What would ayu need to do to get amuro-likes sales numbers?

[Andrenekoi]

Originally Posted by KarenPang

They're the very same group of people who're completely disillusional & still feels that every single thing that Ayu puts out is great/perfect/flawless no matter how bad the music and/or covers are

And when the covers are bad , they still are in deny how really bad they're in reality

I think for longtime sane fans of Ayu , you will know what's the era(s) & songs that define when she was at her best . I'm not speaking from sales perspective but from when she nailed every aspect well (from image , lyrically , vocally & the way her past PVs were executed in conveying the message she wanted to bring across the board)

Recently I spoke to a friend who's also a longtime Ayu fan & she said the last release she was really impressed of her was FIVE & that was 4 years ago . She used to buy her releases but she already stopped doing that

Ayu is the 1st Japanese artiste I listened to . As such no matter how many bad choices she has made over the years since then , she still has a special place in my heart but I've already long accepted that her peak is over . If in the future she still can manage to pull something great that will blow me away , I say bring it on as I haven't have that WOW feeling from her in a very long time now

Are you aware of how pretentious and arrogant you sound right there?

I'm sorry if some people around here didn't know this, but taste is subjective. Trying to look down on people who like music you dislike only make you "sound" juveline.

[hsienko]

Originally Posted by Gustavopc

I wonder how the general Japanese public reacted to her covering globe? Were there any news on this? Maybe covering Hikki and now globe are a bit of strategy for her image. idk how it works exactly in Japan, but covering a song is a good move.

It was ignored/mocked. The japanese public don't like Ayumi, they don't respect her or the legacy she once had; They mock and laugh at her. They see what we're all saying and what the other keep denying: that she's a one-trick pony and her only trick is played out. They don't like her grandiose lavish lifestyle. They think she's a has-been, a wanna be Lady Gaga. She's out of touch with the times and the public, and she needs to put clothes on because they're tired of seeing her fat legs and bad figure. "Empress of J-pop" you will never see anyone use that to describe her anymore she's more like "Marquess of Flop." These are comments no one says about Amuro, Hikki, or Koda Kumi so there it is.

You can go to this website to see the japanese public's response to Ayumi news.

[murasakinohana]

Funny story, but a little sad. I used to work at Fujitsu Singapore. I was striking up a conversation with a Japanese colleague. "Yuri-chan, which part of Japan do you hail from?" "Ohh I'm from Fukuoka ne.." "Ahhh just like Hamasaki Ayumi!" And she legit rolled her eyes at me in disgust. Needless to say, I was taken aback and just smiled sheepishly at her. #random

[LONJJONG]

^ Oh, what a shame!

[Minttulatte]

The reason why I like Ayu's new releases is that I don't compare her music to her old music. That's just stupid. I expect absolutely nothing and therefore I end up liking her songs. Although there are many that needs to grow on me for a long time until I can say I like them (same with some of her oldies, too). Because I don't expect much, I can easily find at least 3 songs on every release that I like, and there's also songs that I only like because of the lyrics I can relate to.

But I also have noticed that no matter how much I love her new releases these days, I lose my interest in them quite soon as well. It wasn't like that when Secret or GUILTY (I became a fan after (miss)understood was released) which I listened on repeat for weeks after the release. Only Rock'n'Roll Circus and Party Queen has had that effect on me from newer albums so far. Sixxxxxx also has that but I try not to listen to it so much that I end up feeling it's boring as hell (happened with GUILTY eventually).

Originally Posted by murasakinohana

Funny story, but a little sad. I used to work at Fujitsu Singapore. I was striking up a conversation with a Japanese colleague. "Yuri-chan, which part of Japan do you hail from?" "Ohh I'm from Fukuoka ne.." "Ahhh just like Hamasaki Ayumi!" And she legit rolled her eyes at me in disgust. Needless to say, I was taken aback and just smiled sheepishly at her. #random

That sucks! D: I would be happy to share the same hometown with Ayu. :'<

[chocopockymaster]

Originally Posted by hsienko

It was ignored/mocked. The japanese public don't like Ayumi, they don't respect her or the legacy she once had; They mock and laugh at her. They see what we're all saying and what the other keep denying: that she's a one-trick pony and her only trick is played out. They don't like her grandiose lavish lifestyle. They think she's a has-been, a wanna be Lady Gaga. She's out of touch with the times and the public, and she needs to put clothes on because they're tired of seeing her fat legs and bad figure. "Empress of J-pop" you will never see anyone use that to describe her anymore she's more like "Marquess of Flop." These are comments no one says about Amuro, Hikki, or Koda Kumi so there it is.

