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  #21  
Old 25th April 2021, 01:34 AM
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  #22  
Old 25th April 2021, 02:00 AM
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Originally Posted by oaristos View Post
Everyone here is entitled to think whatever they want, as long as they don't make it sound like it's an indisputable fact. It's so incredibly easy to say "I don't like this song very much" instead of "This song is horrible." Language matters.
I expressed my opinion clearly stating "for me", not making it sound like a fact, not trashing the song and I was basically told to leave the forum.
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  #23  
Old 25th April 2021, 02:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Chris85 View Post
I expressed my opinion clearly stating "for me", not making it sound like a fact, not trashing the song and I was basically told to leave the forum.
My post was more "If you're not going to engage with the song on a deeper level than comparing her vocals to older songs constantly, why are you here?" It... was a genuine question. People are commenting on Ayu's new songs and saying she used to be better as if it's a choice she is making despite her literally telling us it isn't. Again, critiquing and comparing isn't the issue, but the tone that is had constantly on this subject is exhausting to engage with, and as I've said before - a forum only works if people actually write their posts in a way that invites conversation.

Should I just make a general critique thread? Is separating people into being able to seek out critique or vent rather than feel like the news thread is the best place for it the best thing to do? Maybe it would stop both sides being so exhausted and feeling forced to talk to each other.
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  #24  
Old 25th April 2021, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by oaristos View Post
I think it's awful to just keep repeating that people should block you if they don't like what you say. That's not really productive and not how forums should work. As already mentioned, it's not about your opinions but how you phrase them.

Everyone here is entitled to think whatever they want, as long as they don't make it sound like it's an indisputable fact. It's so incredibly easy to say "I don't like this song very much" instead of "This song is horrible." Language matters.
I think it’s awful for people to attack and describe others as negative and hateful because they didn’t like something.


And if I had said "This song is perfect", I don't believe I would have been attacked. And I don't think anyone would say how I can state it as a fact that the song is perfect. But because I said it was horrible, then that’s the problem. Anyway, when I express my opinion, I say what I think. For me. Not for the whole fanbase.
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  #25  
Old 25th April 2021, 02:07 PM
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Why you guys always attack everyone who has different opinion? It's always about the personal opinion. It's multicultural community, English is not the native language for everyone. You think you better than me because I can't describe my thoughts the way you do? Ayu doesn't need so disrespectful guardians. I'm so done with this toxic behavior. This place is for everyone, and I believe everyone should feel safe here.
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  #26  
Old 25th April 2021, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Aderianu View Post
Why you guys always attack everyone who has different opinion? It's always about the personal opinion. It's multicultural community, English is not the native language for everyone. You think you better than me because I can't describe my thoughts the way you do? Ayu doesn't need so disrespectful guardians. I'm so done with this toxic behavior. This place is for everyone, and I believe everyone should feel safe here.
Not everyone involved here saying people should be more thoughtful with their wording is a native speaker themselves. People are just trying to communicate about how different posts can affect a community negatively, and maybe people on both sides could stand to take some constructive criticism on that.

I'm not sure how I could have been any more respectful with how I originally brought up my thoughts and this entire conversation just makes me feel the fanbase is really disinterested in what each other say, at least on this subject. I heavily dislike people insinuating my opinions without ever having spoken to me personally.

Since people are deleting their posts left and right, I'll be cleaning up the thread.
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  #27  
Old 25th April 2021, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Aderianu View Post
English is not the native language for everyone.
More often than not, I think that’s the main problem really.

Maybe I should just shut up and let things as they are but ok. I’d just like to add one thing, we should stop taking things so seriously. It’s a forum in which people express their opinion, that’s it. Where’s your sense of humor y’all? I don’t get why people should get so easily offended. The censorship feels real sometimes.
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  #28  
Old 25th April 2021, 04:17 PM
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  #29  
Old 25th April 2021, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Toniayu123 View Post
More often than not, I think that’s the main problem really.

