[News] 9/24 CDTV Premium live TV appearance

[SunshineSlayer]

Originally Posted by ayumisrael

Am I the only one who think that this whole popularity anxiety is ridiculous?
The woman sell like crazy and still get #1s as far as her popularity is on the "risk".

Oh no doubt, I don't think anyone is denying that. But the day will come when she doesn't get #1 single, just like Guilty didn't get #1 album. Most of the major Utahime didn't start dying out until after the 10 year mark in their careers, Ayu is rare, but not the only one in that regard. I just don't want to see the end sped up even further because of bad vocal performances.

Originally Posted by ayumisrael

Fans or casual listeners, it doesn't seem like they protest against her "awful" singing and they still fill her big arenas and enjoying the shows

Actually they do quite a lot. All over 2 channel and other message boards talk about how bad she is. If you are in Japan and try to ask a casual listener what they think of her, more often than not in my experience they say they don't like her because a) she changed to much from her early days and b) they don't like her voice.

[ayumisrael]

Originally Posted by SunshineSlayer

Oh no doubt, I don't think anyone is denying that. But the day will come when she doesn't get #1 single, just like Guilty didn't get #1 album. Most of the major Utahime didn't start dying out until after the 10 year mark in their careers, Ayu is rare, but not the only one in that regard. I just don't want to see the end sped up even further because of bad vocal performances.



Actually they do quite a lot. All over 2 channel and other message boards talk about how bad she is. If you are in Japan and try to ask a casual listener what they think of her, more often than not in my experience they say they don't like her because a) she changed to much from her early days and b) they don't like her voice.

So how come she fill big arenas every year for over 20/30 dates and even go touring overseas?
With unbareble voice I don't think that it would happen. It's kind of like masochism.

I also didn't say she get #1 with everything, I said that she still get #1s (didn't mean to every release) =P.

[SunshineSlayer]

Originally Posted by ayumisrael

So how come she fill big arenas every year for over 20/30 dates and even go touring overseas?
With unbareble voice I don't think that it would happen. It's kind of like masochism.

Every artist, even those past their prime can still sell out arenas due to a core fan base that stays with them throughout their careers. Many singers that wouldn't be considered popular now, can still sell out the same places Ayumi plays as well. Just like Gackt, even though his sales are way lower than Ayu's can play places like the Tokyo Dome. So even though they are big venues, it's obviously not a big enough number to judge what the entire population of Japan likes or dislikes at the moment. And people more go to Ayu now for the show and not her voice anyways, but still, everyone would like her to be able to sing better if possible I'm sure.

btw, I decided to go look on 2channel for a bit after my last post and actually, we are freaking tame here by comparison! haha. I just read a post where someone said that Ayu was like an Octopus during the CDTV performance. Octopus? wtf? lol

Although some are more even handed and saying things like ALL of Avex artists voices are going bad - GLOBE, ELT, Ayumi.

[ayumisrael]

Well I wouldn't count what people who hate her say about her, even if she would have the best singing in the world they would still say crap about her.

And still, even though people not going mainly for vocal performances it doesn't seem like they hate her vocals because it's a part of the concert.
As I said it's like masochism to go to a concert where to the singer's voice is really bad.
Even fans wouldn't bare it if it would really be bad.
Also decent amount of people from here that were actually at some of the concert dates really complimented positively about her vocal performance (though most were at the first dates).

Also she still can sing at least decently or extremely well.

[SunshineSlayer]

Originally Posted by ayumisrael

Well I wouldn't count what people who hate her say about her, even if she would have the best singing in the world they would still say crap about her.

Well, we don't know if they hate her, this is just a general message board from CDTV. It's not just Ayu though, they spent a lot of time talking about Keiko's nose (Globe) singer and how it must be surgery, blah blah. lol actually someone said "holy crap, Keiko has Michael Jackson's nose now!" So while maybe the opinions are a bit extreme, they are still a better gauge of what the casual audience thinks, rather than just the die hard fans. I wouldn't necessarily trust what a big fan of Ayu's would say about her vocals because usually they don't want to say anything bad about her. Some fans are able to be objective when it comes to this stuff, but most are not. (I myself would always let my love for Ayu cloud my objectivity in the past more than now.^_^)

Originally Posted by ayumisrael

Also decent amount of people from here that were actually at some of the concert dates really complimented positively about her vocal performance (though most were at the first dates).

...and I was one of those people that was actually at the concert. But yeah, it seems her vocals may have been a bit better at the beginning. I remember I said that I actually liked this tour best of the ones I have seen live, but that it was only because it was my favorite set list so far. I remember mentioning that I thought the vocals weren't as good as the vocals of her other lives that I have been to with the exception of a-nation 07 which was the worst.

edit:

I wanted to add this that I found. There are some comments on 2ch that do say they are Ayu fans or at least used to be - so not really Ayu haters that I'm reading from. One comment in particular stood out to me:
"あゆの唄

全然　心に響かない
伝わらない

あゆ

あゆ自体が空っぽなのね "

What he basically says is that "Ayu's songs don't reach my heart and that she is empty inside now, isn't she?" hopefully my translation isn't totally off.

Another similar comment:

"あゆ大好きでめっちゃ憧れたし、あゆはずっとかっこいいんだろう。と思ってた。今はオーラさえ感じない。 あゆが変わってしまったのか、私が変わってしまったのか、もうわからない。" Basically, "I've loved Ayu a long time and have always hoped that she would remain great for a long time. But now I don't even feel that aura at all. I don't not understand anymore whether she has changed or I have changed."

Kinda sad stuff really.

Anyways, I just always think it's interesting to read the Japanese comments and see the difference between here and there. btw, they didn't just bash every artist, they praised the ones that did perform well - I only saw pretty positive comments for Glay, Southern, Porno Graffiti, Aiko, and Mr. Children.