You can go to this website to see the japanese public's response to Ayumi news.

Your rants on this subject have been some of the most deluded things I have ever read on this forum.

And please, don't be like LOOK AT HOW MUCH THE JAPANESE PUBLIC HATES HER and then direct us to girlschannel, of all places. Really? That's like saying the scummiest subreddits to ever exist are an accurate representation of the view of the general public.

[oaristos]

Originally Posted by hsienko

I've followed Ayumi Hamasaki since 2002 which is longer than you have, I feel as a decades long fan, people like you are the reason for her decline you keep putting this idea in her head on twitter and other social media that music from 1995 is what her fans want to listen to when its not true. I'm sure you have all sorts of modern artists you're listening to but instead of saying things on twitter or facebook which Ayumi has shown she's listen to, you won't say "This song is boring" or "This song sucks" and that's why she's disillusioned and keeps releasing crappy music. Now you can say whatever, it really doesn't matter the sales show the music sucks.

That's the most ridiculous thing I have ever read in my entire life and I can't believe you expect to be taken seriously here.

[Andrenekoi]

I once met a japanese woman that is living in Brazil and I told her I love Matsutoya Yumi (she left Japan before Ayu debuted), she rolled her eyes and replied she really disliked her. So, based on that experience I can say every single japanese person hates Yuming! <3

[melissalove]

Originally Posted by oaristos

That's the most ridiculous thing I have ever read in my entire life and I can't believe you expect to be taken seriously here.

Deep in our hearts we all love ayu. But we can't deny that ayu's head is still in the year 2000. It sounds like a good thing but it's really not.. Once I Suggested ayu return to her roots and now I take it back perminantly. I can't see one more live with her old hits on them. when she's got new material in desperate need of promotion.

[Chibi-Chan]

Well, if everyone is telling anecdotes, I tell one too.
After I finished my studies in politics I started studying japanology. So I became friends with two japanese girls (both age 22) who studied in Germany for a year. Both know Ayu and her classics and they like them. None of them ever said a bad word about her and they respect her. They aren't into her and don't know her newer stuff but well, I also don't know any recent releases from any famous western popstar out there because I simply don't care (minus BritBrit ♡).
One evening I was out drinking with one of them and a few friends of mine. Later we decided to go to my place and continue drinking there. Because I was a little drunk I started fangirling about Ayu and somehow "forced" them to watch recent Ayu concerts. Rika (the japanese girl) had a lot of fun watching me fangirling about Ayu and was pretty amused by it. She told Rikako (the other japanese girl) about it and the next time I was with Rikako at my place she was like "let's watch Ayu together!". So we baked a cake and afterwards were eating cake and watching Ayu. She REALLY enjoyed watching the concert and I was so surprised how many songs up to Love songs she knew and was able to sing along! She isn't a fan at all and I asked her why she knows all those songs and she was just like "well sometimes I hear them on the radio or people sing them at karaoke".
Based on my experience I would think Ayu's reputation isn't that bad. I mean, it's not like every human being out there is interested in gossip and loves to hate on people they don't care for in their everyday lifes.

[Delirium-Zer0]

I think the Fukuoka eyeroll can be VERY easily explained by the fact that Ayu was EVERYWHERE back in the day, and being from Fukuoka was a big part of her image & branding, so she probably heard "Oh, you're from Fukuoka like Ayumi Hamasaki!" a crapton back in the day and got sick of it... poor thing, she probably thought she'd escaped XD

[DonkeyKongRemix]

I can't help but wonder why some people are even on this website! LOL The amount of honesty is starting to sound more like straight up hatin' but maybe it's just me. O.O

I personally don't think Ayu has much of a chance bringing in new fans in Japan. (I mean, for the most part at least) I really think she should do whatever the heck she wants because she has:

1)the money to do so
2)years worth of experience
3)the passion for writing and a true artistic talent

If she however really wanted to do well I think she should keep listening to what the fans want and try and appeal to them the most.

On another note...

Why do some people insist that no one wants music that sounds "dated?" Have you ever wondered maybe YOU didn't want music like that so instead you try and make it seem like everyone else is of the same opinion as you except for some of the users on here? Just a thought. I think it's important in discussions to remember that opinions are not necessarily facts.

I mean...I like her older stuff from her first few years but I don't expect everyone else to think that way.

Sorry if that's a huge rant, though.

