[Charts & Rankings] AKB48 surpass Ayu as best selling female Japanese artist

[Andrenekoi]

Originally Posted by Diego-kun

Ayu has had albums with different covers but, aside from that, the content was the exactly same. Fans had the choice to choose their favorite cover when purchasing the album and that's it. How many people do you guys think that got 6 different copies of A BEST just to collect the different covers? My bet is 1% at most. ASFXX, LOVEppears, Duty, I am... and RAINBOW sales are huge and they had a single edition with just one cover.

AKB48 and other idol groups release singles with different songs, PV, photobooks, etc for each edition. That's the gimmick. I used to be an AKB48 fan, in fact, I own 26 singles and 4 albums. I bought just one version per single/album mainly because I'm not that wealthy. If you wanna be their number one fan you'll feel the need to buy multiple copies to get all the content. The problem is you will have to spend a lot on CD cabinets to keep them too .

Later into her career, when her name alone wasn't enough to have huge sales, Ayu actually did release different versions of the same release with different content, like the bonus gifts, different remixes, etc, so even someone who only wanted to have every track she ever released would need to buy more than one version.

And Oricon itself already said the point of the chart is pointing out who sells the most in Japan, not who is most popular. The main point is helping the industry knows who is more viable as a marketing brand. AKB48 is selling a lot, it doesn't matter if it's not to a lot of people if the fandom still buys several of a chocolate, for example, the girls are promoting.

[njanjayrp]

Originally Posted by Andrenekoi

Later into her career, when her name alone wasn't enough to have huge sales, Ayu actually did release different versions of the same release with different content, like the bonus gifts, different remixes, etc, so even someone who only wanted to have every track she ever released would need to buy more than one version.

And Oricon itself already said the point of the chart is pointing out who sells the most in Japan, not who is most popular. The main point is helping the industry knows who is more viable as a marketing brand. AKB48 is selling a lot, it doesn't matter if it's not to a lot of people if the fandom still buys several of a chocolate, for example, the girls are promoting.

That all stands. However at least during her peak Ayu did not have to release X different versions of an album to get it to sell. It was mostly when avex was desperately trying to keep the streak and break the record (Mirrorcle World anyone?) that they started to go all gimmicky which is as legit as what AKB's management is doing. The thing that I find debatable is their cultural impact and the significance of their music.

[Chibi-Chan]

Originally Posted by oaristos

I have to disagree, I don't think they've had any real impact in the Japanese music industry apart from their huge sales.

AKB48 is marketed mostly as a fetish for older men who are interested in really young-looking girls whose record label swears are all virgins. That's why having a boyfriend, drinking, and partying is completely forbidden for them). There's something lacking in the life of those old men and they fill the gap inside them with an obsession for a girl band that lacks any real talent or skill (at least for music).

I don't care that someone outsold Ayumi, it just bothers me that even though AKB48 is very popular, their sales are only huge because each fan spends 1/3 of their house income purchasing 200 copies of each single. They're not ashamed of that and even post the pictures online. Those are not real sales, that's not real popularity and finally, that's not a real impact.

And last but not least, I am not by any means trying to offend any of the girls personally or any of their fans. You should listen to whatever you want and buy as many CDs as you want, but I also believe it's extremely important to be realistic.

Because I think that's the best comment here and I wouldn't be able to phrase it better at all, I just repost it. =)

[Andrenekoi]

Originally Posted by njanjayrp

That all stands. However at least during her peak Ayu did not have to release X different versions of an album to get it to sell. It was mostly when avex was desperately trying to keep the streak and break the record (Mirrorcle World anyone?) that they started to go all gimmicky which is as legit as what AKB's management is doing. The thing that I find debatable is their cultural impact and the significance of their music.

I don't think they had much of a cultural impact either. Manufaturated acts rarely do.

[melissalove]

Ya'll need to relax, ayu's still up there when it comes to legends. Akb48 sold more so what?? That doesn't make them disgusting or culturally irrelevant at all.

