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  #121  
Old 8th December 2008, 01:16 PM
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masa...!??!?!

so, you mean stanzas 4, 5 and 6 all flow together... I know that, but what is your "though" comparing?

4 and 5 would use "though" if the meaning was that "even though I've known for a long time, I still have painful nights..etc."

If this is the meaning then a "though" would make sense.

but, we thought the "though" that you used could also link 5 to 6, as in: "...I have painful nights, though thinking of you can give my heart the meaning to live...etc."

Which of these two is the way you expect your use of "though" to be interpreted?

or is it another way entirely?
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  #122  
Old 8th December 2008, 01:47 PM
masa masa is offline
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Please read this.

I've known for a long time that you have someone precious
Because it's clear from your smile

Though it's true I spend some nights
Feeling so sad, so sad
And feeling a tightning in my chest
-----------------------------------------------
Then please read this.

Though it's true I spend some nights
Feeling so sad, so sad
And feeling a tightning in my chest

If I just think of you
My heart has the meaning to live
I expect nothing special from you
Can I stay loving you forever
Just like this?
------------------------------------------------
Do you see that either can be read naturally?
It's abnormal of course that "Though" phrase links both the phrases before and after it in common sentences. But this is lyrics. I think it's one of the delicate poetic techniques. And if I remember right, she has already used this technique in several lyrics before.
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  #123  
Old 8th December 2008, 01:55 PM
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Hey all, after our discussions I have made some changes to my preferred translation.

As I said before, it is very important to me that the english follows the song as it is sung, so that the english you are reading matches what Ayu is singing...

I have made a subtitle file (.srt) to try to demonstrate what I mean.

here is the file: http://www.mediafire.com/?kvmtoaz11e5
(if you need help on how to play .srt files visit Love Appears's thread here)

It is timed to the MTV PV version available in these threads:

.avi thread
MPEG2 thread
rm thread

(If the file you have is 5:18 minutes long, the timing should be fine...)

Here is the translation I have decided on: (major differences highlighted)

Quote:
Each word you casually exchange with me
Is a precious treasure to me
But I myself feel a bit embarrassed about this
So if you knew, you would surely laugh at me

I want to see you, I want to see you
I want to at least hear your voice
With nothing to say, I'll give you a call

When you are here, just like that
My heart becomes so warm
My one wish, I have only one,
Yes, in this way, forever,
I want to love you this much, would that be okay?

You have someone precious, I've known for a long time
It's clear from your smile

Painful, painful
Nights when my chest feels so tight
Certainly pass though


I think of you, and just like that
My heart's existence has meaning
I don't expect anything from you
Only, in this way, forever
can I stay as I am, loving you this much, would that be ok?


I want to see you, I want to see you
I want to at least hear your voice
with nothing to say, I'll give you a call

When you are here, just like that
My heart becomes so warm
my one wish, I have only one,
Let me keep loving you this much

I think of you, and just like that
My heart's existence has meaning
I don't expect anything from you
Only, in this way, forever
can I stay as I am, loving you this much, would that be ok?
Please let me know what you think!!!
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Last edited by jon_the_d; 8th December 2008 at 02:12 PM. Reason: .srt file updated to include use of "though"
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  #124  
Old 8th December 2008, 02:05 PM
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hey masa,

sorry I didn't see your new post until after I just posted that^

I understand what you mean now, and would have tried to take it into account before I did that^.

although, where I have used "but", if I used "though" I think it would be very similar...although using "though" would allow the preceding stanza to be modified by it more easily.

I'll edit it to use though...try to update the srt file too.... have you tried it btw?

Thanks for your patience with me!
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  #125  
Old 8th December 2008, 02:54 PM
masa masa is offline
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Excuse me. There are two lines I don't agree in your translation.
1. With nothing to say, I'll give you a call
Denwa shi tari (suru) --- She is not telling about the future but about her dairy habit. So I think "will" is wrong.
2. My heart's existence has meaning
Ikiru imi = The meaning to live / The meaning of life
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  #126  
Old 8th December 2008, 03:11 PM
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masa,

1).
"I'll" does not necessarily imply future action, it also can imply "habit under certain circumstances".

e.g. "Sometimes when I'm tired, I'll just go to sleep."
"Sometimes when I want to hear your voice, even if I haven't got much to say, I'll give you call"

It covers past, present and future, how you behave in that circumstance.

2).
I know this is "meaning to live/meaning of life", but in English saying a heart is alive does not sound right. The person "lives", the person is "alive", not the heart...

so I made the change to existence. people can also talk about their own "reason to exist". here existence and life are mostly interchangeable, except we would not describe a heart as being alive...or having a life...

again, direct translation may not always work, so I go with what makes sense in English.
The way I have it, using existence, is how an english speaker would say the same sentence.

EDIT: On second thoughts, "life" could be used, but it still sounds strange to me...

