a brian tumor, just cut here and there. It's pretty simple to say you can do something. The process of doing it is another story.

I just won't be wasting my time on discussing this anymore, though.

[emi♡]

Originally Posted by jbrat2219

I knew she wrote most, but all? Really? That's cool, I didn't know that.

oh wait...idk I could be wrong lol I think there are a few exceptions...

[love in music]

Originally Posted by jbrat2219

I knew she wrote most, but all? Really? That's cool, I didn't know that.

On-topic:

AYU HAS COMPOSED MUSIC! She just doesn't do it all the time. So is she only half a musician or not at all? The definition isn't so black and white. Plus, if Ayu were in a band, and someone in the band writes the music and Ayu writes the lyrics is she any LESS apart of the production just because another member is responsible for the composition or arrangement or whatever? All of the parts make a whole, you can have music without certain parts but for the kind of music Ayu makes, she's very much apart of it. Her lyrics were how she became famous, so obviously what she does takes some talent.

Spoiler:

no, kumi doesn't write all of them lol, just most. most of her trashy songs weren't written by her. I believe "Physical thing" was probably the first sexy one she wrote, but I believe she still just co-wrote that.

and to be on topic too i'm just going to say my god I am agreeing with all of your posts here in this thread. I'm also agreeing with what Impactbreaker is saying.

[ayane4ever]

I like her recent Ballads, I'm hoping she will release a up-beat song soon but I'm happy with the recent stuff

[jbrat2219]

Originally Posted by identity

and to be on topic too i'm just going to say my god I am agreeing with all of your posts here in this thread. I'm also agreeing with what Impactbreaker is saying.

Glad we agree, baby! ;D

[ストロボ・EdGE]

I think you're forgetting all of the composing she did for her earlier albums. :/ She is a pop idol, but that's not all she is. She is not lazy or nonchalant with her music, and she is a big part of her sound- accept it and move on because no one is reading your repetitive 5,000 word posts anymore.

Originally Posted by jbrat2219

I knew she wrote most, but all? Really? That's cool, I didn't know that.

No, from the top of my head, I know she didn't write the lyrics for ECSTASY and JUICY, but she does write or co-write a lot.

[emi♡]

lol guys, I don't agree with hseinko...but I think you put a little too much stock into her "composing".

But that's all I'm going to say about it lol


and ah I knew there were some she didn't write lyrics too. I dont think she did cherry girl either...but I could be wrong about that too lol

[tourniquet]

she was humming a tune to a casette recorder. she has no formal training in music at all. can she even read notes?

[Kingdom]

I'm sorry you're not into Ayu's "new" sound OP but a break is always good, even I need them from my favorite artists.

and ah I knew there were some she didn't write lyrics too. I dont think she did cherry girl either...but I could be wrong about that too lol

Kuu wrote the lyrics for Cherry Girl actually...

Spoiler:

not that it matters here, but Kumi writes about 95% of her lyrics nowadays. the only exceptions are when she uses someone else's lyrics (like HIRO whose lyrics she used to express a song from a man's point of view) and some of the nastier songs like JUICY.

http://www.uta-net.com/user/ichiran....6%A2&Bselect=3

[jbrat2219]

^^ She learned to play Piano, no? She'd have to learn how to read music for that I'm sure. Even if she has no formal training, she does have musical experience. She'd be pretty dense if she learned nothing all these years.

[Shirlaay]

I accept the fact that her music styles do change, but there's always space to improve. There's always some who really like her music style atm, but some who don't (and some who are in the middle).

And to be fair, Ayu is really working her socks off lately and trying to do her best. It's just a matter of taste really.

[Ranma Matsuri]

LOL @ what this thread became in less than twelve hours.

Originally Posted by Love Shine

I think perhaps to be able to really determine the best answer is to perhaps ask someone who has just started considering themselves her fan. When they are in that stage of just picking out random songs to listen to, not knowing the chronological order in which the songs came out perfectly and the styles seem mixed. When perhaps they aren't informed as to when her peaks have been. What songs would they choose as her best? And why?

