[Official Message] Ayu to perform/take part in a-nation stadium fes. in August - Page 6 - Ayumi Hamasaki Sekai
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  #101  
Old 13th August 2015, 10:35 AM
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That pouch is really cute! I would also want one of those tote bags.
The t-shirt is okay.
  #102  
Old 13th August 2015, 11:09 AM
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Not a fan of the design because it looks like hawaian souvenir for tourist or something like that. But at least she tried something else and it's refreshing in a certain way.
However I really like the T-shirt. It's really cool.

And please people, stop to slander someone when you don't know what happened behind the scenes.
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  #103  
Old 13th August 2015, 12:44 PM
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Supposing that these are legit (which I think they are, the person who put it on Twitter said they weren't sure if they were released officially yet), this would be the third time in a year that she has used fan works as inspiration. I do wonder if they talked to any of the parties involved like that Chinese fan who did the Cirque logo or AyuAngel's owner who made that sixxxxxx banner that Ayu used as her Twitter banner for twoish weeks before the covers were revealed.

This all started initially with the A BEST LIVE logo being 'inspired' by a Chinese fan's design and I'm not sure if I like that Ayu's using fan works so easily and frequently lately. I hope that the next release or concert logo (TA or CDL) doesn't end up being fan influenced as well.

Last edited by truehappiness; 13th August 2015 at 12:48 PM.
  #104  
Old 13th August 2015, 12:47 PM
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AyuAngel's owner can answer us since she's a member here! I don't think they asked though, didn't the guy who did the CdM logo say he was surprised when he saw they used his work?
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  #105  
Old 13th August 2015, 12:53 PM
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She did say that she had good intuition on Twitter when she saw the covers revealed, but something tells me that Ayu liked it and had her designer (Takuma Noriage) mock up something similar but 'different' for the actual release.

Here's the banner that was used on AyuAngel's Twitter/Tumblr, later used as Ayu's official Twitter banner:


And then the handwritten (unique letters, all Xs are different) type that was used on sixxxxxx's cover:


I assume they roughly traced over the banner and we got what was used on the cover.

Last edited by truehappiness; 13th August 2015 at 12:57 PM.
  #106  
Old 13th August 2015, 01:10 PM
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I never knew about that banner. No wonder I like the typeface they used for sixxxxxx...HER TEAM DIDN'T EVEN DO IT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoake View Post
Not a fan of the design because it looks like hawaian souvenir for tourist or something like that. But at least she tried something else and it's refreshing in a certain way.
However I really like the T-shirt. It's really cool.

And please people, stop to slander someone when you don't know what happened behind the scenes.
No one is slandering anyone. I'm saying that I have a problem with Ayu making a profit off the creativity of her fans when she has a team of people that are employed to design this stuff for her.

And whether it would hold up in a court of law regarding the fans' initial use of images that technically don't belong to them is irrelevant IMO. This isn't Skyward Sword, and gratitude crystals are not a legal form of currency. For her to use fan art on, for example, tour merchandise means that logo ended up on millions of yen worth of merch over the course of a tour--and the person that designed the entire logo of the tour never saw a dime. The fans didn't consent to that and, from what I remember, were never approached by avex to discuss the official use of their works.
  #107  
Old 13th August 2015, 05:49 PM
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^ I agree.
A part of the popularity of an artist is the devotion of their fans. If fans create fan works and spread them over the internet it means they're doing some kind of free promotion. I mean, fandoms wouldn't be the same and for a lot of people not as half as interesting if they wouldn't be able to share and to discuss fanmade graphics, videos etc. If fans wouldn't create some kind of "hype" themselves within the scene, a lot of people would lose interest really quick.
Therefore it doesn't matter for me if the original photo or whatever belongs to avex trax as a company or not. Fans put a lot of work, time and devotion into creating their fanworks just to show their love for an artist and Ayu shamelessly takes those works and uses them without even asking and makes a lot of money out of it.
I know there where people in the past who were saying we wouldn't know if she maybe paid them. But we have the guy who said that he was surprised and didn't knew.
I find it just plain disrespectful to use fanworks without even crediting them. Even in forums and such creators of fanworks don't want their work shared without crediting them. Most of us have a little sentence in our signatures to give credtit to the one who created our avatar and signature. Ayu didn't even mentioned ones which work or idea it was.
Ayu and avex can use those works as much as they want from a legal point of view, but I think of it as disrespectful nontheless.
  #108  
Old 13th August 2015, 06:20 PM
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I think it's nice that Ayu is paying homages to the creations of her fans and I'm sure she does not even realise that what she is doing could be seen as disrespectful, but I agree with Chibi-Chan. I believe she has good intentions in involving so much fanwork in her recent releases but I do hope the trend will stop, or that they realise that acknowledging the fan who created/helped inspire something is just courtesy.
  #109  
Old 13th August 2015, 07:02 PM
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Idk, I see where it isn't courteous but the extent to which that is a problem is very subjective. But I don't really get some of these expectations. Like what, people want ayu to pay people? I guess.

