Ayumi's reputation in Japan

[hayasaki]

Ayu has already become a legend here in Japan. Well, honestly, she's not really that popular with current generation however everyone knows her and somewhat look up to her as someone who have already made a lot of accomplishments music-wise and in her life.

[tourniquet]

Originally Posted by ExodusUK

LOL this discussion reminds me of this letter Max write in 2005 about the Japanese press and Ayu

interesting. too bad it's pretty old now. I wonder if they feel any different about their relationship now.
and even though both wouldn't spell it out so clearly, but of course ayu has been feeling the drag. Memorial address was the result when she simply couldn't hold up to her schedule anymore but since then she always somehow managed again.



on a general note, I find these gross overgeneralization in this thread absolutely terrible. Japanese that, public this... as if there is some great hive-mind controlling all Japanese people and anecdotal evidence from your friends is a matter of scientific research...
no one is ever liked by all people at the same time and even the greatest celebrity is not known by everyone. different things are differently important to different people.

I don't get why you need every new quarter of a year these painful reassurance threads. still struggling to come to terms with her relative loss of power and influence in 2011? what does it matter? she's not gonna starve of hunger, nor has her budget for concerts/PVs/whatever seen any noticeable cuts if it's that what ties you to her.

[Ranma Matsuri]

^After reading this thread, I'm pretty positive just about everyone in this thread HAS come to terms with all things you just mentioned... and I think it goes without saying that any "generalizations" are based on the person's own experiences and encounters and not necessarily the whole of Japan. So I really don't know what point you're trying to get at.

Really, I have no idea why people bother to post in threads they have a problem with.

[PoetGirl]

Originally Posted by Zeke.

Understandable about Madonna. Off-topic but I couldn't and still can't stand 4 Minutes. Yuck.

But about the Britney thing, irrelevent but I don't know anyone who thought she stopped releasing music after Oops! ...
Slave 4 U and Toxic are among her BIGGEST hits ever - Toxic especially and those came years after Oops! ... and everyone knows during her meltdown period about Gimme More and Piece Of Me. So really, I don't think it's a good comparison. Even Britney has more pull than Ayu.

I heard Britney is being played in america's clubs so I think it depends where are you from. In Europe, especially in my country Britney is NO WHERE to be seen. When I say Im Britney fan everyone looks at me like Im insane. They are like 'what, she hasnt released anything after oops'. I have couple of friends that are DJs and asked them why they are not playin' Britney in clubs nor on radio since she has new summer single, but they were like 'She's not hot anymore'. I guess she's just an old artist Ok that was off topic, sorry guys

[owlflight]

From my perspective as a consumer, I follow the releases of artists I like so I have no clue when other artists are releasing stuff (though Lady Gaga couldn't shut up about her next release). I also buy digital for the most part instead of physical copies. I do kind of wonder of how Ayu's physical sales compare to her digital sales if someone happens to have actual numbers. Now if my copy of FIVE could hurry up and get delivered, I think my purchase will count towards Oricon.

[Andrenekoi]

And even if people like to take Madonna as a example of long term influence, in the end of the day, even when she had other peaks, she wasn't the hottest singer between teenagers... I even heard she was a "has-been" during one of her most successful past 80's albums... And still hear she is a "has-been" depending on where do I ask.

Everytime she came back on top of the charts, there was a younger girl overselling her album... Since the 90s, most of Madonna suporters are adults, with some teenagers coming to her from time to time... This is how a popstar life goes... after some time, they will need to choose between apealling to adults, and having lower, but steady sales (this is where Ayu is now... and so are Hikki and Namie), or they will try to keep appealing to teenagers, and most of the time, this throws them into irrelevance...

[AyuGAME]

i just feel that i can't compare them...
because each song has different mood...
Relaxing - Beloved
Touching - Why...
Enthusiastic - Progress

[microphone]

Originally Posted by tourniquet

on a general note, I find these gross overgeneralization in this thread absolutely terrible. Japanese that, public this... as if there is some great hive-mind controlling all Japanese people and anecdotal evidence from your friends is a matter of scientific research...
no one is ever liked by all people at the same time and even the greatest celebrity is not known by everyone. different things are differently important to different people.