Well for me, some of the earliest stuff I listened to was the entire Memorial Address album, kiss o kill, vogue, Fly high, M, Pride, Mirrorcle World, INSPIRE, and GAME. So it was mix of things from different eras and for the most part, I still love these songs, a few I wouldn't rank among her absolute best but they're great songs nonetheless. Listening to her albums were done in a similar random method, Memorial Address was the first, MY STORY second then NL, GUILTY, RAINBOW, Secret, (m)u, I am..., Duty, LA with ASFXX being the last one after RnRC. MA was a favorite right off the bat though were were a few songs I didn't much care for but now I pretty much love everything about the album, lol. I loved NL too, and it's still a favorite. m(u) was another instant favorite though the randomness of the genres confused the hell out of me. I thought RAINBOW was an absolute bore at first listen but I decided to give it a another chance and fell in love with it. From reading reviews online, MS, Duty, and I am... were often praised so I went in listening to those albums with high expectations and was pretty let down. The awesomeness of Duty came through after a few more listens and MY STORY eventually won me over but I still can only listen to first half of I am... minus evolution + M. GUILTY and RnRC are pretty much at the bottom of Ayu albums chart while NEXT LEVEL is close to the top. But if I were to compile of list of what I felt were her best songs, most of them would probably be from post-MY STORY and only two of them post-Secret.

I wouldn't can't say there was a "blue" period for me because well... I've only been on the Ayu bandwagon for two years. That would be really silly. But as I said before, I just find I prefer some of the older stuff in her discography more. Putting it in chronological order, for me, it was easy to hear and see the changes in her style and music so it's kinda interesting when people who've been around longer than I have and experienced the changes as they were happening in real time feel like nothing's changed at all.

And all this is exactly why I find the "nostalgia" arguments to be absolute bull****.

[channy]

Originally Posted by hsienko

Actually I'm right. Her 'team' isn't really her team, they're producers who's job it is to make music. It is as simple as 'she is presented a track,' because that's how things work, The music label will commission tracks for singers from these producers or the producers will make a song and then shop it around from label to label or singer to singer. To say otherwise is stupid because even Ayu has mentioned this system of 'being given several tracks and picking the one(s) she likes' in many interviews. And unless CREA appears in the album credits Ayu didn't have anything to do with the arranging or composition of the song. Writing lyrics and composing a song are two totally different things. Michael Jackson was actually involved with the composing, arranging, and overall production of a song unlike Ayu. And ayu isn't "irrelevant" because she didn't compose every one of her herself, not every singer is born with a niche for making music or been trained and schooled for years in music composition or can even play an instrument for that matter! Ayu sings, she is a pop idol, just like Britney Spears. They're both Idols. They're not musicians, they're not composers, they're Pop Idols.

Originally Posted by hsienko

1. We were talking about the making of actual music not producing tracks because anyone can get a producer credit on an album it doesn't mean anything like how Max Matsuura is credited on every album.

2. You're over complicating what I said which was anyone can write lyrics to pre-recorded music whether I do it or Ayu does it doesn't change the fact that the backing music track was given to her and she didn't create it herself just like what I said before because you obviously didn't get it the first 3 times.

3. Dictionary definition: Musician - a person who plays or composes music, esp as a profession. Key words being composes and/or plays. Ayu is a lyricists: she writes lyrics. She neither plays an instrument or composes music so she's not a musician. She's a singer, a pop idol, but not a musician.



Pffft.......like I'm really gonna waste my time on that pointless ******** since Ayu already did it when she took Tomoya Kinoshita's track and wrote lyrics for it and then recorded her self singing said lyrics over the music.

WOW! hsienko is the very first person on AHS that wrote exactly what I've been trying to explain back then.

