[2007] This really convinced me! Utada is THE best!

[CoriKaru]

Originally Posted by dddaiyamondo

Diana Ross has a crap voice, tbh.

And I'm sure you're not the only one who thinks that. Regardless, she can have a crap voice and still be better than Hilary Duff.

I'm just trying to prove a point in regards to what's going on here. I honestly don't listen to Diana Ross so I don't really care what kind of voice she has. Bash away.

[Tom Punks]

Originally Posted by dddaiyamondo

OK, I can't even understand what you're trying to say But everyone should realize that people's posts here are THEIR opinions. The original poster said it was all in their own opinion, so I don't even understand why people are quoting it.

Yeah, I'm really bad at explaining things. :'( But my point was, you're telling Love Shine "it's his opinion" and that's pretty much was she was saying in the first place, so I don't think you really understood her post either?

I haven't understood anyone's posts for the past like 3 pages

[bondingo]

Originally Posted by CoriKaru

And I'm sure you're not the only one who thinks that. Regardless, she can have a crap voice and still be better than Hilary Duff.

I'm just trying to prove a point in regards to what's going on here. I honestly don't listen to Diana Ross so I don't really care what kind of voice she has. Bash away.

What?! That doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Saying Diana Ross is better than Hilary Duff is an opinion, no matter how you put it.

[[kokoro♥]]

I prefer Ayu's live voice ._.

[ayumisrael]

LOL the funniest thing is to read how someone writes
"Everyone has his opinion but saying X has a better voice than X is ridiculous"

I love contradictions and people that like to make their opinions facts

[CoriKaru]

Originally Posted by bondingo

What?! That doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Saying Diana Ross is better than Hilary Duff is an opinion, no matter how you put it.

No it's not actually and it makes so much sense. Of course we'll just have to agree to disagree because I didn't intend to argue with anyone. You don't have to accept what I said.

[ville]

her voice is gold ;o

[bondingo]

Originally Posted by CoriKaru

No it's not actually and it makes so much sense. Of course we'll just have to agree to disagree because I didn't intend to argue with anyone. You don't have to accept what I said.

No, it really doesn't make sense at all. Maybe it makes sense to you, but I would have to say that your logic is skewed if that's what you think. You claim to know the difference between fact and opinion, but I really don't think that you do. There's no agreeing to disagree because it's an opinion if someone says that someone is better than someone else. Wikipedia's definition of an opinion:

An opinion is a person's ideas and thoughts towards something. It is an assessment, judgment or evaluation of something. An opinion is not a fact, because opinions are either not falsifiable, or the opinion has not been proven or verified. If it later becomes proven or verified, it is no longer an opinion, but a fact.

Diana Ross being "better" than Hilary Duff (better at what exactly?) cannot be proven, therefore it is opinion to say that one is better than the other. If one were to say that Diana Ross sings correctly in a technical sense, but Hilary Duff does not, and that were proven, then saying "Diana Ross is a technically proficient singer and Hilary Duff is not" would be fact.

[CoriKaru]

So you want to play the word game? I see. I figured that. Nah. I'm not for that. Fact is fact. And once again. We'll have to agree to disagree.

[Ayumi27]

Forgetting the definitions of fact and opinion, how on earth Hilary Duff can be better singer than Diana Ross? I mean, I don't like Diana's music, but no one can deny she is superior as a singer than any of those Disney-manufactured so-called "pop-stars"

[sugarbasil]

Originally Posted by bondingo

What?! That doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Saying Diana Ross is better than Hilary Duff is an opinion, no matter how you put it.

I have to completely agree with this and severely disagree with the other statement about Diana Ross and Hilary Duff. Opinion is something that can't be proven and is in the mind of the beholder; fact needs some sort of statistical truth/proof and/or cannot be proven wrong.

You simply CANNOT say something is better than something and claim it as fact. Period. You can argue that all you like, because that statement right there is FACT and not OPINION; and it is so because you can find that exact statements in all sorts of academic books providing much proof. That isn't something to be argued.

IF you want to make it fact, you need to have a word that describes WHAT exactly does WHAT better (and there must be some sort of statistics or proof to back it up). So you can say, "Hilary Duff has a HIGHER VOICE that Diana Ross," or "this is more sugary than this." Saying that something is just "better" than something does not provide sufficient enough information. "Better" is a very broad, general term. You could say, "she is a better singer," but that would have to mean she is more perfect in the majority of ways; BUT "perfect" is a subjective term.

SO. To say that Hilary Duff is better than Diana Ross means that she is more perfect in the majority of all aspects of being a singer compared to Diana. Now, until you can prove that "perfect" has a universal meaning and that every last person in the world would consider the same thing perfect, your argument is invalid.

I would also like to note that the fact that you even had to say, "agree to disagree" means that two people have opposing OPINIONS. To agree is to have one opinion or think one way and to disagree is to think another way and have a different opinion. I would just like to put in here the definition of agree for the hell of it:

to have the same views, emotions

and

to come to one opinion or mind

When discussing opinions people say either "I agree" or "disagree;" discussing facts, either "that's true" or "that's not true." Seeing as everyone so far has either said "I agree" or "I disagree," your statement is an opinion.

Whether or not you feel like debating this is entirely up to you; I just wanted to say this.

