Better than Hikki...

[Uemarasan]

... or Ayu or Namie or whatever Z-grade J-pop artist you've discovered with too much time on your hands. Kidding about the last part!

Okay, so I just wanted to bait people with the title of the thread.

Since people around here can't seem to get enough of the reliable science of comparative J-pop, I thought it would be interesting to make a thread on how you would rank ALL (well, most of) the J-pop artists that you know of. Why invite potential flamings with negatively-inclined Ayu-focused threads in an Ayu forum? The world can be very silly at times.

Here's my list:

For me, Ayu and Hikki are musical equals. Enough said. In my opinion, the Ayu and Hikki debate (or any fan-invented debate between two artists) is boring, futile, stupid, and an utter waste of time. I'd rather spend my time liking both artists.

The only artists I personally find better and more important than Ayu and Hikki are Hibari Misora, Momoe Yamaguchi, Yumi Matsutoya, Southern All Stars, and Boowy.

I think everyone else is at the same level as Ayu and Hikki. Artists like Seiko Matsuda, Akina Nakamori, B'z, Mr. Children, Pizzicato Five, Ringo Shiina, X Japan.

Ringo Shiina would have been better than Ayu and Hikki if she just continued her solo career. Tokyo Jihen was a step down.

Namie Amuro I would rank the same as Glay, L'Arc En Ciel, Globe, Ken Hirai, Dreams Come True, Chage and Aska, Smap, Spitz, Tomoyasu Hotei, and Zard.

Ken Hirai could also potentially be a great J-pop artist. I think the next album will have a lot of say about his musical legacy. Among the newer generation, I think Ai Otsuka has the most potential to be an important artist. Planetarium and Love Cook were real breakthroughs.

I wish Mika Nakashima would return to the musical direction she found with Love.

For all the new Koda Kumi converts who are wondering, I would put her alongside Ami Suzuki and Tomomi Kahala. There are a lot more artists whom I would rank higher: Every Little Thing, Judy and Mary, The Yellow Monkey, The Alfee, Candies, Luna Sea and such.

So, all in all, my list goes:

1. Hibari Misora, Momoe Yamaguchi, SAS, Yuming, Boowy
(these are more artists I respect and appreciate than actually love listening to)
2. Ayu, Hikki, Seiko Matsuda, Akina Nakamori, B'z, Mr. Children, Pizzicato Five, Ringo Shiina, X Japan
(these are the artists I actually like)
3. Namie, Glay, Laruku, Globe, Ken Hirai, Chage and Aska, DCT, Smap, Spitz, Tomoyasu Hotei, Zard
(I generally appreciate most of their stuff)

There are a lot more J-pop artists I haven't heard enough of to include, so sorry about that. Yosui Inoue, Yutaka Ozaki, Miyuki Nakajima, Mariya Takeuchi, to name a few.

[bondingo]

I guess if I were to do a sort of ranking in which all of the J-Pop artists I really adored fit in with certain other artists, it would go something like this (with this order being descending from top):

The Very Top:
Ayu and Shiina Ringo (NOT Tokyo Jihen)

2:
Amuro Namie, Utada Hikaru, BoA, MISIA

3:
Yaida Hitomi, Koda Kumi, Onitsuka Chihiro

[Uemarasan]

Bondingo, you're a kindred soul!

Looking back at my list, I think I was trying too hard to be relatively objective. If I had a subjective list, Ayu and Ringo Shiina would definitely be at the top. If only Hikki didn't release that damn Exodus $#@&, she would have been at the top too. And I probably would have included "smaller" (and more recent) acts like Chihiro Onitsuka, Chitose Hajime, Hitomi Yaida, hitomi, Janne D'Arc, Tsukiko Amano, Cocco, Depapepe, the brilliant green, Gackt, and such. And Every Little Thing would be higher. WAY higher.

Oh Ringo, just quit Tokyo Jihen!

[truehappiness]

Ayu's definitely one that belongs at the top of a list due to all her hard work and dedication to what she does ;D

I think Asuca Hayashi is a hidden jewel that many still need to discover.. She's not for people who are into like, poppy stuff.. actually, I don't know really how to classify her.. :/


(ELT = YES. One of the best trios everrrr, well duo now.)

[ayu_ready?]

I'll put up Ayu + Hikki at the highest level, they both are the best, IMO
then, I'll list up Kumi, who has been growing up since the last 2 years like a BOMB [] + Mika + Namie
3d will be BoA

[JimmyKoria]

Shiina Ringo would have been better than Utada and Hamasaki but she wouldn't have been as successful, especially since she went off and did more of what she wanted to do and less the path of mainstream j-rock/jazz/pop.