I have been always wondering why everyone says, Ayu writes her own lyrics and stuff. She doesn't even plays an instrument nor does she writes lyrics by her own except of the few CREA songs. She basically has to give Avex's music a face / an image. I am OK with that!

Thanks for that great post, hsienko!

[Bad Wolf]

Uh... she writes the lyrics for all of her songs, ever since ASFXX.

And hey.. Kyo from Dir en grey has no musical knowledge or training and he's composed songs for the band, and for his own "solo" works for his poem book releases. Huh. Is he not a musician?

My god, some of you are just sad.

[Coelacanth]

Originally Posted by tourniquet

she was humming a tune to a casette recorder. she has no formal training in music at all. can she even read notes?

Nor does Michael Jackson or John Lennon/Paul McCartney. They can play instruments, but they never learned how to read sheet music. It's not necessary.

[Andrenekoi]

Originally Posted by ShiSeido

WOW! hsienko is the very first person on AHS that wrote exactly what I've been trying to explain back then.

I have been always wondering why everyone says, Ayu writes her own lyrics and stuff. She doesn't even plays an instrument nor does she writes lyrics by her own except of the few CREA songs. She basically has to give Avex's music a face / an image. I am OK with that!

Thanks for that great post, hsienko!

CREA songs: Ayu wrote both lyrics and melody
all of her other songs but Love: Since 1999: Ayu wrote the lyrics

Ayu is credited as the writter of all of her lyrics but the one written by Tsunku... Maybe u are just misstaking her role as CREA, where she composed the melody too...

[freedreamer]

Ok took a me a while before i realized the existence of this thread and Page 5 & 6 was when things started getting a little off..but regardless, lemme quote a few members stuff and also add on to them.

But one thing I have to say, EVERY FAN will come to a point when YOUR music style subtly changes with the influence around you (because there are just TONS of catch-ier tracks out there released on the market..like do you see MANY western artistes using BALLADS as promotional tracks? no. Hence, fans are spoilt these days). And besides your style changing, Ayu will NEVER be the same. For the better or for the worst (to each his own). With new producers and arrangers, you just can't expect the same thing.
And see how Utada, Kuu, Namie, Mika have all changed after 2-3 albums carrying the same style and compared to them, Ayu has been more consistent with her own style of rock/pop. AND of course, there are special occasions where she creatse a different sound like Sparkle. Yet isnt Sparkle something so common in today's music? Its just because Ayu released it and that is something new for her AND it FITS IN with today's audience.

Originally Posted by jbrat2219

Gosh, I feel like I'm in a club all by myself in which I love almost every song the woman puts out. Not just because it's Ayu, but because I genuinely think it's excellent music. Music that only she could portray with such intensity in her voice, her lyrics and her performances.

+1 to the club. I'm a post-MY STORY fan. So for me, I dun really that big a change in style except that, nowadays, she hardly makes 2-3 rock songs together. I mean back then, opening the album with About You & GAME, I was WOW-ed. Of course, Microphone is her most recent epic. Definitely looking forward to her new album.

Originally Posted by ImpactBreaker

I think most people just forget that aafter years listening to the same singer/artist you might eventually wear off of them, without it necessarily being their fault. You'll get to used to everything that it gets harder to get impressed by the same vocals and band, since ayu is quite loyal to her team of professionals: band, arrangers, composers, etc. And then, if you keep on forcing to compare and like the songs, you'll definitely just get unimpressed.

Yup, i agree. i mentioned above, compared to other singers, Ayu has been more consistent in keeping that similar genres but now it sort of becomes either a hit or miss. Ayu doesn't make music that follows the trend, among POP singers..and esp Jpop singers.

Originally Posted by Love Shine

Oh, I didn't mean that any song sounded alike, I'm just saying it's timing. Like, because a song was released in what someone considered her "prime" they would like it. For example, I love Hanabi. Its a song that I personally would consider a classic, a unique song and I really love Rainbow. But, if she had released it as a song on L I can't see myself as loving the song the way I do now. The nostalgia adds something to the song, I guess?