[Coelacanth]

26 natl universities to abolish humanities, social sciences

The agenda of worldwide neoliberalism is to phase out any kind of substantial self-reflection, contemplation, and "feeling" of any kind in favor of individual contribution to the free market.

This mindset has spread to the arts, and inevitably to popular music. Ayu's contemplative lyrics and dated musical style (and by "dated" I mean that her music favors melody, harmony, and lyrics over "innovative" production-- I don't mean to use that term pejoratively like others here do) are simply unfit for the times.

“Creativity,” meanwhile, is basically a business concept, aligned with the other clichés that have come to us from the management schools by way of Silicon Valley: “disruption,” “innovation,” “transformation.” “Creativity” is not about becoming an artist. No one wants you to become an artist. It’s about devising “innovative” products, services, and techniques — “solutions,” which imply that you already know the problem. “Creativity” means design thinking, in the terms articulated by the writer Amy Whitaker, not art thinking: getting from A to a predetermined B, not engaging in an open-ended exploratory process in the course of which you discover the B.

As much as Ayu is selling a product at the end of the day (as are all popular musicians signed to a record label with a "marketing" staff), she has proved to me that she is an "artist" and not merely a "creative."

The above quote describes Namie, most (if not all) of the K-pop acts, and pretty much all of contemporary Western pop/EDM charting on Billboard. Increasingly there has become an algorithm to success, even to successful art.

In the far away future when neoliberalism/technocracy finally collapses and the dust settles, when humans return to valuing visceral "consciousness" over artificial intelligence, and mark my words on this, no one is going to be checking for Namie's "hip-pop" music. But perhaps, just perhaps--future humans might stumble across an album called "A ONE" and be enchanted. When everyone else in 2015 was singing party anthems/"self-esteem" anthems (escapism), there was a little Japanese woman confronting the loneliness, anxiety, and alienation she was feeling in a postmodern world, just as she had been doing 16 years prior.

[Delirium-Zer0]

I think the amount of tribute albums that sold insanely well a few years back is proof positive that people don't mind "dated." Or at the very least, they enjoy what they consider to be familiar & timeless.

I don't disagree that perhaps that's not what people want from AYU though, given how relatively novel her sound on LOVEppears, Duty, and the singles before I am... were. The more sparse (and often clumsy) production of TK family tracks were what was winning on the charts until Utada Hikaru's western production sensibilities resulted in "First Love" and Ayu had western mixers like Steve Churchyard and Dave Way work on LOVEppears in order to get the more slick, full, deep sound that album had.

Ayu & Max could see that this sound was going to be the standard fairly quickly (and sure enough it was), and they were smart to go with that. But that sound REALLY REALLY fits ayu's loud, charismatic vocal style, it fits the emotionally complex & dark lyrics she has, and it was close to what she was listening to in her early 20s - darker, more rock-leaning stuff that was a mix of genres like Smashing Pumpkins and Kid Rock.

The big problem for Ayu, sadly, is that I think the current EDM trend just doesn't fit with Ayu that well - it's too positive, too sunny, and too artificial. But positive, sunny, and artificial are what people want right now. Ayu doing a more throwback sound is sort of a good aural cue for people as to what kind of pop artist she is. I think it's an overcorrection, to be sure, but the big beat/industrial influenced dance pop she was doing is just too rough around the edges for the music listening public these days.

All things considered, seeing as how the pop music market is REALLY REALLY stacked against an artist like 1999-2003 era Ayu, I think Ayu's doing pretty well. lol

[Andrenekoi]

Originally Posted by Coelacanth

26 natl universities to abolish humanities, social sciences

The agenda of worldwide neoliberalism is to phase out any kind of substantial self-reflection, contemplation, and "feeling" of any kind in favor of individual contribution to the free market.

This mindset has spread to the arts, and inevitably to popular music. Ayu's contemplative lyrics and dated musical style (and by "dated" I mean that her music favors melody, harmony, and lyrics over "innovative" production-- I don't mean to use that term pejoratively like others here do) are simply unfit for the times.



As much as Ayu is selling a product at the end of the day (as are all popular musicians signed to a record label with a "marketing" staff), she has proved to me that she is an "artist" and not merely a "creative."

The above quote describes Namie, most (if not all) of the K-pop acts, and pretty much all of contemporary Western pop/EDM charting on Billboard. Increasingly there has become an algorithm to success, even to successful art.