I don't get why you need every new quarter of a year these painful reassurance threads. still struggling to come to terms with her relative loss of power and influence in 2011? what does it matter? she's not gonna starve of hunger, nor has her budget for concerts/PVs/whatever seen any noticeable cuts if it's that what ties you to her.

You are making terrible assumptions. I understand that people may have different thoughts but I'm asking for the general consensus. You may not care but others are curious to know. You admitted to this (in bold). My feelings for her character and music are unaffected, I swear!

[Tom Punks]

Originally Posted by Andrenekoi

^Well... I still have to find someone from the USA who knows Hung Up or 4 Minutes without being a Madonna fan, and both songs sold more than 1 million on the USA... 4 minutes actually sold more than 2 millions... And even if Till the world ends it's Britney's best track ever airplay wise, lots of people don't know she released anything after Oops! I did it again!

That's weird, because I've never really been into American music and I've never been a Madonna fan. (I do love practically everything on Celebration, but I've never listened to her albums.) Even though I know hardly any American music, I still knew Hung Up and 4 Minutes. In fact, I thought they were both huge hits because I kept seeing them everywhere. And this is from someone who just knew Party Rock Anthem existed two weekends ago.

I've also personally never heard of anyone thinking Britney stopped releasing music after Oops!... I Did It Again, especially since I'm a Slave 4 U and Toxic were pretty big, weren't they? And everyone was talking about Gimme More. I did get made fun of when I told one of my sisters that I still listen to Britney though. >_>

[channy]

Originally Posted by microphone

I'm sad to know what the general Japanese public thinks of my idol but it doesn't change my feelings for her wonderful music.

O.O

Don't be sad. I am sure you haven't been talking to 130 million Japanese, so there is no way anyone could tell what the 'japanese public' thinks about some pop star.

[Andrenekoi]

Originally Posted by Tom Punks

That's weird, because I've never really been into American music and I've never been a Madonna fan. (I do love practically everything on Celebration, but I've never listened to her albums.) Even though I know hardly any American music, I still knew Hung Up and 4 Minutes. In fact, I thought they were both huge hits because I kept seeing them everywhere. And this is from someone who just knew Party Rock Anthem existed two weekends ago.

I've also personally never heard of anyone thinking Britney stopped releasing music after Oops!... I Did It Again, especially since I'm a Slave 4 U and Toxic were pretty big, weren't they? And everyone was talking about Gimme More. I did get made fun of when I told one of my sisters that I still listen to Britney though. >_>

Well, this is a forum for pop music lovers People over here is more in touch with pop music releases than usual, even when it's not their cup of tea... But I for sure talked to a lot of people who are not into pop music (and that I didn't met on pop music forums) who had no clue about both girls careers... And also, some people posted on the thread they had the same response^^

(and what r u waiting for to listen to Madonna albums? They are all made of win xD)

[microphone]

Originally Posted by ShiSeido

O.O

Don't be sad. I am sure you haven't been talking to 130 million japanese, so there is no way anyone could tell what the 'japanese public' thinks about some pop star.

Well, I said the general Japanese public. I didn't say the entire population.

[ayu_ready?]

I do think that her reputation changes and changed just following her career ups & downs

like if you read her debut album A Song for XX interviews & such, and the questions she has to answer and some radio interviews where people called her and asked random stuff you can clearly see that her image was like she's a newbie but with potential because actually many people liked her debut album. mainly for lyrics of course and no one knew her clearly so she was a kind of mysterious person to them, maybe an alien like, because of the way she wrote the lyrics and the way she replied to the queastions talking about "Ayu is that Ayu is" like about another person. she did seem like a weirdo.

but when the sucess came seems like she actually became more opened and thus of course more rumours etc spread out. but considering NTV 2000 report & such she was considered to be a young innocent talent, natural by the way, not plastic, with much potential, will and future ahead. she seemed lovely to many people.