Maybe I should just shut up and let things as they are but ok. I’d just like to add one thing, we should stop taking things so seriously. It’s a forum in which people express their opinion, that’s it. Where’s your sense of humor y’all? I don’t get why people should get so easily offended. The censorship feels real sometimes.
I’ve learned the importance of not having written arguments, but instead talking to people face to face to resolve issues as that’s how you actually see their attitude and gesticulation and most of the time you come to a conclusion that you’ve misjudged them.

I don’t think I’ve personally ever agreed with the member in question and I’ve not based that on their proficiency in English, but rather the fact that we’ve simply always been of the opposite opinions.

In the past I’ve felt really uncomfortable defending ayu on AHS and while the majority of people had issues with what she was releasing and her touring it was the other way around. It’s good things are changing as after all this is supposed to be a community of people who like what she does now...
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  #30  
Old 25th April 2021, 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted by KittyKathy View Post
I think it’s awful for people to attack and describe others as negative and hateful because they didn’t like something.


And if I had said "This song is perfect", I don't believe I would have been attacked. And I don't think anyone would say how I can state it as a fact that the song is perfect. But because I said it was horrible, then that’s the problem. Anyway, when I express my opinion, I say what I think. For me. Not for the whole fanbase.
Not really... I can only talk for myself, but as someone who either likes what she releases or don't care enought to keep on complaining when I dislike something, my experience over here wasn't really the nicest over the years.

I have been accused of several stuff over the years, from silly stuff like "being a troll who wants to sabotage Ayu's career by praising bad stuff she releases" to someone sugesting I may be a pedophile because I tried to start a more nuanced conversation on why she probably wasn't bashing Michael Jackson when Leaving Neverland was released. I even had members constantly posting on threads I opened to discuss the concept behind some of her less liked albums just to repeat we were wasting our times because the release was shit anyway.

I don't come here because it's a healthy community to talk about our appreciation about Ayu, I come here because it's an easy place to get news and there are (very) few members that were actually nice and that I care about.

You guys are blowing this shit totally out of proportion. AHS never been as peaceful as it has been in the past 3 or 4 years. Maybe because we are all getting old lol.
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  #31  
Old 26th April 2021, 03:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Aderianu View Post
Why you guys always attack everyone who has different opinion? It's always about the personal opinion. It's multicultural community, English is not the native language for everyone. You think you better than me because I can't describe my thoughts the way you do? Ayu doesn't need so disrespectful guardians. I'm so done with this toxic behavior. This place is for everyone, and I believe everyone should feel safe here.
hehe I said it before (I think xD) and I'll say it again.

Ayufans can't accept any criticism because they are stucked in ayu's 2001-2006 Era, when there were rainbows and unicorns. They love her on a personal like no other artist but if you disagree (like I have and explained my counterpoints in respectful manner [sometimes I've seen agitated because english is not my first language and it might come across as rude) they turn into really disrespectful ppl.
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  #32  
Old 26th April 2021, 10:44 AM
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Aiming for a positive vibe on this forum isn't the same as censorship. I think you worded it beautifully, Koumori!

Anyway, I wonder if she'll release a new teaser / the whole thing soon, or she's saving it for the new live shows.
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  #33  
Old 26th April 2021, 05:58 PM
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I used to like this forum because i could keep up with Ayu news, but I don't enjoy it anymore because having any opinion other than Ayu is god and everthing she does is gold is shamed upon here. The correct response to someone having an opinion you don't share or agree with is "cool, I don't see it that way. I think something else. Lets agree that all opinions are valid because they are based on individual tastes and experiences." Being her fan doesn't mean blindly liking everything and yes we know how hard she works and we know her potential. Most people on here are working professionals and experts in their of fields and know the difference between constructive criticism and bashing so we don't want to come here to share in a topic most of us can only talk about on here only to get heckled at. Thats just not cool.
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  #34  
Old 26th April 2021, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by ava_dreams View Post
Most people on here are working professionals and experts in their of fields and know the difference between constructive criticism and bashing
My original post was about comments like "so she can't hear how horrible she sounds, or is there no one who wants to tell her that this sounds very bad." My original post also included the phrasing "As an obligatory mention because I know some might take it like this - not liking her work and talking about that is different to not supporting her. You can't force yourself to like a new style of singing or her new work. But I've seen critique and comments that state that without losing the sentiment of appreciating the artist, and I feel that is the key factor."