[Corvina]

Originally Posted by rainbow_smile

Sorry, I'm a bit offtopicbut can you link me the source, please? I tell my friends every once in a while that digital sales are far lower than physical sales in Japan, but they never believe me, so I'd like to have something to back up my claims haha

Sure. You can find it directly at the IFPI, which measures stuff like that (http://www.ifpi.org/global-statistics.php).
Or you can find a statistic over at Wikipedia, using the IFPI data:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glob...ket_share_data

@Oaristos:
I see.
But measuring popularity is complicated on its own like somebody already said. I mean, AKB has fans willing to spend that much on them ( and not on other idol groups e.g.).I remember reading an article in 2013 or 2014 about one guy bulkbuying their singles.
And his answer to why was, that he doesn't know another way to show his love and support for the group.
It's somewhat crazy, but it is an achievement as well, I guess, to have such fans.
And their handshake events were huge at their prime (here's an experience in English: http://blog.nilghe.com/my-akb48-handshake-experience/) in stadiums and all, and their performing there as well before the handshake.
So as long as the record company or the CEO isn't buying their own stuff, but actual fans do, I personally don't see a problem.

[visionfactory]

Originally Posted by Andrenekoi

I don't think they had much of a cultural impact either. Manufaturated acts rarely do.

Maeda Atsuko's hairstyle had a heavy impact for a while but now the trend is gone

ayu's blonde & fashion had a heavy impact in 2000 and look how Kana Nishino is still out there living from what ayu raised

Originally Posted by Corvina

So as long as the record company or the CEO isn't buying their own stuff, but actual fans do, I personally don't see a problem.

I kind of sense that you think is ethic the way fans wallet is exploited by AKB. If it was ethic in the first place AKB wouldn't have been kicked out from their previous record company SONY (After the conglomerate was sued for a marketing practice of putting 1 out of 48 random posters inside of CDs, therefore even if you buy all the 48 CDs you wouldn't get all the posters).

[njanjayrp]

Originally Posted by melissalove

Ya'll need to relax, ayu's still up there when it comes to legends. Akb48 sold more so what?? That doesn't make them disgusting or culturally irrelevant at all.

We are all very relaxed. Just discussing a topic.

[Trinu]

I knew this thread would be fun lol

Originally Posted by oaristos

AKB48 is marketed mostly as a fetish for older men who are interested in really young-looking girls whose record label swears are all virgins. That's why having a boyfriend, drinking, and partying is completely forbidden for them). There's something lacking in the life of those old men and they fill the gap inside them with an obsession for a girl band that lacks any real talent or skill (at least for music).

Sure, that's why this year, after one girl announced she was getting MARRIED, the producer asked her to stay in the group.
That's why Sashihara Rino, after a scandal, ranked 1st in their election FOUR times (three in a row).

Your last sentence is such a low blow that it'sjust wrong.
Someone could say there must be something lacking in the life of some kids who write thousands of posts in an online forum.

Originally Posted by himawariii6

Yes, I went to check on stage48 and AKB48+sister groups+sakamichi (Nogizaka46 and Keyakizaka46)+graduated members of all of that = 1206 members.

You make it sound as if those 1000 girls are doing handshakes to get these sales.
The Sakamichi are completely separated from AKB, and even between them they don't share events.

AKB is the only one that uses the sister groups (the other 48) in their events, which would amount to 300 members.

As for gimmicks, let's not pretend Ayu didn't release A BEST 2 BLACK/WHITE.
Or that she didn't release two mini albums (LOVE and again) to mash them up in a GASP full length album!
Please.

I do agree that comparing the sales is BS, tbf.
Ayu got most of these sales back in the 00s (she's just added like 500k to her total in the last 5 years), while AKB sells more events than music itself.

For AKB's management Oricon is just another gimmick. Free publicity, basically.
Same reason the million streak is so important for them, because they gets articles and clicks.