in 2001 when she was the queen and such many cases were reported in the media about her bad behaviour and celeb's queen attitude like this case with her dog tail and also that she was too vain and demanding towards her staff. but back then, it was my fav era. I knew she was a perfectionst and idk what about now, but back then she was going to get fired by avex and she put it as "I wanted my final work to be complete and perfect, because it was going to be my last and somehow indicate what I am and what I have gained throughout the years, I wanted to prove my strength talent and ability to myself, first of all, and then to avex and my fans". she kinda wanted to punch avex in the face with this. she put all in A BEST and I still think it's her best and her best era. of course because of that she appeared in 40+ covers and programmes and there was a huge promo.
but back then the way people reacted was quite different. of course some were amused but some hated her so much for being everywhere - in KOSE etc ads everywhere in the city & tv, 40+ covers and that when the rumours about her surgery, being fake plastic vain etc arouse. when the fame came.
but even so before that when she released "M" and it was a huge sucess wasn't she actually praised much by the media & public for composing such a big hit and being the author of both music & lyrics?? they all were so surprised and actually acknowledged her talent.

of course in 2002 many were dissapointed because after the sucess of A BEST she didn't manage to keep it up. although I do love I am...but that's people, it's never enough for them. and they told smth like "her era is over" back then, gosh.

in 2002-2003 everything went smooth and the promo was big and ayu ready began and she went to perform in asia and was everywhere again. people talked about her & tomoya & she still had many contracts, and wedding rumour because she had that ring on her middle findger that he presented to her. and her 5th anniversarry. and tour and stadium tour.

in 2004 there was that managament scandal when she told everyone that if avex didn't keep that certain person she'd leave. it was a scandal, wasn't it? ayu ready? ratings never were great but they just fell so gradually and the scandal came up so they closed the programme and her promotions kinda fell too.

with MY STORY she showed new image & new color but the sales were good.and many didn't like the album too and it wasn't Ayuish.

but then after MY STORY maybe because her music changed and promotions and contracts it kinds feels like the interest fell.

with A BEST 2 it was triggered off again but somehow it felt flat or smth. I dunno but public did react quite calmly to that in Japan, kinda, considering it was her best after all.
at that time due to her classic dressups & kira kira jewelry everywhery she was called diva etc. and even more rumours about her retirement & such

and don't forget the glitter/fated case. all newspapers around Japan & Asia talking about Ayu this/that. Ayu on CNN. Asia tour. media renews the report with fresh photos every freaking day. Ayu new rumours with that Chinese actor dont-remember-his-name. and of course the Tomoya break-up. that many accussations of break-up. and much approval too, talking about how bad he was, how good she is to tolerate him, that he was constantly beating her, going out with other girls etc. sympathy and hatred there.
and also that it was 7 years and why they didn't marry and that avex is a monster or TOKIO's management is a monstaaa and that Tomoya wanted to marry and to have children but she refused every time. and how could it be to dump him so easily after 7 years etc
doesn't it count???

and after that bad evolution performance not long ago. media reporting. I bet it hurt her pride, no?
and then that Mannie again, accusing & approving and surprise and disrespect.

it's just normal the popularity fades etc. the media and Ayu itself make the reputation. the image, the fashion, it all counts. the promotion, the certain period of life.

she was quite reserved for a period of her life but now she's more opened and I guess it can hurt reputation even more. her twitter weibo etc and her blog changed. so she makes her reputation itself too, partly.

but in many interviews she said that she has to put up with all response she gets because she's a public person. "I am Ayumi Hamasaki and no one can change that". and she said many times she didn't care what people think actually.

but now at twitter sometimes we see that something, some response hurts her. so....I think she does care about her reputation. but there are certain factors she can't change unfortunately.

sorry for the long post, I love Ayu no matter how many negative comments about her new stuff I post here. she contrubited too much for my life

I think now people don't care about her. they care less about Kuu too. every of them - Ayu, Kuu, Namie, Hikki - they have their certiain niche. but now it's all about hallyu wave and groups and people care too too much less about solo artists. I dunno why, I adore icons. these people are iconic enough, no? some would disagree that Kuu is an icon but to my mind she is, so. I think they are icons and they have that reputation so they are like music heritage, I think.