I completely agree with the spirit of your post and I'm confused how the discussion got to the point where it is simplified to "people are asking only for compliments", when the original post literally ended with a note covering that as well.

Since this is getting more and more engagement though, I'll be moving this discussion to a new thread so people can still discuss it if they want while not burying any fan commentary on 23rd Monster. Me moving this is not saying that critique was originally inappropriate for the news thread, but for this one to make sense, the entire conversation has been moved for ease of understanding.
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  #35  
Old 26th April 2021, 09:05 PM
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I'm someone very critique about everything (like EVERYTHING, including myself). Yet I never say something just for the sake of being negative, throw some hate or undermine others opinions. When I feel something is good I say it. When I feel something is not good... I sometimes try to say it.
I have to say it's been more and more difficult for me to be totally honest in my opinions because each time I know if I do so I will have a lot of posts saying my opinion is trash, I'm not a fan, or simply explaining me I'm wrong. I don't want that and I'm sure everybody doesn't. I even refrain for posting here (I mean in this conversation) because I didn't want to drag it further of make myself appear like a "bad fan" to some. I'm still not sure if it was a good decision. I already erased a post I wrote few days ago to answer to that...
I'm not complaining or focusing on anyone in particular, I'm very happy to be a able to share opinion with you ALL, read different opinions than mine, same and opposite, and I will always be <3.
I just wish people would take negative opinions more lightly. It's quite... tiring to have to defend oneself every time we think something in particular is not good for our own valid reasons, or be called indirectly of various things.
Still I fully agree some negative comments may sound rude to some and should be said more delicately. But let's be quite honest 90% of the time the comments are quite nice here so I don't understand the too frequent debates (unhealthy ones I mean) that follow most of the time when a negative one pop up.
It's a great forum and I wish everyone should be able to talk freely yet respectfully about ayu but also about/to the other members.
One more time I'm not speaking of anyone in particular when I say this (for that particular matter it's very tiring to read indirect attacks about one's opinion, trying to making it more important than it is. It's also not very respectful).
I'm sorry guys... this comment is a bit... all over the place and my English is still... not great haha :,x
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  #36  
Old 26th April 2021, 09:27 PM
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I have to say it's been more and more difficult for me to be totally honest in my opinions because each time I know if I do so I will have a lot of posts saying my opinion is trash, I'm not a fan, or simply explaining me I'm wrong. I don't want that and I'm sure everybody doesn't. I even refrain for posting here (I mean in this conversation) because I didn't want to drag it further of make myself appear like a "bad fan" to some. I'm still not sure if it was a good decision. I already erased a post I wrote few days ago to answer to that...

I just wish people would take negative opinions more lightly. It's quite... tiring to have to defend oneself every time we think something in particular is not good for our own valid reasons, or be called indirectly of various things.
Most of the feedback I get is that fans feel like they don't want to discuss things on AHS because of the level of negativity about her work, especially since TROUBLE. It's surprising to see the number of people saying that they feel the opposite is true. I guess what I'm learning the most here is that people feel generally misunderstood no matter what points they try to make Which is food for thought, at least for me.
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  #37  
Old 26th April 2021, 09:34 PM
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Originally Posted by koumori View Post


Most of the feedback I get is that fans feel like they don't want to discuss things on AHS because of the level of negativity about her work, especially since TROUBLE. It's surprising to see the number of people saying that they feel the opposite is true. I guess what I'm learning the most here is that people feel generally misunderstood no matter what points they try to make Which is food for thought, at least for me.
I understand... I feel that one can feel more legitimate in asking for less negative comments on a fan forum than asking for more freedom to express negative ones. I've myself never complained about that and refrain to do so. Yet I really feel the forum has been quite peaceful recently as opposed to years ago. But it may be me being ok with the way it is.