Well. then we should all give her songs time. Being a more recent fan, i would say, when I heard her older songs (which were all new to me in 2004 lol), they were as magical as her MY STORY album, cept that I think for MY STORY, she had this stronger sound for me. There was a slew of ballads in MY STORY and it WORKED.

Originally Posted by waterballoon

IT'S THE ONLY WAY TO ASSURE HER #1 WEEKLY FOR THESE 3 SINGLES FOR THAT DAMN STREAK

Ayu keeps moving forward, and so her music keeps changing with each step she takes... granted I gotta say, A Song For xx, appears, Duty, I am..., RAINBOW, Memorial address, Moments, HEAVEN/STEP you, JEWEL/BLUE BIRD, Together When..., Days, Microphone/Sexy little things... distinct songs off her albums I guess, but all have the "Ayu" sound, as different as they may be....

yes those three are MEANT to secure the streak. And yes, somehow, no matter how strange the song, there's always something special that makes us know that it belongs in Ayu's discography. For me, I have a BESTOFAYU tracklist in my iPod and songs like Sparkle and SLT, which sounds nothing like songs released before them, are also in there. Not just because it's good but somehow, with the addition of these songs, if you look at her discography AS A WHOLE, it feels all-rounded. If it was back in 2002, an Ayu playlist, for me, would not feel as complete.


With all that, Let me end off by saying, i too, have been guilty of paying less attention to Ayu's songs as the months go by, unless she releases new material, then I would have an Ayu-craze period (As with all other artistes actually). Ayu now, serves as an artiste that reminds me how trends are not followed admist all the digital sound. She doesnt give me dance tracks after dance tracks but instead, a more raw and down-to-earth sound.

[NintendoHTF1242]

Originally Posted by identity

Spoiler:

no, kumi doesn't write all of them lol, just most. most of her trashy songs weren't written by her. I believe "Physical thing" was probably the first sexy one she wrote, but I believe she still just co-wrote that.

She wrote SHAKE IT All by herself.

[hsienko]

Originally Posted by ImpactBreaker

Funny how you nitpick on small details that don't really mean the point where I was trying to get. Clapping can be used to make an arrangement, and that isn't an instrument, but I was not restricting my point to saying musical instruments as in piano, guitar, etc but any resource you use to producing a sound, be it a piano or a cricket orchestra, since you're into animal music. Also, chill out a little, I mean, no need to losing the temper over the internet

Not really losing my temper since I was being stupid and it was a joke.

Funny, how you were saying that ANYONE can do that, and your example of anyone making lyrics to put into a song is actually...ayu, which was actually the opposite point you were trying to justify. ayu can connect her lyrics with songs, even to pre-existing ones, but she needs to closely work what she'll be writing along with the composition, so she does play an important part on how the arrangements, compositions and lyrics will build together to become a song, which has been my point all over. It's pretty easy to say: "anyone can do that!". That way I can go to youtube and look for "brain tumor excision", see the neurosurgeon cutting here and there and say: oh anyone can operate a brian tumor, just cut here and there. It's pretty simple to say you can do something. The process of doing it is another story.

I just won't be wasting my time on discussing this anymore, though.

Neither will I since your clumsy counter argument is always flipping side. First you say she has everything to do with the composing and arrange music works closely with the composer and arranger when she writes the lyrics and then you say her involvement is minimal because she just writes lyrics and then afterwards may ask for a note change her or there.

This shouldn't have even been anything, all I said was that she writes lyrics and then outsources the actual production of music which everyone knows is fact and a lot of singers do it.

[Nessa]

Okay, I'm not going to read all 6 pages, got through three and I really want to post my thoughts. So, if this idea has been presented before I apologize.

