Ayu, her problematic relationship with Max and how she is public about it

[MiiSan]

Honestly this is more like a bit of an "off my chest" thread and maybe other fans feel the same, plus I kinda consider a bit of an important subject that deserve its own thread rather than being buried deep in the discord chats and never to be found again.

A bit of context before; in recent years especially I have become super aware of the misogyny that is rampant in the music industry and generally in the celebrity culture (and everywhere else in the world but that's a subject for another time), with Britney's conservatorship being exposed, being sl*t shamed and being extremely criticized in her late teens and early 20s, despite what she was doing was typical of that age, herself describing how she was treated as a villain compared to Justin back in the early 2000s, being Justin again getting off Scott free after the Janet incident then she was blacklisted by the industry, Mariah Carey being looked as "crazy" back in her Glitter era and so.

I am a huge pop fan since those days (I was a kid back then) and always looked up to female pop stars generally, accepting my femininity and my sexual orientation, and hearing how ridden with the exact opposite the industry has seems to be, just breaks my heart and made me really skeptical of how women generally are treated in it. This includes Ayu and avex generally.

Ayu is someone who had a huge impact on me while growing up and finding my identity, probably like a lot of of people here, how she broke the barrier with the Japanese culture by how outspoken she is about stuff like mental health, feminism and LGBT rights in a country that generally frowns upon these things being discussed openly and basically watching her, listening to her music and her lyrics I basically got more and more comfortable in my own skin and being outspoken myself thanks to her and many more celebrities her era and for that I am greatful for her that I got this positive influence. I still love Ayu and follow her releases.

Now to the "off my chest" part, since Ayu revealed that in her early days she was in relationship with the CEO of avex, Max Matsuura, and how she is still very much is close to him to this day, making it really obvious throughout her social media and how she proudly plasters their closeness as recently as the livestream this year and them going out on a drink in a video posted publicly on his channel, I can't lie, all this leaves me a bit of sour taste. Max has a bit of a slimy history and was made kinda evident when back in June 2022 had that livestream where he basically rates the looks of 35+ year old Japanese celebs basically using "old, married and ugly" as an insult and I believe that got traction in articles and media so much that he had to issue a (non) apology.

So it's a little bit conflicting to me personally as a fan that followed Ayu closely since 2006, she sings about empowerment in women, yet, with all of Max's misogynistic comments out in public (and himself still standing by them) I can't help but feel kinda disappointed by her strong public association and how she shows him in a positive light to this day. I feel like if this was in the west or on Twitter, she would get massive backlash just by that, not that it's right to outright cancel someone by the way, you always have to look at things with nuance and rationality, just that my point is that the cancelling would surely happen in this day and age if Ayu was American/international.

On the other side, I do sympathize with Ayu, she most likely herself is a victim of the industry and Max being her boss she probably cannot really say anything, not to mention how much Max helped her to become the celebrity she is today by promoting her constantly and she might know herself that she's in a difficult position with him, especially that she knows him since she was a teenager which can cloud her judgement. I think my issue is just that their closeness is made public by both of them on their respective platforms and can unintentionally show that she has no problem with Max generally being horrible, kinda making Ayu's messages in music pretty null. If they kept their relationship on the down low, it would be fine in my opinion, since they're employees anyway.

Or maybe she is held at gunpoint by buff guards in the avex cell to do exactly these or else. Anything can happen lol


TLDR version: I feel uncomfortable that Ayu is endorsing Max Matsuura publicly despite Max overall being a horrible person.

[Uknow!]

Sometimes it is much easier to criticise a situation from the outside. Being against machismo, being a feminist and conveying those messages in your music is not at all contradictory to being so close to Max.

Why is that? Because she grew up with him and sometimes our brain minimises the bad things about the people we are close to. Especially if we find good things in them too.

It's like when you see a woman being abused and you can identify the problem in a second and you think it will never happen to you, and it ends up happening to you. You get into that relationship and you can't escape.

Obviously the latter is a very extreme comparison, but I think you get my point.

I agree with everything you say, and I'm not justifying Ayu, what I do want to justify is that I think she firmly believes in the progressive ideas she conveys. But from believing something, defending it and transmitting it, to applying it 100% in your daily life is a very big step that requires a lot of effort and personal development.

However, as problematic as Ayu can be at times or even if I don't agree with certain things, you can tell that she is a good person and has a big heart.

Despite her flaws, that sets her apart from the horrible people in the industry.

I hope she stays that way forever.

[_dandy_]

They both mutually made each other very wealthy. You don't bite the hand that feeds you.

Not that this is okay, but if all this guy's done is make a few disparaging comments about other people (I don't know, has he?) then he's a saint compared to other people in the entertainment industry.