Thanks for your comments!
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Last edited by jon_the_d; 8th December 2008 at 03:29 PM.
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  #127  
Old 8th December 2008, 03:30 PM
masa masa is offline
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I see. And so, how about this?

I have the meaning to live in my heart
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  #128  
Old 8th December 2008, 03:41 PM
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@maikaru: Thx for your reply, I agree with you then.

As for what modifies what, I don't think that stanza 5 is edited by stanza 4.

What it says now:

I know you're in love with someone else. (stanza 4)
Though it hurts at night, (stanza 5)
I still love you. (chorus)

The though isn't about stanza 4. To do that, it would need to be:

I know that you're in love with someone else.
But though it hurts at night,
I still love you.

I don't think that's what she's saying.

[Edit]

Oh, I just read your suggestion jon, and that seems right as well:

"even though I've known for a long time, I still have painful nights..etc."

But I think if that's what she meant, she would have written it differently and not just keredo all the way at the end.

Quote:
I have the meaning to live in my heart
I think that's a little far fetched.. It doesn't sound like what she wrote in Japanese. @_@

Quote:
Certainly pass though
That sounds reaaalyyy wrong. :S Sorry.~~

Last edited by Melrose; 8th December 2008 at 03:47 PM.
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  #129  
Old 8th December 2008, 04:09 PM
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the sentence about the heart's meaning to live is still giving me problems...I'm still not very happy about it, and still don't know how best to phrase it...

melrose, what's so wrong about "certainly pass though" it follows on from the previous lines...

masa:
here are some more suggestions:

my heart has a meaning to live
my heart has meaning to live
my heart has the meaning to live
my heart has a reason to live
my heart has a reason to be
my heart has a meaning

or any combination of the above....I'm open to suggestions...

right now, I think I'm favouring "My heart has the meaning to live" : P (sorry masa )
but I've been looking at these all day and can't even think in english clearly anymore...

Thanks again for your help and your patience masa!
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  #130  
Old 8th December 2008, 04:20 PM
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^

Well what is the though doing there. It looks really bad~ What is it supposed to be directed at?
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  #131  
Old 8th December 2008, 05:12 PM
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as masa said, it can go both ways....

I've known for a long time, painful nights certainly pass though.

and also

painful nights pass though thinking of you gives my heart meaning to live....
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  #132  
Old 8th December 2008, 05:41 PM
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thanks alot for the sweet lyrics!
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  #133  
Old 8th December 2008, 06:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose View Post
Gosh, the "te-form" is so confusing.

maikaru, maybe do you know a website that explains the "te-form"? I tried to look for info, but it always talks about "te + mo" or "-te" to write "please".

Do I understand it correctly if:

tabete chou = the cake that I eat
chou o taberu = I eat the cake

Right?

If that's true, then..

Wouldn't setsunakute be about mune, the chest?

setsunakute mune = the chest that feels painful?

Lolllll~confused. ><


[Edit] Oh, and another thing~



Does she mean that she feels embarrassed about how every word her loved one says is a precious treasure to her?

If so, wouldn't it be better if "about it" => "that", and "exchange with me" => "speak to me"? 'Cause exchange would indicate that she's saying things to him too. :S

Each word you casually speak to me me
Is such a precious treasure to me
But I myself feel a bit embarrassed about that
So if you knew, you would surely laugh at me

Don't you think?

Uaa.. ahaha so many questions.

the te form of a verb is an incomplete form.
There is no tense, there is no finality to it.
So when you said tabete keiki ~ (what is chou?? ahaha keiki is usually the word for cake.)
Tabete keiki means really nothing. It means "eat, and cake."
If you said, taberu keiki ~ it means the cake I eat, or cake I will eat.
tabeta keiki ~ the cake I ate.
tabeteru keiki ~ the cake I am eating.
etc etc

therefore, setsunakute cannot stand on its own.

setsunakute mune means "the painful, and chest."
You need to have another verb or adjective after setsunakute to make it connect with the sentence.

I could not find any website in english.. ahaha I dont know any of them. Sorry!!



Also, it is grammatically incorrect to say you pass the nights.
The verb for to pass a night, a day, etc, is sugosu.
She doesn't say that she passes them... just that they are there.

Since Japanese doesnt have "the" or "a" it is actually whatever you want to choose for the meaning part.
However, in japanese, the heart certainly can be alive.
Because the heart is what makes the person alive.
So, in the song, she actually does say the heart will have the reason to live.

It's really so hard to actually capture the meaning, because even the cultural differences are present.
The heart part represents a very big cultural difference.
Because kokoro doesnt just mean heart, it means the mind, soul, and your thoughts.
So in reality, she is actually talking about the entire body.
I can't explain it, because I dont know if english has the same concept.

In Japanese, we dont have to use so many words, and can always cut down on words, and preserve meaning.
Did you ever hear of ishindeshin?? 以心伝心?What the heart thinks the mind transmits?
Its the same concept.. we understand completely what she is trying to say because of that theory...
It's really weird concept... ahaha.

