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  #61  
Old 16th November 2005, 03:39 PM
ph33r ph33r is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chocochii
Another take on this is Mary Magdeline the supposed mother of Jesus Christ.
Mary Magdalene is not Jesus' mother.

And ImpactBreaker is correct, Catholics nor Christians pray for Mary Magdelene. Catholics pray for Virgin Mary.
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  #62  
Old 16th November 2005, 03:57 PM
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too lazt to read all these pages... but I don't see her singing to Mary Magdelene. Like alot of people have said... Catholics pray to Virgni Mary... plus I've heard if you are christian in Japan then you are Catholic... so Ayu could be Catholic... but at least it's more known than Baptist or Methodist, so she could have been educated or researched it in some way since Catholism is easier to come by than some other branches of christianity

chococii- Mary Magdalene is definately not Jesus's mother... now some do speculate that he married Magdaelene and had a child possibly (Davinci code and others) but none of that is proven... and VERY sacreligious to christians... but she is never been said to be his mother
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  #63  
Old 16th November 2005, 04:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazard
Ah, in regard to Ayu's religion. Just becuase she wears a cross, doesn't mean she's Christian. The cross is mostly just a fashion statement. After all, American's wear the Egyptian ahnk and the Tao yin yang, but have little knowledge of the religions they're connected with.

As far as the meaning of 'M'. Well, the letter obviously stands for 'maria' a common Japanese spelling of the name Mary. I, too, believe that Ayu is referring to Mary Magdalene, and not the Virgin Mary. My reasons are basically the same as those already stated.
Exactly what I was going to say! Just because it has religous meaning in the west doesn't mean that Ayu is wearing it for religous purpose.

There could be a reference or allusion towards the story, but since Japanese-English translations are so liberal, and can be interpreted so many ways, it's almost impossible to make an absolute guess. This conversation is sort of like a Japanese person trying to find the hidden meaning behind an American band wearing an Ankh necklace, or a shirt with Buddah on it. We'll never know the truth unless we sit Ayu down and ask her personally.
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  #64  
Old 16th November 2005, 11:44 PM
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You all realize that this thread is over a year old, right?

Anyways, in an old article, Ayumi says the song apparently came about because her producer was like, "Let's write a Christmas song" and they thought about it for a while (even sent out pleas to others to write the music, but in the end Ayumi/CREA was credited for it) So, I think any claims that Ayumi is Catholic or Christian just because of this song are most probably wrong.
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  #65  
Old 16th November 2005, 11:53 PM
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Yeah, the fact she wrote the lyrics M doesn't mean she's christian or catholic. It's kinda like actors acting as a lawyer for example, they aren't one, but they study a bit of how a lawyer works and such in order to do a good acting. The same goes to novel writers, they can talk about things they don't really live in real life, just by reading and researching about it. (of course in the case of producing M, there wasn't really much to study about since the references picked were rather simple and ayu used a lot more of her personal thoughts than religious references).
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  #66  
Old 19th November 2005, 06:45 AM
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ayu is catholic! ^___^
100%! ^^
and why maria? it's because it was shot in the church, she's in a white wedding dress. she has a cross necklace.. there were pigeons! ^^
so it resembles to virgin mary! ^^
and as the song says.. she's like talking to virgin mary and wishing that the guy she loves will meet her in that snowy day! ^^ but he didnt appeared and still ayu keep on waiting and keep on praying to maria. ^__^
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  #67  
Old 19th November 2005, 06:44 PM
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^ Ok, seriously, that doesn't mean anything. It's just imagery for the PV. The first cross necklace Ayumi got was from her stylist and meant as a fashion accessory.

In all the articles I've read with "M" references, Ayumi never mentions anything significant about religious stuff and she never said that the PV was her idea (in fact, she's more likely to mention that her band was in the PV and that's what's so different about it)
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  #68  
Old 20th November 2005, 07:20 AM
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Okay, I have to step in here. This is for everyone knocking the Mary Magdalene theory on the basis that The Da Vinci Code is inaccurate.

Yes, the book is inaccurate on alot of counts. Like that's not Mary in The Last Supper, it's Saint Peter, who was almost always described as VERY effeminate looking.