[tehkotak88]

She is a true remarkable artist,

not some bubblepop teen star or whatever

[yukito]

Originally Posted by ayu_ready?

and of course the Tomoya break-up. that many accussations of break-up. and much approval too, talking about how bad he was, how good she is to tolerate him, that he was constantly beating her, going out with other girls etc. sympathy and hatred there.
and also that it was 7 years and why they didn't marry and that avex is a monster or TOKIO's management is a monstaaa and that Tomoya wanted to marry and to have children but she refused every time. and how could it be to dump him so easily after 7 years etc
doesn't it count???

I have never heard of such a thing! Ayumi being beatin up? Very, very hard to believe.

[MissElin_]

Originally Posted by ayu_ready?

I do think that her reputation changes and changed just following her career ups & downs

like if you read her debut album A Song for XX interviews & such, and the questions she has to answer and some radio interviews where people called her and asked random stuff you can clearly see that her image was like she's a newbie but with potential because actually many people liked her debut album. mainly for lyrics of course and no one knew her clearly so she was a kind of mysterious person to them, maybe an alien like, because of the way she wrote the lyrics and the way she replied to the queastions talking about "Ayu is that Ayu is" like about another person. she did seem like a weirdo.

but when the sucess came seems like she actually became more opened and thus of course more rumours etc spread out. but considering NTV 2000 report & such she was considered to be a young innocent talent, natural by the way, not plastic, with much potential, will and future ahead. she seemed lovely to many people.

in 2001 when she was the queen and such many cases were reported in the media about her bad behaviour and celeb's queen attitude like this case with her dog tail and also that she was too vain and demanding towards her staff. but back then, it was my fav era. I knew she was a perfectionst and idk what about now, but back then she was going to get fired by avex and she put it as "I wanted my final work to be complete and perfect, because it was going to be my last and somehow indicate what I am and what I have gained throughout the years, I wanted to prove my strength talent and ability to myself, first of all, and then to avex and my fans". she kinda wanted to punch avex in the face with this. she put all in A BEST and I still think it's her best and her best era. of course because of that she appeared in 40+ covers and programmes and there was a huge promo.
but back then the way people reacted was quite different. of course some were amused but some hated her so much for being everywhere - in KOSE etc ads everywhere in the city & tv, 40+ covers and that when the rumours about her surgery, being fake plastic vain etc arouse. when the fame came.
but even so before that when she released "M" and it was a huge sucess wasn't she actually praised much by the media & public for composing such a big hit and being the author of both music & lyrics?? they all were so surprised and actually acknowledged her talent.

of course in 2002 many were dissapointed because after the sucess of A BEST she didn't manage to keep it up. although I do love I am...but that's people, it's never enough for them. and they told smth like "her era is over" back then, gosh.

in 2002-2003 everything went smooth and the promo was big and ayu ready began and she went to perform in asia and was everywhere again. people talked about her & tomoya & she still had many contracts, and wedding rumour because she had that ring on her middle findger that he presented to her. and her 5th anniversarry. and tour and stadium tour.

in 2004 there was that managament scandal when she told everyone that if avex didn't keep that certain person she'd leave. it was a scandal, wasn't it? ayu ready? ratings never were great but they just fell so gradually and the scandal came up so they closed the programme and her promotions kinda fell too.

with MY STORY she showed new image & new color but the sales were good.and many didn't like the album too and it wasn't Ayuish.

but then after MY STORY maybe because her music changed and promotions and contracts it kinds feels like the interest fell.