In the far away future when neoliberalism/technocracy finally collapses and the dust settles, when humans return to valuing visceral "consciousness" over artificial intelligence, and mark my words on this, no one is going to be checking for Namie's "hip-pop" music. But perhaps, just perhaps--future humans might stumble across an album called "A ONE" and be enchanted. When everyone else in 2015 was singing party anthems/"self-esteem" anthems (escapism), there was a little Japanese woman confronting the loneliness, anxiety, and alienation she was feeling in a postmodern world, just as she had been doing 16 years prior.

I really really really loved this. Do you have more material regarding this subject? I've been studing this issue from a communication and from a education point of view, but I don't have much info from a economic point of view.

And yeap, I pretty much agree with everything... This actually reminds me of Gaga... Releasing safe, already tested "different" aesthetics, that are already part of the mainstream, but unknown for the younger generation, without any deep comentary or deep though, and selling it as artsy.

[NintendoHTF1242]

Originally Posted by Coelacanth

26 natl universities to abolish humanities, social sciences

The agenda of worldwide neoliberalism is to phase out any kind of substantial self-reflection, contemplation, and "feeling" of any kind in favor of individual contribution to the free market.

This mindset has spread to the arts, and inevitably to popular music. Ayu's contemplative lyrics and dated musical style (and by "dated" I mean that her music favors melody, harmony, and lyrics over "innovative" production-- I don't mean to use that term pejoratively like others here do) are simply unfit for the times.



As much as Ayu is selling a product at the end of the day (as are all popular musicians signed to a record label with a "marketing" staff), she has proved to me that she is an "artist" and not merely a "creative."

The above quote describes Namie, most (if not all) of the K-pop acts, and pretty much all of contemporary Western pop/EDM charting on Billboard. Increasingly there has become an algorithm to success, even to successful art.

In the far away future when neoliberalism/technocracy finally collapses and the dust settles, when humans return to valuing visceral "consciousness" over artificial intelligence, and mark my words on this, no one is going to be checking for Namie's "hip-pop" music. But perhaps, just perhaps--future humans might stumble across an album called "A ONE" and be enchanted. When everyone else in 2015 was singing party anthems/"self-esteem" anthems (escapism), there was a little Japanese woman confronting the loneliness, anxiety, and alienation she was feeling in a postmodern world, just as she had been doing 16 years prior.

lol the fuck did I just read. Also, I'm pretty sure everyone is aware Ayu is an AMAZING writer. The way she writes her music is so phenomenal. But A ONE is still boring and basic (except Story tbh). But anyway

[Coelacanth]

Originally Posted by Delirium-Zer0

Ayu doesn't NEED to do anything - more to the point, she can't.

Her appeal to begin with was that she was making music & writing songs that were particularly timely. They were songs that people needed/wanted to hear, because no one wrote pop songs with subject matter like she did. She was very unusually frank about heartbreak and hope and loss and relief in a way that was unheard of in pop at the time, and millennial Japan was a very stressful place for teenagers, young girls in particular, because of some of the social & economic changes at the time doing battle with much of Japan's conservatism. Suicides due to stress were very high, girls were trying to find their place in the world, and Ayu's words struck a chord with THOSE people at THAT time.

Her appeal had nothing to do with her doing anything specific or trying to be anything in particular - it was luck. Just like most huge successes are, to be honest. Luck COULD strike again, but it's not up to her if it does.

This post probably should have ended the thread.

When Ayu was starting out, considerably large chances were taken on new talent. This is not the case anymore. Burgeoning success was often spontaneous, unpredictable. I don't think Ayu's branding team ever really had a clear idea of what they were doing with her until maybe MY STORY came out when particular formulas were starting to arise.

Originally Posted by Andrenekoi

I really really really loved this. Do you have more material regarding this subject? I've been studing this issue from a communication and from a education point of view, but I don't have much info from a economic point of view.

And yeap, I pretty much agree with everything... This actually reminds me of Gaga... Releasing safe, already tested "different" aesthetics, that are already part of the mainstream, but unknown for the younger generation, without any deep comentary or deep though, and selling it as artsy.

Maybe check out "The New Prophets of Capital" by Nicole Aschoff for an excellent critique of the economic consequences of neoliberalism and also "Culture Crash: The Killing of the Creative Class" by Scott Timberg, both released in 2015. PM me, I think I have the PDF's somewhere.

[hsienko]

I think its just best for all of to agree to disagree and one of the mods lock this thread.