I see a lot of people saying that "who is a better singer" can never be proven... is that true? Is someone really going to argue with me if I said "Mariah Carey is a better vocalist than Britney Spears"? I think certain comparisons like this are very much fact!

[Tom Punks]

Originally Posted by dddaiyamondo

I see a lot of people saying that "who is a better singer" can never be proven... is that true? Is someone really going to argue with me if I said "Mariah Carey is a better vocalist than Britney Spears"? I think certain comparisons like this are very much fact!

Yeah, I agree. You can say it's only opinion to a certain extent, but can you really argue something like, "the average first grader is a better vocalist than Mariah Carey?"

[ayumisrael]

Originally Posted by dddaiyamondo

I see a lot of people saying that "who is a better singer" can never be proven... is that true? Is someone really going to argue with me if I said "Mariah Carey is a better vocalist than Britney Spears"? I think certain comparisons like this are very much fact!

Well it's true that Mariah has all of those 7 octaves and is a great technical singer but there are still people who think that britney's voice is better and like it more and it pretty ends the term fact for that.

A fact is something like for example ai otsuka is japanese (unchangeable?).
This is a thing you can't argue since her genes are japanese, thefore she is japanese so it's a fact.
If you say the Mariah Carey's voice is better than her as a fact there will always be the people who feel and think that ai otsuka's voice is better and then the "fact" turns into opinion since that's how they feel and think and the 7 octaves and great technical voice of Mariah can't be proved as better.
The only fact is that she has those 7 octaves and sing technically great and has an awesome voice, but not that it's better than ai's. It's better than ai's in the fact that Mariah has 7 octaves and sing great technically but it doesn't say ai's voice isn't better. As there are people that will think (since they really think) that Mariah's vocals are bad and won't like it and will like ai's and therefore will think that which makes it their opinion.

So X voice better than X can't be proven since there will be always people that will think differently so the much "fact" will fade away into opinion.
People though can't say "I think ai otsuka isn't japanese" because it's a fact she is, she were born to japanese parents and has japanese genes.
That's fact that no one can say anything about it.
It's a fact that Mariah has 7 octaves and great technical singing vocals but it doesn't make her vocals necessarily better than anyone else's.

A bit confusing =P lol.

[Luv ~Venus~]

Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeh...aren't we suppose to be talking about Hikki's vocal ability or whatnot instead of spamming it up with people saying the smae thing over and over about opinions and facts?! Seriously, two pages worth of the same crap. Everyone should be smart enough to know the difference between facts and opinions. No need for people to explain it 10+ times. >_>

[ImpactBreaker]

Originally Posted by Tom Punks

Yeah, I agree. You can say it's only opinion to a certain extent, but can you really argue something like, "the average first grader is a better vocalist than Mariah Carey?"

Better vocalist is not a synonym for best singer. Singing is just not only about how much range of vocals one have, but also how they put that skill to use. It also differs greatly from what kind of genre the person sings. Sometimes just how the voice sounds is enough to make a singer incredibly enjoyable for crowds. There are also singers who don't have those incredibly Mariah range skills but they know how to add very unique elements to their voice/vocals that Mariah doesn't, and make their songs very entertaining. While Mariah has incredible skills with her voice, many of her songs are fillers or boring crap (imo, which makes this an opinion since a die hard mariah fan would probably say she has no fillers or boring crap in her discography), despite she having "amazing vocal skills". Plus, I know people who get irritated by divaish vocals, and prefer rougher vocals. Also, is it me or is there any reason why mariah only stick to slower Rnb/Hip-hop/ and ballad stuff with some upbeat pop tracks? I mean, she'd robably fail to entertain people who love rock or other generes in which rougher and more aggressive ocals are needed. So that parameter in my opinion is entirely subjective.

Enjoying music is subjective. Our auditory systems is directly linked to our limbic system, which is the part of the brain responsible for past experiences, memory and emotions. The way I perceive music is probably a little different from the way you perceive music. That's why there's so much variety in people's tastes over music and musicians and that's why we see some people here saying ayu is the best singer in the world to them while others will thoroughly disagree.

[Luv ~Venus~]

^Why would she go rock or another genre when her fanbase is mostly Urban? If she tried something like that it's prolly a career suicide. =/

[ImpactBreaker]

Originally Posted by Luv ~Venus~

^Why would she go rock or another genre when her fanbase is mostly Urban? If she tried something like that it's prolly a career suicide. =/

That was not the point of my post. I pretty much know why she doesn't try anything else other than what she does.

When people says: Utada is the best japanese singer, that's an opinion, and you can't force it through (I'm going back to the comment that quoted FunStyle's "contradiction"). We'll find many people who can't tolerate her vocals, who thinks she has asthma attacks and pulmonary emphysema while singing or that can't control her vocals well, or that she only sings boring stuff and find her voice irritating, while others will think she has perfect flawless vocals. People react differently to what they hear, not everybody has the same reaction to when they listen to Hikki. Even in paradox, we can see posts here of ppl saying that Hikki portrays no emotion in her vocals while ohers think it's completely different. Also, Hikki isn't an expert in every existing genre of music. She'd probably do bad singing certain genres of songs.

[Luv ~Venus~]

^Oh I'm sorry! XD I was just giving an answer to your question.