Sound change between (m)u and Secret...

[nikku76]

I'm pretty sure I've mentioned that I really like Secret before. I think it was actually the first Ayumi album I listened to in whole. I also love some of the songs on GUILTY, though not so much the whole thing. But I can't listen to these two albums as much as (miss)understood. Hell, some times I get agitated mid-song and start to get a headache. Which got me to thinking...

Has anyone here heard of the loudness wars? Record companies have been forcing engineers to compress and boost the volume on albums in the US for years. The UK too actually, come to think of it. They use a process called 'normalizing' which basically brings the quieter sounds up to the same volume as the louder sounds. This causes some higher frequencies like cymbals and stuff to get squished and tends to make rock songs (or any loud music) sound really noisy and hard to distinguish individual instruments. I didn't think this was happening in Japan, because so far I hadn't heard anything to suggest it but... One of the major signs that an album has been compressed and normalized is listening fatigue. I never experience this with any of the songs on (m)u, even the ones I'm not as crazy about. I experience it every time i try to listen through Secret or GUILTY. What this process also does is destroys dynamic range, since it brings everything to the same level. Hence why I can individually hear each of the instruments and sounds in even the noisiest tracks of (m)u (STEP you, for example) but trying to do so with a song like talkin' 2 myself (which I love) or 1 LOVE just makes my head hurt.

So what I'm suggesting is that perhaps the mastering engineers have been doing this with Ayumi's albums since Secret. That doesn't necessarily mean they are doing it to the singles either, since I didn't have that issue with t'2m when the single came out. It might also mean that the people who say they haven't been feeling her music since (m)u and can't quite put their finger on it might not have a problem with the songs so much as how they sound.

Any input?

[ayumisrael]

I think I know what you mean... in most of the japanese songs you don't hear them as louds as english (american/UK) songs like the music eats up the vocals in the japanese songs it's adjusted so it's not as loud as, right (even in CD quality)?

[ImpactBreaker]

What about "is this LOVE?"

I think that song also has everything boosted, doesn't it? and it is from m(u)

[nikku76]

Originally Posted by ImpactBreaker

What about "is this LOVE?"

I think that song also has everything boosted, doesn't it? and it is from m(u)

Aah, I'll have to go listen. That is one track I skip sometimes. Not that I don't like it, just depends on my mood, you know? I think some compression may be used on STEP you as well, just not as bad as the more recent stuff. That would make sense though if they used the mixes from that single and just put them on the album. Oftentimes they will change the mix on an album without calling it an album mix unless it is significantly different, but other times they will just use the same one from the singles. It would make more sense though to mix it louder if it was on an album that is generally loud (like I think may be the case with t'2m). You'd think they would then mix it softer if it was on a more dynamic album but the sad truth is, once it's compressed, you can't really undo it. I mean, if the master mix is the one they do it to then they would have to re-record the whole song to fix it. Problem is, for some reason some people don't seem to think it's a problem. :\

ayumisreal, that's right. It also tends to affect drums/cymbals the worst, making them into some more like rythmic static (which is DEFINITELY the case on some of the newer rock songs).

[Bad Wolf]

I don't have any problem distinguishing sounds or instruments on Secret or GUILTY...

[nikku76]

Originally Posted by InoriNoUta

I don't have any problem distinguishing sounds or instruments on Secret or GUILTY...

Well I'm not saying that is definitely the case. It may be perceptual or depend on what people are listening to it on/through. Someone would really need to visually monitor them and see what the waveform looks like to know for sure, I guess. If it's spiky and all over the place, that's good. If it's practically a solid block, that's very very bad.

Another thing to consider is that (m)u is more of a mix and contains far less hard rock songs than the other two. And as for you not having any difficulty.. well, what can I say? Different people, different ears. Not to mention what I said about how you are listening to it. You might just be blessed with more accurate hearing than me.