Ayu and avex probably don't see it as a big deal. And in reality it isn't. They own it. And laws are not solely how you should judge issues, but here I think they're reasonable. Especially because the arts are so complicated. Fanart wouldn't even exist without originals. The owners can edit fanart to fit what they want and it's morally okay IMO. But people have feelings and they can feel however they want about it.

We have our nice internet etiquette. But ayu doesn't need to give money to any fan for coloring a photo or adding some designs to the A logo. It would be the same if she were only making a little money as well. It's the same for authors who literally sue fans for fan fiction. They could afford to let the fans sell the fan fiction they worked hard on, and they appreciate fans making fan fiction because it's free publicity, but they feel entitled to the original work they put out and therefore, any derivative that only exists with that work.

It would be nice for ayu to give credit just based on common manners, but she sure as hell doesn't owe anyone money lol. And most likely, she just isn't even thinking about that as some sort of issue and doesn't view it as rude out of ignorance of that point of view.

Y'all can complain to her though since it's such a problem and she's so disrespectful. It's happened multiple times, so if you feel some type of way about it, now would be a good time. Or complain about how cheap it is. In all seriousness though, if you do think she should maybe consider another viewpoint, you could tell her. It's just nothing to make her seem like a villain over.
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  #110  
Old 13th August 2015, 09:22 PM
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I'm agree with Koumori !


To be honest when I wrote that it was a" good intuition" it was ironical, because I know it isn't really a coincidence haha =D

But it's not a problem, it was pretty exciting!

But I think it would be better to thank the fans who made the fanart for the arena logo or the a-nation goods for example, not necessarily with an official credit, but just a few words, it is not about money just no lie (everyone knows that fan art are the inspiration), everyone would be happy, avex look like a "collaborative" company who care about fans (haha) and the fans would be super proud! (they had been forced to do it for the logo of the A BEST LIVE isn't?)

Well, in real life, I'm graphic designer so you can imagine I'd love to really work for Ayumi but hey! it's already great to know that sometimes Ayumi love my little graphics!
  #111  
Old 13th August 2015, 10:21 PM
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It's not as if the logo was the element that sells the goods. It's the name of Ayumi Hamasaki that make fans buying them. Fans are buying and wearing goods to show to Ayu their support and their love. It would be different if we were talking about a cheap clothes shop that were selling a T-shirt with a pic or a design found on Internet and that this T-shirt was popular. In this case, it would be the design itself that make people buying it and the shop that were really making money off the author.

There are things in this world that are better and more important than money. The interest of Ayu for your work and the happiness that goes along with it, have certainly more value than all the gold in the world.

When Ayu used the fan video made by AHS members in her concert and didn't give credits to them in the DVD or money, nobody cried foul. I wonder why it is creating problems now?
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Last edited by Yoake; 13th August 2015 at 10:58 PM.
  #112  
Old 13th August 2015, 10:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by primavera
Idk, I see where it isn't courteous but the extent to which that is a problem is very subjective. But I don't really get some of these expectations. Like what, people want ayu to pay people? I guess.
There are people on Ayu's team who, on avex's dime, are receiving compensation to design things. And instead of putting out original designs, they're getting paid to...trace over fan made artwork? Yeah, I would say there's cause for concern there. But discussing compensation would be a long way down the road when the reality of the situation isn't really being acknowledged.

Quote:
Ayu and avex probably don't see it as a big deal. And in reality it isn't.
Of course it's a big deal.

Quote:
But ayu doesn't need to give money to any fan for coloring a photo or adding some designs to the A logo.
I'm gonna reiterate my point above about how there are people on her team that get paid to "add some designs to the A logo" and would, rightfully, expect to get paid for it as part of what they do to fulfill their job duties.

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Originally Posted by Linza-mo View Post
To be honest when I wrote that it was a" good intuition" it was ironical, because I know it isn't really a coincidence haha =D
Definitely not a coincidence, lol...especially since it's markedly different from every other typeface she's used for her releases. But thanks for picking a cool font

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Originally Posted by Yoake View Post
It's not as if the logo was the element that sells the goods.
In some cases, of course the logo is the deciding factor. Who would have bought the keychain from this last tour, for example, if they didn't like the logo?

Quote:
It would be different if we were talking about a cheap clothes shop that were selling a T-shirt with a pic or a design found on Internet and that this T-shirt was popular. In this case, it would be the design itself that make people buying it and the shop that were really making money off the author.
It's depressing how often this happens with larger corporations--they steal artwork from lesser known artists, mass produce it, and then act surprised when the artist serves them a cease-and-desist letter or stands up to defend their right to credit and compensation. This entire situation is just another variant that shows how tricky things can get.