Tokyo Jihen wasn't so bad at first, I was really hurt by Adult though. It wasn't that great.

I think Utada is near Shiina Ringo. They both kind of do their own things.
Exodus was a good album. I wouldn't knock it. I mean it's not a Japanese album nor was it intended for the Japanese. She did a great job on it and tried something new. The only thing I regreat about that whole album was the whole "I'm a Japanese girl in America" vibe. Easy Breasy was okay until you got to the Japanesey line.

[hallelujah_united]

Originally Posted by KORiA

Shiina Ringo would have been better than Utada and Hamasaki but she wouldn't have been as successful, especially since she went off and did more of what she wanted to do and less the path of mainstream j-rock/jazz/pop.

Tokyo Jihen wasn't so bad at first, I was really hurt by Adult though. It wasn't that great.

I think Utada is near Shiina Ringo. They both kind of do their own things.
Exodus was a good album. I wouldn't knock it. I mean it's not a Japanese album nor was it intended for the Japanese. She did a great job on it and tried something new. The only thing I regreat about that whole album was the whole "I'm a Japanese girl in America" vibe. Easy Breasy was okay until you got to the Japanesey line.

Well it depends on whether you'll be using sales as a major factor in deciding who's "better". But I'll still be standing on my case that it's waaay too hard to place a "better" tag on anybody who does music. It's a very subjective thing that really depends on the preferences of each individual listener. It's like how you prefer Kyoiku while I actually liked Adult more.

But if we were going to deviate a bit and talk about the importance of each singer, then I guess sales and popularity would definitely come in, along with factors like the type of music and sound they make and how they influenced the music industry, among others. We could then try to figure out who was "better" from there.

Personally though, I'd put Ayu and Hikki at the top because they've been shaping the J-pop scene for as long as I've been listening to it. Ringo would have been there too if she had sustained the levels of commercial success during the days of Shouso Strip. She still contantly pushes the boundaries of J-Music, but no longer with the sales and popularity of 2000.

And on a final note:

Originally Posted by Uemarasan

For me, Ayu and Hikki are musical equals. Enough said. In my opinion, the Ayu and Hikki debate (or any fan-invented debate between two artists) is boring, futile, stupid, and an utter waste of time. I'd rather spend my time liking both artists.

More people need to realise that too. There is no either/or choice involved here.

[JimmyKoria]

Originally Posted by hallelujah_united

Well it depends on whether you'll be using sales as a major factor in deciding who's "better". But I'll still be standing on my case that it's waaay too hard to place a "better" tag on anybody who does music. It's a very subjective thing that really depends on the preferences of each individual listener. It's like how you prefer Kyoiku while I actually liked Adult more.


More people need to realise that too. There is no either/or choice involved here.

I agree, sorry if I came off as "MY OPINION ME ME ME."

I never really gave Adult a chance though. And when you get into Ringo you have to give things a chance. Adults slowly growing on me, I go back and watch the videos for the singles and the lives.

[hallelujah_united]

Originally Posted by KORiA

I agree, sorry if I came off as "MY OPINION ME ME ME."

I never really gave Adult a chance though. And when you get into Ringo you have to give things a chance. Adults slowly growing on me, I go back and watch the videos for the singles and the lives.

I was just looking at your post too much while typing a general reply.

[Kodayumi]

1st would be ayu
2nd---koda Kumi
3rd---BoA

Thats all for my list..short and simple.=P

[Keishi]

I find that most mainstream J-pop has become something generic. I couldn't enjoy Ayu as much as a year ago, where I found her materials are really amazing. But over-appreaciating her leads into a new addition to my music folder, which means, I'm listening to them in more frequency than Ayu.
However, my judgment wasn't merely because of the matter of taste, coz you should have known (or not) that I enjoy Ayumi Hamasaki, Koda Kumi, Utada Hikaru, Mika Nakashima, Namie Amuro, Crystal Kay, Ai Otsuka, BoA, Ashlee Simpson, Nana Kitade, misono, K, MAI, Yuna Ito, hitomi, SOULHEAD, TiA, Angela Aki, Maaya Sakamoto, Ken Hirai, Toshinori Yonekura, m-flo, Shiina Ringo, Diana Krall, Suga Shikao, Bi, Do As Infinity, Nami Tamaki, and the list goes on, but the fact is I enjoy a lot of genres.