Still, to say they didn't have any impact in the industry is a fallacy.
2010 - 2013 was basically about them.
Songs like Heavy Rotation, Everyday Katyusha or Koisuru Fortune Cookie were proper hits that stayed in the charts for months.
They did dome concerts and dome tours around the country, etcetera.

Had it not been for AKB, Morning Musume (and the rest of the Hello! Project) wouldn't have resurfaced again, and same goes for the whole idol industry.
Had it not been for that idol boom, magazines like OVERTURE or UPDATE girls wouldn't have been born (which are more about fashion than flashing boobs, mind you).
Their importance goes beyond creepy otakus unable to get laid.

So yeah, they had an impact and they were popular.
Are they as popular now? Hell no. They even can't admit it, but it shows whenever they do a concert and you compare it to what they used to do back in the day.

But don't Ayu's sales reflect exactly the same? That her peak is gone?

[rainbow_smile]

Originally Posted by Corvina

Sure. You can find it directly at the IFPI, which measures stuff like that (http://www.ifpi.org/global-statistics.php).
Or you can find a statistic over at Wikipedia, using the IFPI data:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glob...ket_share_data

This was interesting to read, thank you ^^

Originally Posted by visionfactory

After the conglomerate was sued for a marketing practice of putting 1 out of 48 random posters inside of CDs, therefore even if you buy all the 48 CDs you wouldn't get all the posters.

Wow, putting random stuff in CDs is illegal? Then the whole kpop industry should be sued (random photocards and whatnot) or is it only illegal if it's posters? I'm not being sarcastic btw, I'm genuinely curious.

Also, my opinion on AKB48 outselling Ayu... I'm not surprised at all. A little upset, because I love Ayu, but this day was going to come sooner or later. All records will be broken eventually. I'm not stanning ayu for bragging rights anyway.

[tokyoxjapanxfan]

They impacted the industry in the sense that every label tried to make copy cat groups because they were the only act selling records. The influx in idol groups isn't necessarily a positive thing.

Morning Musume sold well in an era when many, many acts were selling well. Idols were only one aspect of Japanese music. The charts from the 90s until maybe 2006/7 were filled with various types of music, as well as solo, bands, duos, and idol groups.

Since 2008/9, the highest selling artists each year were Arashi and AKB. And AKB's sister groups as well as JE made up the majority of the remaining top 10.

For people who enjoy a plethora of genres and artists, this is a frustrating situation. Especially because of the means by which AKB sells their music. And to be honest, many AKB fans are 30+ men with money to blow. Does that mean that all of them are? No. But many are. Middle school students and high school students don't have a lot of money to spend, and music has become one of the less important things to buy physically. Clothes, smartphones, and hair -- like western countries, have become the most important for teens. So artists that can sell millions now are very rare. Hence AKBs sales are looked at with a skeptical eye.

AKB (and idol groups in general) are only as successful as their members allow. Now that the faces of AKB have all left, holding on to known members is more valuable for their relevance. Not to mention the head shaving incident became news all over the world. Perhaps there are exceptions, but generally speaking, the members during the peak remain the well known figures. Once they leave, the interest in the group starts to fade, as does the influence of their music on the industry.


Ayu has used tactics to sell singles/albums, as have most other artists in Japan. Thats normal in Japan. However, events that specifically allow you to meet members, vote on the next members, and directly interact with the artist, along with photo books and included songs, and different members on each cover, is not the same. Particularly when done over and over again.

[hud]

Originally Posted by Trinu

I knew this thread would be fun lol

haha yeah that's why I made it

[himawariii6]

Originally Posted by Trinu

I knew this thread would be fun lol



Sure, that's why this year, after one girl announced she was getting MARRIED, the producer asked her to stay in the group.
That's why Sashihara Rino, after a scandal, ranked 1st in their election FOUR times (three in a row).

Your last sentence is such a low blow that it'sjust wrong.
Someone could say there must be something lacking in the life of some kids who write thousands of posts in an online forum.



You make it sound as if those 1000 girls are doing handshakes to get these sales.
The Sakamichi are completely separated from AKB, and even between them they don't share events.