But the theory is not at all based on anything in that book. I think i was one of the first people to introduce the theory a few years ago (WAY before I ever read the Da Vinci Code, btw), and it ended up being backed up later by an interview somewhere that I haven't read but I've heard about.

I'll tell you why I came up with it here though. Mary of Magdala was Jesus' best friend, and most likely in love with him. I'm not sure it was requited, but she really cared for him. He trusted her VERY deeply, and to the other disciples it often seemed as though he gave her more attention than he gave the rest of them. In the Gospel of Mary of Magdala (yes it exists, I recommend the interpretation by Karen L. King if any of you want to read it), it is written that Jesus came in the night, giving Mary insight into the nature of goodness and sin that he did not give the other disciples (what he said is VERY controversial to Christianity as it is widely taught now). When Mary told this to the other disciples (who asked for any wisdom the Christ may have given Mary, as he loved her more than he loved them), they cast her away. Jesus' intention may have been to pass his teachings down to her, for her to pass down and carry the word. The other disciples, however, took the story for their own and taught it how THEY wanted it taught. The first bible as we know it wasn't written for several hundred years so the details may never be known. But it does seem like Christianity, as taught by Jesus Christ, was intended for Mary to pass down. They call Mary's life "rife with sin", but they also talk about how she was the first to see that Jesus had risen, and the angel spoke to HER directly, telling HER to spread the word.

Mary had to endure so much heartbreak; the true lessons of the man she loved were lost to the pride of jealous friends. Her reputation was tarnished for nearly two thousand years following, the man she cared for most was lost to her forever, and her friends all betrayed her. The resulting heartbreak could translate easily into lyrics like those in "M". Only recently has this story really been accepted by any measurable amount of people so it's worth writing about. Given the controversial nature of the subject, Ayu may have left the "Mary" reference ambiguous. But she is a very feminist person and Mary Magdalene, not the Virgin Mary, is the one who feminists most admire and, I'm sure, pray for. Mary Magdalene was not a prostitute, but a woman considered equal with the other disciples by Christ. Her memory, though, has become so dirtied that it's worth praying for, and it's worth praying for her to be reunited with her love in heaven.
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  #69  
Old 20th November 2005, 09:33 AM
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^Mary Magdalene is way too specific for ayu to know about. A lot of people hardly know who she is. As far as I know catholicism is the religion that pray for saints, I don't think other christian religions pray for saints (might be wrong though). Most of these people pray for Virgin Mary, I'm actually yet to see someone praying for Mary Magdalene, because I've never seem that (I live in the country with the largest ammount of chatolic population in the world). And honestly, if there ate people who pray for Mary Magdalene, they must be a very restricted group compared to the ones who pray for Virgin Mary. Delirium that story you told is long and complex, do you really think ayu knows all that? We are not even sure about what her religion is, much less that she will know about controversial stories of christian religion. I honestly don't think so. I think it was much simpler, she just picked a very well known religious icon and put it in the song to make it sound like a prayer, and it is undeniable that there are far more people who knows who Virgin Mary was than Mary Magdalene, specially those who hardly knows anything about christian religion.

Plus, a lot of japasnese artists have songs for Virgin Mary (i.e LUNA SEA)
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♬♪aijou de nuritsubushite
owaranai Spiral nukedasenai
mazari au mayoi sae irodukete so high
kaeshitakunai
Rise in a spiral yeah
I go insane
Dive to your paradise
(Treat me like a fool)♬♪


Last edited by ImpactBreaker; 20th November 2005 at 03:01 PM.
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  #70  
Old 30th December 2005, 04:34 AM
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also dragon ash made a song named M
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  #71  
Old 30th December 2005, 09:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrono
it's weird, isn't it. i doubt the people are christian.. somehwo they just like maria
I heard that religious Japanese are either Christian or Buddhist.

There's a lot of religious ideology in the song "M" from what you guys have said. The song seems to have been inspired by the story of Mary Magdalene but the PV takes place in a church with Ayumi playing as the Virgin Mary. Maybe the PV portrays both, because there's Ayumi dressed in black right from the beginning, and only in the black outfit is she vocalizing (maybe role-playing as Mary Magdalene) while in contrast she's a silent figure when dressed in the white gown (Virgin Mary).

*shrugs* Just a thought.

Last edited by ShadowMehMeh; 30th December 2005 at 09:56 PM.
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