[TuNaRoLl1024]

i see what you're saying but i think that sound or "lack of dynamics" fits the rock sound. ayu may be going with the trends if anything but i think this sound is for something different for the sake of being different

ya know? lol

[g~sus~]

Originally Posted by ImpactBreaker

What about "is this LOVE?"

I think that song also has everything boosted, doesn't it? and it is from m(u)

no...i think the mixing is amazingly done cuz i can hear almost everything and doesn't seems to use much balancing..

btw...i love the song "(don't)leave me alone" but the sounds...are super bad quality...mirror just give headaches...marionette not so amazing just normal..
together when, i dono but it's definitely not nicely done..

(M)u seems to have the best music.. cuz yea you can hear almost every details..

secret seems to be a lil low quality as...it gives me headaches..i hate startin's bg music...jus horrible..

i just hope her songs are back on the good quality they used to have...

[ayu-fan]

i don't really get it.. you mean GUILTY's tracks are not as good as other ayu's tracks (in terms of mastering)?

i found that the single tracks are nicely done, but the other such as Marionette, Mirror, the Judgement day, (don't) Leave me alone are terrible.

[Ayumi_lover]

I think that Mirror and Marionette have pefect arrangement, but i think i must download this CDs in APE+CUE and hear to this again much louder than usual

[nikku76]

Originally Posted by ayu-fan

i don't really get it.. you mean GUILTY's tracks are not as good as other ayu's tracks (in terms of mastering)?

i found that the single tracks are nicely done, but the other such as Marionette, Mirror, the Judgement day, (don't) Leave me alone are terrible.

I believe you, sir or ma'am, have hit the nail on the head.

[octocoffee]

I read an article about "normalizing" in Rolling Stone...XD But I have no idea about it in Ayu's stuff. I don't have listening fatigue when I listen to GUILTY, but I do experience it with some American rock I listen to....so I'm not really sure at all.

[catcher_inthelight]

wow this is really interesting. its like u dont notice till somebody points it out ya know??

[~juJu~]

hm, i find i just don't like the production of ayu's songs in general - the sound, the vocal production, i think talkin' 2 myself studio version just sounds a bit bleh but i love the song......

interesting thoughts though. i hope they dont keep doing this to Ayu's music =O

[bondingo]

I never even thought about this until reading your original post. Now, after listening to evolution's chorus, then Marionette's I definitely noticed what you were saying. It's as if all the guitars and other assorted rock instruments are crumbled into one messy sound. It's kind of ear piercing now that I think about it.

[*Petit*]

Originally Posted by nikku76

Well I'm not saying that is definitely the case. It may be perceptual or depend on what people are listening to it on/through. Someone would really need to visually monitor them and see what the waveform looks like to know for sure, I guess. If it's spiky and all over the place, that's good. If it's practically a solid block, that's very very bad.

SO why is it taking everyone so long to figure it out?

[criminal]

Oh my god. I don't know, maybe I'm biased, but I took a listen to fairyland and then 1LOVE [with some nice earphones] and it's just.. UGH! X_X fairyland was so clear, I could distinctively hear each instrument, while 1LOVE.. it was bordering on pure noise. :O And for anyone who doubts me, encoding didn't have anything to do with this. My (miss)understood copy is in 224CBR and Secret is in APS.

[panda87]

m(u) had a more electronical sound compared to secret and guilty. i think ayu's leaning toward acoustic rock now.................... but i might be wrong. someone can prove me wrong :S hehehe....

[truehappiness]

Originally Posted by criminal

Oh my god. I don't know, maybe I'm biased, but I took a listen to fairyland and then 1LOVE [with some nice earphones] and it's just.. UGH! X_X fairyland was so clear, I could distinctively hear each instrument, while 1LOVE.. it was bordering on pure noise. :O And for anyone who doubts me, encoding didn't have anything to do with this. My (miss)understood copy is in 224CBR and Secret is in APS.

I think whoever's mixing is just getting lazy now, as songs like Because of You are just fine :/

[Yukitora]

Is there any reason why american sound engineers started to compress and normalize tracks in the first place?