You have to pick your battles.

[LOONAppears]

very heavy on the ayu being a victim part. ayu began her relationship with max at a very young age, and there is a large age gap between the two of them. not to mention that he is literally ayu's boss. it's a similar dynamic to that of mariah's and tommy mottola's relationship back in the 90s, and we all know now how that went... i'm not necessarily implying that max was abusive to ayu during their relationship, however i think with all those factors considered its pretty safe to assume that there was definitely a pretty big power imbalance in the relationship. maybe ayu just feels too intimidated by that still to speak out or call out max on any of his wrongdoings.

[Andrenekoi]

Max is one of Ayu's closest friends. Even if he f. it up, she most likely would address that to him in person and we would never know about that.

People are complex, celebrities are way less complex. It's easier to reduce someone you only know through to media to a handful of good or bad traits, but when you actually have a relationship with that person, things aren't that black or white anymore.

If someone important to you did some mildly bad stuff (I mean, he said some shit. As far as mysoginistic behavior goes, that isn't the worst) would you cut ties with they?

About their age gap... Ayu was an adult, and considering Max teached her a lot of what she knew about being a popstar and pushed her to take control of her own career, I think we could say he pretty much empowered her at some level. Public life is awful to women in general, and they don't need to do much to be considered crazy, problematic, histerical, the beauty standarts are pretty narrow.

Besides all that, Ayu pretty much does the opposite the ideal japanese woman should do, there was a point in time it wasn't that great associating with her aswell, and he still stood by her side.

[stepYOU1234]

I imagine if Ayu were a Western pop star, this would have been something she might have been able to talk about any issues more openly. Without her actually saying anything, we can't know if she is protecting Max or if she realises there was something a bit...off in their dynamic when they first met. I also think Japanese culture is a bit further behind with #metoo.

[MiiSan]

Thanks for the responses so far, everyone
Had a bit of anxiety posting this because I didn't want this thread to turn into a flame post but so far we're ok.

Not that this is okay, but if all this guy's done is make a few disparaging comments about other people (I don't know, has he?) then he's a saint compared to other people in the entertainment industry.

Yep, he did: https://www.asianjunkie.com/2022/06/...a-non-apology/
To be honest, it's not really just those comments that tick me off (although generally it's kinda enough to get an idea of a person) but also his general reputation, the rumors about him in the past that turned out to be true and how he kinda presents himself. I haven't really paid attention to them before because I wanted to give the benefit of the doubt since Ayu stood up alongside him for so long (like when she said she would also leave avex if Max resigns in 2010) and the rumors weren't confirmed like in the last couple of years (him dating Ayu when she was young and vulnerable, the comments about older women etc.) and obviously the more I learned about him, the more my red flag radar would kinda go off and wonder how many things happen behind the scenes that we don't know.

[Uknow!]

Men like him are full of pride and entitlement. They joke about all sorts of things without being aware that they are doing anything wrong.
At the same time, this pride comes from their insecurity. Max is an ugly old man who once discovered great artists. Now times are moving on and in the industry, he is neither able to create something as successful as before nor to find a niche. People like him don't want to grow old, they think they are eternally young and it's the opposite, their stale mentality is what makes them older.
That's why they are always criticising and trying to please a specific audience.

The problem is that people like him, there are too many of them, and we all have one or two in our families. In the end, you put up with them, because you have to live with them. Maybe something similar happens to Ayu, except that there will be parts of him that he respects and loves.

Right now I consider Ayu's most problematic relationship to be with Urata Naoya, and I don't quite understand why she supports him.

Considering that she has "punished" other men in the industry like Tetsuya Komuro for their bad behaviour towards women.

[MKAyu]

Originally Posted by Uknow!

Men like him are full of pride and entitlement. They joke about all sorts of things without being aware that they are doing anything wrong.
At the same time, this pride comes from their insecurity. Max is an ugly old man who once discovered great artists. Now times are moving on and in the industry, he is neither able to create something as successful as before nor to find a niche. People like him don't want to grow old, they think they are eternally young and it's the opposite, their stale mentality is what makes them older.

This is how I see him, too. He's derisive of women over a certain age, while being rumored to be the sugar daddy to a 20-year old former-idoru kyaba-jo, as well as continuing to sleep with young artists he pushes (the rumors about him and Anzai Kalen sleeping together might be BS, but he said that he chose her because she reminds him of Ayu and pushes her to be the second Ayu).

He has also stated on his YouTube that "power harassment" is new, and during Ayu's boom he could "pretty much do as he wanted" when no one used to think about that sort of thing.