For me, on top of everything I think it's, BoA & Shiina Ringo.
I'm not really a fan of BoA, yet I've never show my love to her on my sets, but I'd like to say that her latest albums, like My Name, Girls On Top, and OUTGROW, has been played over and over on my iTunes. And my posts on BoA discussion thread is really countable with fingers. Her music is not what I'd call mainstream (if it is, well prolly because I've not heard enough K-Pop to compare Boa's Korean albums with other K-artist)
I really enjoy MOTO, One Wings, I Got You, My Prayer, I Kiss, My Name, DO THE MOTION, Kimi no Tonari de and when it comes to BoA's music, I've never skip it (unless for Spark. I hate that one song)
Compared to Ayu's BLUE BIRD. Honestly, I've only listened to that song twice. Plus one, if you count video clips. Beautiful Fighters listened two times, song & PV. That's all. Except for Ladies Night ~another night~ that I enjoy as much as the gone-nowhere Ayu Trance.




Yet for Ringo, I enjoy her music is because she can show characteristic in each of her music. I found lots of her songs are unique, instead of being repetitive and mainstream. I've no idea for Tokyo Jihen, but I like Adult album.



Koda Kumi is another great singer and artist. But my love to her music has started to fade. Not because of her over-sexiness, but prolly because she's not 100% enjoying her career right now. At least, not as much as how 1000 Words touched me. But I'd defend her if there any bashing. It's not because I want to participate in the debate, but I won't let a girl that has been giving all of her efforts to be badmouthed. That's cruel, it's like mocking a nerd because her crappy looks.


Bottomline, I'm tired of saying my opinions about my favorite artist, because my fingers have really exhausted making sets and my homework hasn't done yet.

Anyway, to the rankings...
1. Shiina Ringo & Bo.....hmm, lemme think...okay. BoA.
2. Koda Kumi & Utada Hikaru.
4. Namie Amuro and her SUITE CHIC project
5. Clazziquai Project. Their music is somewhat under-rated due to low of promotions.
6. Nakashima Mika. For being brave to cross over another genre and fall down.
7. Ayumi Hamasaki, because I used to love her music.

[ayu_fan929]

Similar to yours, Uemarasan.

01 Matsutoya Yuming, Hibari Misora, Southern All Stars
02 B'z, Mr. Children
03 Ayu, Hikki, Akina, Seiko
04 Namie, Glay, Laruku, Globe, Chage and Aska, DCT, SMAP, Spitz, Zard, ELT, DAI

[Mad_Cactuar]

I'm in love with Ayu again... So..

1. Mika Nakashima - Everything she releases just WOWS me. Nothing daft so far. Her BEST album is like the epitome of proper music.
2. Ayumi Hamasaki/Utada Hikaru/Ai Otsuka - They're all equal in terms of strength, vocally or musically. Ayu's voice is flimsy at times, Utada's is shrill, and Otsuka's is too squeaky sometimes. Musically, they RULE.
3. Koda Kumi/Angela AKi - These two are ptetty good, and Koda will move a rank higher if she keeps on releasing amazing singles like KnT and 4HW.

[etheruraura]

1) Shiina Ringo/Tokyo Jihen and Bonnie Pink

Ringo never ceases to amaze me. I mean, really. I love all three of her solo albums. She has so much creativity and originality, not to mention she's extremely talented with different instruments. I wish I had her composing and arranging skills. Tokyo Jihen is really really great as well, but I wish she'd return to her solo career. I enjoyed "Adult" A LOT, but there was just too much Seiji Kameda in it. I wish she'd return to her solo career.

Bonnie Pink never ceases to amaze me either. She has such a smooth, wonderful, nice voice, combined with her amazing composing skills. She makes each song different, and she can write amazing english lyrics. She's probably one of the most "natural" artists I listen to, there just seems to be something so..real about her. I'm really glad she's picked up recognition again, I love her a lot.

2) Ayumi Hamasaki, Mika Nakashima, Chihiro Onitsuka, hitomi, Tommy February6/Heavenly6, Utada Hikaru, Ayaka Hirahara, Hitomi Yaida, CORE OF SOUL

Each of these artists have their own appeal, and well..I love all of them!