Thats why its a little frustrating when we put things into english..
Because everything must be said in english, right??
And the word choice, etc. etc.

I'm sorry if I couldnt help that much!!! ><

Last edited by maikaru; 8th December 2008 at 06:39 PM.
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  #134  
Old 8th December 2008, 09:56 PM
Emperatriz Ayumi Emperatriz Ayumi is offline
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Thanks for the imformation, DAYS is a very nice and beautiful song!!!
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  #135  
Old 8th December 2008, 11:16 PM
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maikaru....

I believe I am very clear about what she says in japanese....the problem is capturing it in english, as you just pointed out.

ok, so she doesn't say pass nights, but in english we wouldn't say "nights are there", so I had to go with the nearest thing that made sense.

same for the heart being alive, I know what she's saying, but you can't just translate it directly if it doesn't work in english. so I went with the closest thing I could find, although I'm still trying to decide on this part.

and as for the "a" or "the" or "_", I can't just pick one, it does matter, maybe there's nothing to go from in the japanese, but which way I phrase it in English can make a big difference to the feel or meaning of the english sentence...and I'm trying to get the one which is closest to the japanese feel and meaning.

actually, english is pretty flexible with leaving out words and information, but if we want to be as close as possible to ayu's original words then we can't be ambiguous....the only time we can is if the original lyrics are...

thanks for your help but I am aware of these points....I'm just trying to make the english preserve the feeling and meaning of the japanese as much as possible while still making sense and preserving order of information...

so, pass nights is still my preferred choice for now, and as for the heart part, I'm still deciding....

In english we also have the idea that the heart is the core of your being, and linked with the soul, although we normally keep heart and mind separate....

anyway, thanks for your help, I'm grateful for your input, think I've just been working on this too much today...my brain is frazzled....I'm gonna go watch some more InuYsaha

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  #136  
Old 9th December 2008, 08:37 PM
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tbh, I think that jon or w/e should keep his preferred translation to himself and just let masa translate the way he wants to and correct him when it comes to spellings and maybe grammar.. but as for the general translation, it should be up to him when it comes to final word.

On that note, tightning isn't a word, I believe, whereas tightening is..
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  #137  
Old 9th December 2008, 10:10 PM
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Yeah, I think people are getting way too technical, petty and perfectionist over it. This thread was created by masa, to post his translation, and for people to help him on setting up minor mistakes. Not to have people saying how they prefer other translations and how they want it to be the way they want it. I think what masa did is already excellent, and just the little bits of details that could be set up, in which the majority have been, are enough. The translation already sounds clear enough, and in my honest opinion, it doesn't matter how the verses are placed the way it's sung. This is the way masa has always been making his translations and it has been working pretty well over the years. I was trying to find a word for setsunakute back there because I was wondering whether we'd be able to come up with a word that would translate it better, but, to be honest, I think masa's explanation was already good to let us know what it means even if there's no substitute word. The other inaccuracies, if there are any still, shouldn't even be an issue. I'm already grateful enough we have someone with the patience and willing to do these translations, and who does a very good job at it. Japanese is a language that flows quite differently from english, and no wonder, some things might get lost in the translation. And masa is very fluent in both languages, japanese and english. His articles shows how much he knows a lot of english, and not just what the average person would know. Minor mistakes can be expected though, because nobody is perfect. That's how it is. If everyone feels like the translation should look better the way they want it, this would never be finished, because then somebody will be dissatisfied because a certain word was used instead of another and how the position of the letters should be different, and it will never have an end
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  #138  
Old 10th December 2008, 08:28 AM
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Sorry guys,

I was just trying to give people an alternative. You might not mind that the verses aren't placed the way it is sung, but I do, and I thought others might to, so I put forward my slightly rearranged version. The meaning has remained the same. Just some parts are phrased differently. Apart from my initial suggestions to masa, I never tried to correct him. I'm always grateful for his efforts and his translations are the ones I myself always look forward to, but when I'm listening and the line I'm reading isn't what she's singing, it ruins it a bit for me, so I thought I'd try to rearrange it a bit to make it match...

If I shouldn't have done this in this thread, or if you think I should keep it to myself completely, then I'm sorry. I treated this thread as more of a discussion than it seems you think it is...and I was grateful for masa's and others' help with explaining certain parts to me so that I was clearer as to the original japanese sentences' meanings.

Sorry masa,thanks once again for your excellent work...and thanks to everyone who helped me understand this song (and some japanese) better.
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  #139  
Old 10th December 2008, 09:39 AM
masa masa is offline
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To: truehappiness

>tightning isn't a word, I believe, whereas tightening is..

My simple mistake. I correct it. Thank you.
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  #140  
Old 10th December 2008, 11:26 AM
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Thanks so much for the translation, it's beautiful! I haven't listened to Days yet - I'm saving myself for my CD's to arrive! I will keep this translation handy when I get it though! <3 We love you masa~
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