Last edited by hidekirby; 26th April 2021 at 09:37 PM.
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  #38  
Old 26th April 2021, 09:41 PM
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I understand... I feel that one can feel more legitimate in asking for less negative comments on a fan forum than asking for more freedom to express negative ones. I've myself never complained about that and refrain to do so. Yet I really feel the forum has been quite peaceful recently as opposed to years ago. But it may be me being ok with the way it is.
Just to reiterate, I've been a heavy critic of Ayu myself (as a few members here can attest to) and I'm not against critique at all - originally I posted just about the intensity of certain wording, especially in light of 23rd Monster's lyrical content. I feel ultimately the real issue may be that some members go here to hype up her new and old work and find a place to celebrate Ayu, and others come here for that but also have a place to vent and critique where they can't otherwise.

It might be an idea to have two separate threads for releases to either hype up or critique it, not to split up people exactly (I'm assuming most will use both), but to ensure people excited about a release do not feel drowned out by critique that isn't even meant to be addressed by them, and vice versa. The issue with news threads could be that it forces it all (including news updates) to be in the same place, and some people just have a very specific idea of what they want to use the forum for...

I'm just throwing out ideas, really. I'm open to suggestions generally, even if it's that people feel they should just ignore each other and everything is fine as-is.

This doesn't mean we can perfectly cater to everyone at all, but with a fanbase only growing smaller over time just due to time passing, these sorts of discussions are even more important imo.

Thank you for posting by the way, it does mean something and I did post for input in the first place The drastically different takes have been really insightful.
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  #39  
Old 26th April 2021, 10:27 PM
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Originally Posted by koumori View Post
Just to reiterate, I've been a heavy critic of Ayu myself (as a few members here can attest to) and I'm not against critique at all - originally I posted just about the intensity of certain wording, especially in light of 23rd Monster's lyrical content.
Of course no worries. You've been perfectly clear in your answers : )

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Originally Posted by koumori View Post
It might be an idea to have two separate threads for releases to either hype up or critique it, not to split up people exactly (I'm assuming most will use both), but to ensure people excited about a release do not feel drowned out by critique that isn't even meant to be addressed by them, and vice versa. The issue with news threads could be that it forces it all (including news updates) to be in the same place, and some people just have a very specific idea of what they want to use the forum for...
In my perfect world you would never have to bother about something like that.
As long as everyone is respectful everyone shouldn't have to be upset about one's opinion. I truly understand some may be sensitive and feel there is too much negativity but I wish they would be able to let go and enjoy the forum nonetheless and share with us all. It's what's making a thread interesting (and life in general), sharing different opinions with different people. Splitting everything in two would be much work for you guys and not quite pleasing to read (for me personally).
Once more it's just my opinion on this.

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Thank you for posting by the way, it does mean something and I did post for input in the first place The drastically different takes have been really insightful.
Thank you for moderating and give people with different opinions the space to talk about this particular topic ; )
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  #40  
Old 27th April 2021, 12:36 AM
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I'm still shocked that this conversation comes up so frequently, and honestly, it is exhausting - for everyone. That said, as us old timers can attest, during its heyday, AHS was a minefield. If people feel like they are attacked now (on either side), you have no idea how toxic the fandom was.

All I'd really contribute here is, don't be an ass. And, conversely, don't be so sensitive. Again - this is for people on both sides of these arguments.

There are people who seemingly come into threads to be a seagull - shit on things, and then leave. If that's your goal, then I'm not sure why you are a part of a forum. Don't get defensive if people respond to your complaints and try to debate - that's literally the purpose of a forum. It doesn't mean you have to change your mind or back down, but we should be able to engage in conversation. On the flip side, if someone hates something you love, you can share you opinions, but you don't need to convince them otherwise.

I think we could all benefit from engaging in more open dialogue, and less in trying to push our own opinions at every opportunity. And that's not just AHS, that's a life skill. As mentioned, there are a lot of non-native English speakers on this forum, there are a lot of age groups represented, and a lot of different maturity levels.
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