[greggerz189]

1. Hamasaki Ayumi
2. Nakashima Mika
3. Ito Yuna
4. Aki Angela
5. Hirai Ken
6. Matsutoya Yumi
7. Wada Akiko
8. BoA
9. Amuro Namie
10. Utada Hikaru

[davus0]

The brilliant green are way up there... for me perhaps no. 1.... los angeles is huge and winter album is borderline perfect

then a bunch of venerable (globe and ELT) and very venerable (pizz5 and the pillows) groups, and composers ryuichi sakamoto and susumu yokota insofar as what they do could be called pop or pop-inflected

hikki has had some brilliant moments which for me put her categorically above ayu

[Tasked]

Platinum (respected leaders that left/will leave a legacy)
Yuming
Ayumi Hamasaki
Seiko Matsuuda
Gold (everlasting bestsellers, but without the hype and flair)
Utada Hikaru
B'z
Ken Hirai
Silver (No legacy....yet.. but they both have/had hypes)
Koda Kumi
Namie Amuro
Bronze (hypezz.. but I don't think they'll be remembered much)
Kinki Kids
Orange Range
S.A.S
+random boy-band-hypes

This is the list that would seem most logical to me. Koda Kumi is in silver because she is now a hype. If she can drag her influence for a couple of years she might be able to hit gold.

[ayu_fan929]

Originally Posted by Rody

Platinum (respected leaders that left/will leave a legacy)
Yuming
Ayumi Hamasaki
Seiko Matsuuda
Gold (everlasting bestsellers, but without the hype and flair)
Utada Hikaru
B'z
Ken Hirai
Silver (No legacy....yet.. but they both have/had hypes)
Koda Kumi
Namie Amuro
Bronze (hypezz.. but I don't think they'll be remembered much)
Kinki Kids
Orange Range
S.A.S
+random boy-band-hypes

This is the list that would seem most logical to me. Koda Kumi is in silver because she is now a hype. If she can drag her influence for a couple of years she might be able to hit gold.

I know this is opinion and all but here are some points that I had to say:

-SAS has been around since the 70s and they still sell well. They will definitely be remembered imo. And they are definitetly not the boy band groups like SMAP and other Johnny's.

-As for Namie, she was the original 'Jpop Queen', she still has the highest selling female single and she is also the creator of many fashion trends just like Ayu, so I think she does have legacy.

-Hikki, this one could be debatable, but wasn't she one of the 1st to introduce a more r 'n b feel to Jpop? (there might have been J Hip-Hop etc. but I'm talking about Jpop). I think she had hype too...

-B'z they might not have been on every magazine cover, but I think they still had hype in different ways (or I could be wrong)

-I wouldn't call Hirai Ken a 'best seller'. I don't think he has sold 10 million total CDs yet. I would put him more into the silver category.

Again I know this is opinion and all, it's just that I strongly disagree with it.

[andre2907]

Originally Posted by ayu_fan929

I know this is opinion and all but here are some points that I had to say:

-SAS has been around since the 70s and they still sell well. They will definitely be remembered imo. And they are definitetly not the boy band groups like SMAP and other Johnny's.

-As for Namie, she was the original 'Jpop Queen', she still has the highest selling female single and she is also the creator of many fashion trends just like Ayu, so I think she does have legacy.

-Hikki, this one could be debatable, but wasn't she one of the 1st to introduce a more r 'n b feel to Jpop? (there might have been J Hip-Hop etc. but I'm talking about Jpop). I think she had hype too...

-B'z they might not have been on every magazine cover, but I think they still had hype in different ways (or I could be wrong)

-I wouldn't call Hirai Ken a 'best seller'. I don't think he has sold 10 million total CDs yet. I would put him more into the silver category.

Again I know this is opinion and all, it's just that I strongly disagree with it.

I also strongly disagree. I think it's crazy to put Utada Hikaru and B'Z under Ayumi Hamasaki and Seiko Matsuda. Maybe in the same position, but not under, because Utada Hikaru will leave a legacy as big or bigger than Ayu (three of her four studio albums are in the Top 10 bestseller albums of Japan history after all, one in #1).

[andre2907]

Have their places in Jpop history:

Extremely big:
- Yumi Matsutoya
- Southern All Stars
- B'z
- Utada Hikaru
- Ayumi Hamasaki
- Miyuki Nakajima
- Seiko Matsuda
- SMAP
- Tetsuya Komuro
- Dreams Come True
- GLAY
- Mr. Children
- Mr. Children

Silver (not as big but have an important legacy)
- Namie Amuro
- X Japan
- L'arc en Ciel
- Ken Hirai
- Morning Musume (seriously)
- Masaharu Fukuyama
- Misia

Bronze (very important artists)
- Mai Kuraki
- Ringo Shiina
- Kinki Kids
- Akina Nakamori
- globe
- TRF
- Chage and Aska
- BoA (first korean artist to hit it big in Japan)
- ZARD
- Judy & Mary

Only time will tell:
- Koda Kumi