Quote:
When Ayu used the fan video made by AHS members in her concert and didn't give credits to them in the DVD or money, nobody cried foul. I wonder why it is creating problems now?
She should have given them credit--it absolutely would have been the right thing to do. But in that particular situation, they called a spade a spade, and everyone knew it was a fanmade video. It's her team taking other people's designs and passing them off as their own that I have a problem with.
  #113  
Old 13th August 2015, 11:03 PM
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The whole situation gives me Beyoncé songwriting vibes.
If they truly copied fan art/were highly inspired by fan art, then the person(s) who made that fan art should be credited at the very least. It's how things should go. We were taught this in school.
  #114  
Old 14th August 2015, 12:47 AM
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I hope everyone who takes issue with this in this thread, buys all their CDs and DVDs and don't pirate any content.
  #115  
Old 14th August 2015, 01:31 AM
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It's just a little off putting to see fan works end up 'official' without being acknowledged as such. Though A BEST LIVE ended up with the *inspired by a fan design* addition when the logo debuted.

I'd like to see credit where it is due if they do take inspiration. I think the issue of content piracy like videos/music is really blurry especially lately with lots of full versions of things available on YouTube or other streaming options and generally doesn't really have much to do with this.

Last edited by truehappiness; 14th August 2015 at 01:41 AM.
  #116  
Old 14th August 2015, 02:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HilaryDuffFanboy View Post
I hope everyone who takes issue with this in this thread, buys all their CDs and DVDs and don't pirate any content.
Yeap... This so much.
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  #117  
Old 14th August 2015, 03:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HilaryDuffFanboy View Post
I hope everyone who takes issue with this in this thread, buys all their CDs and DVDs and don't pirate any content.
This is like comparing apples with bananas.
In one case Ayu and her team took the work another graphic designer made and used it as their own. So Ayu's team gets paid for the work another graphic designer made and Ayu gets lots of money from merchandise.
In the other case people download videos/songs just to watch/listen to them. No one here would claim having composed or sung those songs and sell them as their own to make money out of it.
Stealing intellectual property and downloading piracy are two completely different issues.
  #118  
Old 14th August 2015, 04:13 AM
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AHS probably isn't the place to argue this considering the subforum full of links to DVD rips, album rips and so forth of Ayu's published work.
  #119  
Old 14th August 2015, 04:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chibi-Chan View Post
This is like comparing apples with bananas.
In one case Ayu and her team took the work another graphic designer made and used it as their own. So Ayu's team gets paid for the work another graphic designer made and Ayu gets lots of money from merchandise.
In the other case people download videos/songs just to watch/listen to them. No one here would claim having composed or sung those songs and sell them as their own to make money out of it.
Stealing intellectual property and downloading piracy are two completely different issues.
Both strongly lack integrity and honesty, which is at the core of the issues.
  #120  
Old 14th August 2015, 04:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chibi-Chan View Post
This is like comparing apples with bananas.
In one case Ayu and her team took the work another graphic designer made and used it as their own. So Ayu's team gets paid for the work another graphic designer made and Ayu gets lots of money from merchandise.
In the other case people download videos/songs just to watch/listen to them. No one here would claim having composed or sung those songs and sell them as their own to make money out of it.
Stealing intellectual property and downloading piracy are two completely different issues.
On both cases the artist (or "artist", sorry, I can't call someone who only produces fanart an artist, maybe a "fanartist") aren't getting the money from their work. Ayumi (or any other artist) doesn't work to make you happy, she works for money (even because, producing Ayumi Hamasaki is an expensive task by itself), and when someone relies on piracy to get her releases, she isn't paid by her work. Nor her musicians, her dancers, her producers, her stylists, the guys who construct the stage or even the graphic designers people are claiming to defend here. So, the final outcome of both actions aren pretty much the same.

Also, the fanart people are getting her work, changing it and posting it on the internet for free... So, not only are they messing with someone else's intellectual propoerty (and trust me, painting color on an already taken photo is easier than taking the photo, and producing a temporary logo based on a logo that was already done by professionals is far, far easier than producing the original logo, that is so well made it has been around and totally effective for almost two decades), they are demanding rights over it.

Not to say those people shouldn't produce their own take on her stuff, they can do whatever they want... And I believe a lot of really good artists can come out of this process, by copying and editing someone else's stuff until they are able to do their own thing... But even if I agree some kind of shout out would be the best thing for Ayu to do, it's not like there's anything that could really be protected over here. In the end of the day, the fanart producers are the ones messing it up with her work, not the other way around.
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