Translation doubt

[Rebirthia]

I was reading Boys & Girls translation, from wataru and masa, and they are very different. It makes me think... why there are so many differences? which translations do you prefer (I don't refer to this song but in general)

Wataru:

We began to shine. Someone can stop us, right?
We began to flap. Someone had the right to stop them, right?

It's on my lips.
It's in my dreams.
It's a story told by two.
You say you want to be happy.
You've already been so many times.
What do you want?
What's lacking?
Where will you turn?
Even if you ask,
I won't have the answer.

The moment you support me,
don't forget
the promises we exchanged
this summer.

We began to shine. If it's us we'll grasp tomorrow sometime, right?
We began to flap. If it's them then they'll find a shining tomorrow, right?

I was really expecting it.
I was really doubting it.
What was it? Who was it?
They say he's a good person.
He seems like a person I don't care about.

The morning glow is dazzling.
It pierces my eyes.
My breast hurts.
I was a little confused.

masa:

Who can stop us starting to shine?
Who had the right to stop them starting to flap?

I often speak
I often dream
We often talk together
"I want to be happy"
How many times? I don't know
What actually I want
What I'm actually not satisfied with
What I'm actually going toward
You ask me
But I have no answer

At the moment I push you on the back
Please don't forget
The promise for this summer
You made for sure...

We start to shine, and will catch the future some day
They start to flap, and will find the bright future

I'm really expecting
I'm really doubting
Anyone is the same, aren't they?
You say I'm "a good person"
But it sounds like "a person you don't care about"

The morning glow wes dazzling
And made my eyes sting
I felt a pain in my chest
And was perplexed a little

Who can stop us starting to shine?
Who had the right to stop them starting to flap?

[primavera♥]

This is interesting I never noticed this. I always know there is room for different interpretations with translations. Especially lyrics I guess
But these do change the meaning. So I wonder.

[ayumisrael]

When I translate PVs to my lanauge I always use a dictionary to try to use the exact work (that make the right sense) that ayu or the artist use.

They are sometimes different because each translator might sometimes use different words or phrasings or times to make it sound logical or more normal in English I suppose. ^^

[CHE.R.RY]

Wow those translations are very different. They are basically saying two different things...
I think the first translation is a little more coherent, but it would help if I actually understood Japanese and could decide for myself .

[Corybobory]

My Japanese is only basic, so I can't read the original Japanese, but I do know often utterances don't have one to one translations between languages, and often the translator has to interpret the meaning beyond the literal words. That is why computer translators are so poor, and when you watch anime with subtitles you are often left going... what?? Why did they choose to translate it that way???

[ohsixthirty]

this is what has made me feel torn for YEARS now. i really don't know which translations to trust, and i know that usually different translations are pretty similar, but sometimes they are quite different. its hard when you don't know japanese to know who to trust. i think masa's translations tend to be more straight to the point and literal, whereas some other people might embellish more or add a little bit of flourish to things to make them sound better in english.

[MissElin_]

Well it actually sucks to be a translator. Japanese have alot of expressions and words that you can't summarize with the same feeling and meaning in one english word... Or at least that happens very often I think. That's why translators often argue about how to translate it the best...

[mcluva420]

hmm..I kinda get the gist of the translation from looking at the two.. the pronouns are just switched up and stuff are worded differently ^^

[Calico]

I honestly don't think they're that different. I mean, yes, they are, but to me the basically convey the same message. It's hard to translate Japanese into English because Japanese isn't as pronoun heavy as English is. Unless the grammar/vocab is as simple and straight forward as possible, no two translations are going to be overly similar. When I translated a couple Ayu songs for class recently, I used masa's as a reference but they are not the same...but I would say they convey the same meaning.

Some translators are literal. Some are more symbolic. Some are just looking for the exact message (as much as possible) to be brought across. Some are concerned with making the lyrics singable as a cover, which can cause meaning changes. as translators we pretty much have to decide which route we want to take and try to be consistent. (I personally translate "literally" without much regard for syllable matching.)

[emi♡]

^I agree.

I think we've had conversations about them before. If I remember correctly, Masa tends to favor a more literal translation.

It's extremely hard with a language like Japanese, when there are multiple meanings for everything in different contexts and ...it's just a mess translating to a language like English, where, not only do we not have words and expressions for many of the things they do, there are SOO MANY ways to convey a message in English, and all sorts of different prose and rhetoric you can use to do each one.