He and Ayu made each other rich. That gives them freedom. Max uses his on kyaba-jo and cars (another magazine article found his Instagram which was entirely him bragging about the cars and women he buys) and unsuccessful acts. But Ayu runs her career however she likes, supports her mother and children, supports many careers, and is a single mother. I think she is grateful for that based on her actions and affection for Max. Also, she came up during the time that "power harassment" wasn't discussed, too, so she might not think about it much.

I don't think much of Max. But so much of her past is tied into him, I don't blame Ayu for her feelings, and she's clearly moving on with life with the kids and the new music she's made. Max hasn't trapped her in the past he wants to go back to. If he pulls his head out of his butt, maybe he can move forward eventually, too.

[MiiSan]

Originally Posted by Uknow!

Men like him are full of pride and entitlement. They joke about all sorts of things without being aware that they are doing anything wrong.
At the same time, this pride comes from their insecurity. Max is an ugly old man who once discovered great artists. Now times are moving on and in the industry, he is neither able to create something as successful as before nor to find a niche. People like him don't want to grow old, they think they are eternally young and it's the opposite, their stale mentality is what makes them older.
That's why they are always criticising and trying to please a specific audience.

The problem is that people like him, there are too many of them, and we all have one or two in our families. In the end, you put up with them, because you have to live with them. Maybe something similar happens to Ayu, except that there will be parts of him that he respects and loves.

Right now I consider Ayu's most problematic relationship to be with Urata Naoya, and I don't quite understand why she supports him.

Considering that she has "punished" other men in the industry like Tetsuya Komuro for their bad behaviour towards women.

Yeah, unfortunately as long as patriarchy is alive and well, we kinda have to deal with people like that (fortunately I don't have anybody in that close proximity to me, like yes, probably I have acquaintances and distant relatives like this but I need to care for my mental health)

Ayu punished Komuro? Speaking of him, I also find it weird that he just bounced back right away into his career after he announced his retirement after he cheated on Keiko while being hospitalized. Ayu I think only put up a 2001 live of her and Keiko singing A song is born during that cheating thing but I can't remember if she said anything else aside from that.

Urata is another one that i also side eye on 💀 I think he was even charged for assaulting a woman which holy shit. Also noticed how Ayu gets hurt by people in her staff then she just kinda crosses them off in instagram, TA and even BTS videos (like with her old manager recently I believe) but when your friend does harm to anyone but you... yikes.

Again, I still love Ayu and support her music but I sometimes I question her logic

[Uknow!]

Originally Posted by MiiSan

Yeah, unfortunately as long as patriarchy is alive and well, we kinda have to deal with people like that (fortunately I don't have anybody in that close proximity to me, like yes, probably I have acquaintances and distant relatives like this but I need to care for my mental health)

Ayu punished Komuro? Speaking of him, I also find it weird that he just bounced back right away into his career after he announced his retirement after he cheated on Keiko while being hospitalized. Ayu I think only put up a 2001 live of her and Keiko singing A song is born during that cheating thing but I can't remember if she said anything else aside from that.

Urata is another one that i also side eye on 💀 I think he was even charged for assaulting a woman which holy shit. Also noticed how Ayu gets hurt by people in her staff then she just kinda crosses them off in instagram, TA and even BTS videos (like with her old manager recently I believe) but when your friend does harm to anyone but you... yikes.

Again, I still love Ayu and support her music but I sometimes I question her logic

I think that apart from what you have said, Ayu did write something, but the truth is that I don't remember. Anyway, she went back to making music with him.

With what happened in her team, I seem to remember that it was rumored that the man involved cheated on Sifow, and Ayu commented on an instagram post of Sifow supporting her.

What happened in her team seemed to be a pretty serious issue legally, but as far as I know we don't know anything yet. I imagine she considers her team very close people, and is more affected than maybe with people like Max who was important but now not so much.

Regarding Urata, he claimed it was because of alcohol. He may be an alcoholic, and knowing that Ayu seems to have had problems with alcohol in the past, she may over empathize with him.

[brener]

japanese music industry is far worse when it comes to misogyny than most people expects it to be... i believe that ayu, in certain cases, stood silent due to their culture of almost not saying a thing publicly that would put you in a delicate position, we would never know what conversations she had with him off the records.. and even though she could've said something, well, he's max, we all know him, a dumbass old guy, wouldn't expect less..


anyways, i believe that she tries the most to practice what she preaches on her songwritings, but sometimes you just can't fight some battles and that's ok too, and that doesn't make her any less of the strong woman she is, like someone said, there was a time that being associated with her was the last thing someone in the japanese music industry would want to, she endured a lot too just by being herself and now with children and still working as an artist, i don't think it's fair to expect more than what we already get..

if this was in a western country it'd be a totally different story, but it's just old japan being old japan in the end of the day