with A BEST 2 it was triggered off again but somehow it felt flat or smth. I dunno but public did react quite calmly to that in Japan, kinda, considering it was her best after all.
at that time due to her classic dressups & kira kira jewelry everywhery she was called diva etc. and even more rumours about her retirement & such

and don't forget the glitter/fated case. all newspapers around Japan & Asia talking about Ayu this/that. Ayu on CNN. Asia tour. media renews the report with fresh photos every freaking day. Ayu new rumours with that Chinese actor dont-remember-his-name. and of course the Tomoya break-up. that many accussations of break-up. and much approval too, talking about how bad he was, how good she is to tolerate him, that he was constantly beating her, going out with other girls etc. sympathy and hatred there.
and also that it was 7 years and why they didn't marry and that avex is a monster or TOKIO's management is a monstaaa and that Tomoya wanted to marry and to have children but she refused every time. and how could it be to dump him so easily after 7 years etc
doesn't it count???

and after that bad evolution performance not long ago. media reporting. I bet it hurt her pride, no?
and then that Mannie again, accusing & approving and surprise and disrespect.

it's just normal the popularity fades etc. the media and Ayu itself make the reputation. the image, the fashion, it all counts. the promotion, the certain period of life.

she was quite reserved for a period of her life but now she's more opened and I guess it can hurt reputation even more. her twitter weibo etc and her blog changed. so she makes her reputation itself too, partly.

but in many interviews she said that she has to put up with all response she gets because she's a public person. "I am Ayumi Hamasaki and no one can change that". and she said many times she didn't care what people think actually.

but now at twitter sometimes we see that something, some response hurts her. so....I think she does care about her reputation. but there are certain factors she can't change unfortunately.

sorry for the long post, I love Ayu no matter how many negative comments about her new stuff I post here. she contrubited too much for my life

I think now people don't care about her. they care less about Kuu too. every of them - Ayu, Kuu, Namie, Hikki - they have their certiain niche. but now it's all about hallyu wave and groups and people care too too much less about solo artists. I dunno why, I adore icons. these people are iconic enough, no? some would disagree that Kuu is an icon but to my mind she is, so. I think they are icons and they have that reputation so they are like music heritage, I think.

I agree to your post. I would just like to add the whole CDL01-02-thingy that got her reputation really bad. I don't think she ever recovered fully from that.

I agree especially the last part in your post about hallyu wave and other groups like AKB48 or EXILE or whatever. Ayu/Kuu/Hikki are... 00's. Namie have got somewhat a little comeback but she's also one of the other icons. I would call all of them for icons. They are so different and great in their own way. I love them all very much. For my own sake (if I can be a bit selfish here) I wish that all of them keep on doing music (Hikki coming back) cuz I can't have enough of them! ^^

[bondingo]

After living in Japan a few months now, I've noticed that the only people I've met who like Ayu here are women in their late twenties or so. It amazes me that she still manages to sell as well as she does, because she really isn't popular at all with the younger crowd.

[koumori]

^ It seems she still works her magic with those that were her fans to begin with, but isn't catching the attention of the new, younger crowd at all. It's a shame.

[letter]

That doesn't mean her music is no good. It might actually be considered a good thing, that what she releases now isn't as mainstream as it once was (plus the age factor). Our expectations are high, because as fans we are used to getting something better every time, and she seems to have stopped going to another level with MY STORY. That's how I see it, at least. MY STORY onwards, feels like a different career, although the person is still the same.

Spoiler:

A Song for ×× < LOVEppears < Duty < I am...

then, RAINBOW was a great follow-up to I am..., and Memorial address felt like an introduction to a new era.

We got MY STORY, which was a let down, but when you look at it like this:

MY STORY - (miss)understood - Secret - GUILTY - NEXT LEVEL - Rock'n'Roll Circus - Love songs

... every album introduces something new. Ayu continues to re-invent herself.

She has grown as a person, and it reflects in her music. It's interesting to see her evolve. If she hadn't, it'd be like reading a long story with no character development. Although, I admit, I find this "character development" more intriguing in the first half of her career.

[bondingo]

Originally Posted by Koumori

^ It seems she still works her magic with those that were her fans to begin with, but isn't catching the attention of the new, younger crowd at all. It's a shame.

Exactly. To be honest, if her career had started with, say, GUILTY or NEXT LEVEL I probably would have never even got into her.

Originally Posted by letter

That doesn't mean her music is no good.

No one said that lol