In the early 1990's, heralded by Kurt Cobain came a brand new style of music that swept the nation and still has a rabid fan base today. All of us Americans know what it is, some call it "Grunge" but it's more than that, it was the birth of "Alternative" music, it wasn't rock, it wasn't pop, it wasn't jazz... it was something else and it was good. From that found era of the late 1980s and early 1990s many many many amazing bands have created some godly music, from Nirvana, to Alice In Chains... Love them both. Problem is? Their lead singers are both very very dead. But one group that was in that circle some how managed, even after losing a founding member and a lawsuit against their label, to stay together even now. From their first EP in 1992 to their last album in 2006, the band is currently recording their 6th studio album. This band is Tool. I have loved TOOL and been an avid fan since 1996, right before their release of their first #1 album Ænima. This group cannot be defined by genre. If you have listened to all their music you can pin down certain songs that fit into a specific genre, but not the band and their music as a whole. They try strange, melodic songs that capture your entire psyche, and on the same hand give you a song screaming into the mic with hard drums and wailing guitar. I am still a die hard fan eagerly awaiting their next album.

I only speak of this because Ayu is the same way. I've been a fan of Ayu since 2001 when I first heard "Dearest", then bought "UNITE!" and then my friend bought "I Am..." for me. There was no turning back. She hasn't been around as long as TOOL, but she has released WAY more music than them. It is my firm feeling that some songs you're not going to like, you just don't. There are some TOOL songs I just don't like, I always skip "Ticks and Leeches" and "Rosetta Stoned", in fact MOST of their 5th albums I do not listen to the majority of the tracks. But the tracks I do listen to, are so amazing, that I can almost feel like a spirituality coming from them. It's crazy I know. Anyway, TOOL can't be classified into a genre, while people call Ayu the "Queen of JPoP", she's not. She's strayed so far from "Jpop" that the only way you can call her a Jpop artist is that she Japanese and has some pop songs. She's extremely eclectic. I actually feel like Guilty was great, but safe, while Next Level and RnRc were not. Even these single, to me, seem risky. The only "safe" songs in her last three have been, IMO, "Blossom" and "Sweet Seasons". Other than that, she's trying out different sounds. I ADORE "Moon" I LOVE that song. The lyrics, the melody, I find it an amazing piece that is a mix between a rock ballad and a soft love song. I think "crossroad" was brilliant. I've NEVER heard Ayu do such an outright western style folk song. That took real guts, and with those amazing lyrics, the chords... it's a gorgeous piece of music if you appreciate the western (American) folk over tones. I REALLY respect Ayu's balls for covering TMR's "Seven Days [of] War". The lyrics suit Ayu perfectly, NONE of her two other covers did. This is a real, quality cover that Ayu does complete justice. Her vocals have matured and I can hear that she's getting some coaching and is learning how to work with her maturing vocals on vocal intensive songs. "Seven Days War" is a PERFECT example of her this guttural power she's found in her voice. It's not volume, it's power. You can hear it in "Moon" too; the soft build up to the chorus that just explodes, and it's not the music, if you listen to the pure vocal track, it's her. While I don't much care for "Virgin Road" lyrics, the chorus is an utterly gorgeous melody, and she does have some great lines. But this is a REALLY different type of Ballad for her - there's a formula, but no her normal ballad formula. I don't like the melody of the verses, but the chorus totally makes up for it. And "Last Angel" took me back to My Story & Memorial Address. The lyrics also reflect how she's starting, maybe, to use more mature lyrics. It also perfectly melds rock and pop with electronica, which can be horribly done. Lady Gaga can't even do it right yet. But "Last Angel" has that meld perfect.

So while some of her song are really mreh, it's about looking beyond and realize that it may sounds dull or safe to YOU, but for her, it is a risk. I really believe "Crossroad" as a headlining song, was a huge risk for single promotion. I've weeded out the Ayu songs I have no taste for, but I've found so much beauty in her recent work because I KNOW about American Folk music, I know about electronica, and I can hear the different genres she's merging into one cohesive song. It's actually a very difficult process. My brother is a professional audio engineer, he always babbles this stuff to me ^^;

I hope you guys understood my point!