AKB is the only one that uses the sister groups (the other 48) in their events, which would amount to 300 members.

As a matter of fact, I wasn't even talking about their sales or making a comparision. People were contemplating how much members the 48g/46g had so far and I said the total.

Originally Posted by tokyoxjapanxfan

They impacted the industry in the sense that every label tried to make copy cat groups because they were the only act selling records. The influx in idol groups isn't necessarily a positive thing.

Morning Musume sold well in an era when many, many acts were selling well. Idols were only one aspect of Japanese music. The charts from the 90s until maybe 2006/7 were filled with various types of music, as well as solo, bands, duos, and idol groups.

Since 2008/9, the highest selling artists each year were Arashi and AKB. And AKB's sister groups as well as JE made up the majority of the remaining top 10.

For people who enjoy a plethora of genres and artists, this is a frustrating situation. Especially because of the means by which AKB sells their music. And to be honest, many AKB fans are 30+ men with money to blow. Does that mean that all of them are? No. But many are. Middle school students and high school students don't have a lot of money to spend, and music has become one of the less important things to buy physically. Clothes, smartphones, and hair -- like western countries, have become the most important for teens. So artists that can sell millions now are very rare. Hence AKBs sales are looked at with a skeptical eye.

AKB (and idol groups in general) are only as successful as their members allow. Now that the faces of AKB have all left, holding on to known members is more valuable for their relevance. Not to mention the head shaving incident became news all over the world. Perhaps there are exceptions, but generally speaking, the members during the peak remain the well known figures. Once they leave, the interest in the group starts to fade, as does the influence of their music on the industry.


Ayu has used tactics to sell singles/albums, as have most other artists in Japan. Thats normal in Japan. However, events that specifically allow you to meet members, vote on the next members, and directly interact with the artist, along with photo books and included songs, and different members on each cover, is not the same. Particularly when done over and over again.

This. I agree with this so much.
Not to mention, some of the lyrics are problematic: promote harassment (Getsuyoubi no Asa, Skirt wo Kirareta by Keyakizaka46) and enjo kosai (sefuku ga jama suru) and some HKT48 song basically said women should focus on pretty and that they were stupid (Einstein yori Dianna Agron)

[SunshineSlayer]

Originally Posted by Kanariyatachi

I don't hate them nor do I feel particularly butthurt about Ayu's records, but I just feel like they're more of a new, separate category of entertainment, rather than actual musicians. And applying musicians' rules to them doesn't really seem to work.

For me, I don't think whether they are actual musicians or not really matter. If that's the barometer then people like Namie et cetera likely wouldn't be on the list. Or for US artists, pretty much about half of them wouldn't be able to count their sales. For me what discounts them is the tactics to artificially inflate their sales numbers. Concert tickets, handshake tickets, millions of versions to buy of the same single etc. etc.

Now, I was living in Tokyo during the boom and they did have some level of general popularity, but outside of their otaku fanbase, it was primarily limited to elementary school aged children. I didn't see them quite have the pervasive fanbase that you find with say, Arashi (every age group in the country across both genders, essentially); but yet AKB is selling over a million every single and Arashi is not. Hmmm wonder why? It couldn't possibly be the insane sales tactics. (sarcasm)

I guess we will see in 15 to 20 years if they still have songs that are mainstream relevant. I could see maybe Heavy Rotation and Koisure Fortune Cookie....but that's about it.

Originally Posted by Andrenekoi

I don't think they had much of a cultural impact either. Manufaturated acts rarely do.

Actually, I would argue in Japan manufactured acts have a significant history of having a large cultural impact: Smap, Arashi, Morning Musume anyone? I just don't know if I think AKB is one of them.

That really kind of illustrates the point though. Can anyone with a straight face say that AKB had a larger impact than SMAP even though the sales might want you to think so? Hell no.