Clearly there are those who are delusional and in denial and those who accept the truth about the current situation. Jpop was a fad that had its moment in the sun but now its dead. Japanese culture only provided to a niche market that is uninterested in it now (emo teenagers) and JPOP was unable to solidify a permanent place in the world. Anime is no longer cool, japanese culture is not what the kids in the west are obsessing over. With Kpop, Chinese culture becoming more notable, and Europop becoming interesting again, there's no reason to keep rehashing over the same played out Jpop songs from 2002. It was fun for a while, but no one wants to talk about Utada's First Love or see the performance of SURREAL at Countdown Live 2001 or talk about Namie Vs Ayu for the umpteenth billionth time (clearly Amuro won btw) and obsess over feuds that have been going on for 20-30 years already. No one really cares about TA or Oricon chart rating anymore except for the same 10 delusional people on this forum. What is a sticker and wallpaper as fanclub gift supposed to do for me? Most of the acts charting in Japan right now are imports or girl/boy groups because even the japanese admit their domestic acts suck so there you go.

[bulmasman]

Considering the amount of acts from Japan that have been doing world tours over the last few years, albums being released in territories outside of Asia and so on, your notion of JPOP being dead is utterly wrong. A quick glance over both Oricon and Billboard for the last month shows, shockingly, Japanese acts charting high, with Carly Rae Jepsen the only noticeable western act in the top 10. You're shutting people down who don't share your view of things as "delusional and in denial", yet you're the one throwing out ridiculous statements that make little to no sense.

I personally have been an Ayu fan since 2001. I fell in love with her then, and I still personally believe that everything up to Memorial Address is her best body of work. I don't think music does need to constantly change with the times in order to be good, and shockingly I thoroughly enjoyed A One and Sixxxxxx, but only dedicated a small amount of time to some of her previous albums. People like what people like. It doesn't make them sheep, doesn't mean they're delusional and most certainly doesn't mean they deserve to be spoken about in such a way. If you're not a fan of her current output, you're more than welcome to your opinion, but you're making that age old internet mistake of interchanging opinion and fact which, let's be fair, is never a good thing to do.

Also, asking mods to lock the thread because, essentially, nobody has agreed with you, is not the best option here. There's a decent discussion going on, but you don't have to join it if it annoys you so much.

[Andrenekoi]

Originally Posted by hsienko

I think its just best for all of to agree to disagree and one of the mods lock this thread.

Clearly there are those who are delusional and in denial and those who accept the truth about the current situation. Jpop was a fad that had its moment in the sun but now its dead. Japanese culture only provided to a niche market that is uninterested in it now (emo teenagers) and JPOP was unable to solidify a permanent place in the world. Anime is no longer cool, japanese culture is not what the kids in the west are obsessing over. With Kpop, Chinese culture becoming more notable, and Europop becoming interesting again, there's no reason to keep rehashing over the same played out Jpop songs from 2002. It was fun for a while, but no one wants to talk about Utada's First Love or see the performance of SURREAL at Countdown Live 2001 or talk about Namie Vs Ayu for the umpteenth billionth time (clearly Amuro won btw) and obsess over feuds that have been going on for 20-30 years already. No one really cares about TA or Oricon chart rating anymore except for the same 10 delusional people on this forum. What is a sticker and wallpaper as fanclub gift supposed to do for me? Most of the acts charting in Japan right now are imports or girl/boy groups because even the japanese admit their domestic acts suck so there you go.

You know, this is the problem with weeaboos... You have a whole country with it's own culture, it's own tradition and aesthetics, with 126,880,000 people living on it, and for some sick reason you believe all of those people are producing whatever they are producing to please you.

You know who is consuming jpop? Japanese people. That's why AKB48 are selling so much singles, that's why a lot of jpop and jrock acts that have no appeal to the overseas public are selling tons and tons of copies for decades now.

You know who is consuming anime and manga? Japanese people. That's why nowadays there are new anime series being produced at a pace that was unimaginable during the international anime boom.

You know who is still interested in Utada's First Love, Namie x Ayu, Utada x Ayu? Japanese people. And you just need to go to any of those message boards people around here love posting as if that was an universal statement of the whole japanese population opinion about anything japanese.

And even so, not all of them care about those stuff, on the same way not everyone on the USA follows Justin Bieber, cares about who Taylor Swift is feuding with or read comic books.

They aren't doing what they do so some western insecure people with no friends can believe they are special, they do what they do because they consume it. People overseas consuming it too is both an accident and always considered strange by them, so don't come over here trying to measure their success on pleasing you. You are nothing to them.