For example. What if you have some lines in one translation that are actual questions, and in another they are simply statements.

Well you have to ask. Were they actual questions as far as their original sentences in Japanese? Or was she just saying lines, but they had a sense of questioning about them?

How do you translate that feeling into English? Do you use questions even though there may have been none? Or do you simply state what she stated, and risk losing that feeling of inquisition?

It is not easy, and there are so many judgement calls to make.


The best thing to do, is to read many different translations, to derive the basic meaning, and figure out which one you like yourself.

Interpretation can be both very personal and individual this way.


I actually preferred the interpretation of this other person...but I've since forgotten who it was.

[Rebirthia]

Thank you very much for all your contributions. Personally, I have always relied on masa's translations because he knows part of the background, that is to say, he is able to see the the bigger picture in which each Ayu's lyric is inserted.
I don't think lyrics are pieces to be dealt with alone, we should consieder all that has been written before.
Although sometime they are not beautiful gramatically speaking, I stick to them, not adding any flourishing.
I will base on masa's tranlastion but I will modify it a little bit based on the ideas the other gives.
On a side note, it's the only one fictional lyric (not based o her experiences) according to masa, at the time LOVEppears was released. And I don't think ishe has written more of the sort. So, with this one, I'll allow myself a leeway when translating into my own language ^^

[relmy]

I have another version of Boys & Girls

http://www.quartet4.net/?p=262

How did this person get the part about boys and girls? It's the only one I've seen do it, is it the whole translators discretion thing again?

[maikaru]

Originally Posted by relmy

I have another version of Boys & Girls

http://www.quartet4.net/?p=262

How did this person get the part about boys and girls? It's the only one I've seen do it, is it the whole translators discretion thing again?

Because she actually says "boys" and "girls" in the choruses.

輝き出した僕らを誰が止めることなどできるだろう。
羽ばたき出した彼らを誰に止める権利があったのだろう。

The word emphasized in this one says "karera" which means "boys."

輝き出した私たちならいつか明日を掴むだろう
羽ばたき出した彼女たちなら光る明日を見つけるだろう。

And this one says "kanojotachi" which means girls.

Anyways, I think there are many interpretations because the words in Japanese are not quite right in masa, and not quite right in wataru, and not quite right in the other one, simply because Boys & Girls lyrics are extremely vague about who she is talking about, and what she is talking about.

For example, the first verse:

よく口にしている
よく夢に見ている
よく二人語ったりしている。

It says in ENGLISH literally,

"It's often said
It's often dreamed
It's often talked about by two people."

We don't know what that it is, or who is talking about it, because there is no subject.
Of course, if we look at the rest of the song in Japanese, we can understand,
But in english, we cannot because english requires a clearly defined subject to have a clear interpretation, which allows for a lot of creative control over the translation.

Thats why.

[relmy]

^ Thank you!! You're both awesome.

Makes a lot more sense now, especially the part on ambiguities. The part on context definetly explains a lot of the thing that have just made me go "what?" when reading different translations.

[Delirium-Zer0]

maikaru your post is awesome

Japanese is SO different, from its very foundation, that direct translation from Japanese to English is quite literally impossible. There are two different "they"s being used in the lyrics, for example, each with the gender of the "they" built in. But English doesn't have that. Japan is also a context-dependent language - tons of details are left out if they should be understood based on context, but in lyrics context is either lost or deliberately omitted, so translation is impossible into a language like English that NEEDS those details to be grammatically correct.

I find with Japanese song lyrics it's best to read as many translations as possible to get as complete a picture as possible. If you see that something is a variable, then that's when the lyrics are more ambiguous - in those cases, feel free to add your own interpretation as the Japanese audience has needed to do.

[gallowsCalibrator]

When in doubt, I ask my lovely Japanese friends! ^___^ But yeah, it's pretty much what everyone else said: it's all up to interpretation.

[Rebirthia]

maikaru, that was great! And thank you relmy for that link =)
those "they" and "them" ake much sense now, I wonder why I didn't realise that the tilte was boys & girls and those were the subjects!!

So I won't feel guilty if I change some of the masa direct translations when translating into my own language; if I am like "what" I'll check wataru's then ^^