Originally Posted by tokyoxjapanxfan

Morning Musume sold well in an era when many, many acts were selling well. Idols were only one aspect of Japanese music. The charts from the 90s until maybe 2006/7 were filled with various types of music, as well as solo, bands, duos, and idol groups.

Since 2008/9, the highest selling artists each year were Arashi and AKB. And AKB's sister groups as well as JE made up the majority of the remaining top 10.

For people who enjoy a plethora of genres and artists, this is a frustrating situation.

This. I used to love watching all the music specials/end of year shows etc. Now they are a complete bore because it's just the same over and over and over again with very little variety at all.

[Diego-kun]

Originally Posted by SunshineSlayer

Now, I was living in Tokyo during the boom and they did have some level of general popularity, but outside of their otaku fanbase, it was primarily limited to elementary school aged children. I didn't see them quite have the pervasive fanbase that you find with say, Arashi (every age group in the country across both genders, essentially); but yet AKB is selling over a million every single and Arashi is not. Hmmm wonder why? It couldn't possibly be the insane sales tactics. (sarcasm).

Is Arashi that popular among boys? I thought 90% of their fanbase (and other JE's groups) were girls.

[SunshineSlayer]

Originally Posted by Diego-kun

Is Arashi that popular among boys? I thought 90% of their fanbase (and other JE's groups) were girls.

Oh, Arashi is well liked across both genders. The ones primarily buying CDs, concert tickets etc are still majority women (across many age groups) I imagine, because a lot of the public in general just don't buy physical releases anymore unless you are a dedicated fan, but they have a decent fanbase among men too. They figured out the way to grasp all fanbases: women want to date them, grandparents want them to be their grandsons, and men want to go out to the bar after work and hang with them.

SMAP and Arashi are two of the only "boybands" who have managed to just be generally well-liked and supported by men as well as women.

[oaristos]

Originally Posted by Trinu

Sure, that's why this year, after one girl announced she was getting MARRIED, the producer asked her to stay in the group.
That's why Sashihara Rino, after a scandal, ranked 1st in their election FOUR times (three in a row).

Sure, that's why they made one of the girls shave her head and post an apology for spending the night with her boyfriend. It's great someone was ranked #1 after a scandal, but that doesn't erase all the other situations.

Originally Posted by Trinu

Someone could say there must be something lacking in the life of some kids who write thousands of posts in an online forum.

I was going to ignore this because apparently, you got way too offended by my comment (even though it was directed to older Japanese men and not at the rest of their fanbase), but be mindful of your attitude. No one here is attacking—directly or indirectly—other forum members, so don't be the first to do that.

[Andrenekoi]

Originally Posted by SunshineSlayer

Actually, I would argue in Japan manufactured acts have a significant history of having a large cultural impact: Smap, Arashi, Morning Musume anyone? I just don't know if I think AKB is one of them.

That really kind of illustrates the point though. Can anyone with a straight face say that AKB had a larger impact than SMAP even though the sales might want you to think so? Hell no

Actually, yeah, you are right. I still get the feeling a popular manufaturated act will more often vanish without leaving much impact compared to a popular act with a bigger creative freedom.

And there's also popular acts that started manufaturated and that slowly got a personality of their own, like Namie Amuro, Seiko Matsuda, Momoe Yamaguchi, etc.

[Trinu]

Originally Posted by oaristos

Sure, that's why they made one of the girls shave her head and post an apology for spending the night with her boyfriend. It's great someone was ranked #1 after a scandal, but that doesn't erase all the other situations.

They didn't make her. She had a breakdown and did it herself.
Management accepting he video and uploading to their YouTube channel was indeed wrong, but nobody asked her to do anything. She could have just left like many others had before.

[SunshineSlayer]

Originally Posted by Trinu

They didn't make her. She had a breakdown and did it herself.
Management accepting he video and uploading to their YouTube channel was indeed wrong, but nobody asked her to do anything. She could have just left like many others had before.

You actually think this wasn't company backed from the beginning? And even if it hadn't been, them uploading it amounts to the same thing.