[maikaru]

The japanese message is indeed so sad in the original~
Like a friend who is worried... I get that feeling.
Simply cause he keeps saying Ayu.. not angry, not anything.

I think yeah.. maybe, she needs to make heartfelt songs again.
Like, Mirrorcle World, and most of the Guilty songs...
They are mostly so cold, and angry, and scolding~~

Now that I saw that message... it's so true...
I wanna see her perform simply.. she doesn't need to make up for anything.
after all, after seeing the TA Live, I think it's one of the best.. cause it's so simple.
I hope one day.. she can return to the old ayumi...

uuu I'm sad now. T_T LOL

Edit: Maybe... before, the reason why people liked her... is because... she couldn't find her place...
And so she sang about those kinds of things... and sang real, true, and free songs.
Lately, its that her songs are so cold, and unrelatable.. I feel...
Hopefully, green is the perfect song so we can reconnect... I have no idea.

[SunshineSlayer]

Originally Posted by maikaru

uuu I'm sad now. T_T LOL

Yeah, me too now a little! Why am I reading 2ch? gaaaah. lol

[ayumisrael]

If GUILTY isn't coming from deep in the heart so I don't know what is x_x.
Dark songs and ballads specially are what coming from the heart. It also resembles the dark style from back in the days that she had so I don't know what the people that posted about the CDTV are talking about.
It seems that they are generally really negative anyway and I doubt they reflect the majority.

[Ayumiko]

It's sad...coz I also feel that way. I never thought I would be disappointed in ayu coz I've been a huge fan of hers for a long time. Secret and GUILTY are both good albums but the songs do feel a bit empty compared to her older songs. Like that Japanese comment, I feel her newer songs aren't that heart felt compared to her old songs. I dunno...maybe she's in a completely different phase of her life and she is no longer depressed. I do wish she would go back to being more simple, less glamorous, and spend more time on her songs. I feel 06-08, ayu focuses on her tours and being glamorous too much.

[ayumisrael]

^And GUILTY wasn't depressed...?
GUILTY was anything but glam.

Together When...
untitled ~for her~
GUILTY
talkin' 2 myself
decision
Marionette
MY ALL

Are all heart-felt and has nothing with glam.
The whole album was dedicated to her friend who died.

What is exactly glam or not heart-felt about it?

[zoomzoom]

Originally Posted by Ayumiko

It's sad...coz I also feel that way. I never thought I would be disappointed in ayu coz I've been a huge fan of hers for a long time. Secret and GUILTY are both good albums but the songs do feel a bit empty compared to her older songs. Like that Japanese comment, I feel her newer songs aren't that heart felt compared to her old songs. I dunno...maybe she's in a completely different phase of her life and she is no longer depressed. I do wish she would go back to being more simple, less glamorous, and spend more time on her songs. I feel 06-08, ayu focuses on her tours and being glamorous too much.

I think it's bull to say she's no longer "heart felt". She always said she was gonna be honest with herself, if she's happy she writes happy songs, if she's sad she writes sad songs. Less glamorous? Her tours have been glamorous since the very first ones and you're judging her music on photo shoots.

[Ayumiko]

They may be dark and sad songs but they (except for untitled for her) don't give me a depressed feeling like songs such as HEAVEN, Who..., Hanabi, dearest, etc.

[maikaru]

Originally Posted by ayumisrael

^And GUILTY wasn't depressed...?

There is a difference, I think.
In the beginning, Ayumi didn't know her place, she didn't know who she was.
I think this 10 years were her journey to discover it.
Now she knows it, the journey is over. She has found Hamasaki Ayumi, I believe.
And so, she starts to create a new interesting story, but different and sad things happen on the way, and seem angry.
Guilty was angry and depressed. That's it.
dont leave was the ultimate angry song.. it's so cold and detached.

In a song like A Song Forxx, it was desperate and sad, but people can relate.
In a song like Hanabi, it's a sad, but sort of peaceful and song about acceptance.
Really, "dou shiyou mo nai" in that song, "There's nothing you can do,"
Is really what she was about then... I think.

But now, it's like.. really Diva songs.. "I won't raise the white flag, I won't die, I won't accept these times."
It's really.. scolding.
At least, to me.

It's cold. =\

But yeah, of course 2channeru doesn't represent all japanese thoughts.
They are mostly otaku and those really mean guys on the forum,
Saying outrageous and mean things.

But I guess recently I've been hoping hoping for old Ayumi..
And didn't see the transformation in front of us.

Originally Posted by zoomzoom

I think it's bull to say she's no longer "heart felt". She always said she was gonna be honest with herself, if she's happy she writes happy songs, if she's sad she writes sad songs. Less glamorous? Her tours have been glamorous since the very first ones and you're judging her music on photo shoots.

Her tours were not always glamourous like this.. not over the top.
Having friends who went to watch, I know for a fact..
Now, it's all these theatric, and flying boats, and all these..
But in Dome Tour 2001 , it had the right amount... I think.

I mean, Tour of Secret's vegas kind of style was the evidence to the switch towards theatrics.
But, Countdown 2005 - 2006, so simple stage, but great performance.
And yeah, there is NO song like Heaven or Hanabi or Hanabi II or even rainy day lately.
That.. "there's nothing you can do" kind of feeling.. the real, true kind of sadness. Not angry one.
That was her attraction, maybe?~
And AT-8 costumes... the Hanabi dress is beautiful, but so Divaish.. I can't feel the song in that dress..
I feel it should be just simple.
She's trying hard to make things interesting, when just her herself is enought, at least I believe that.

Of course, there are new fans who really like Ayumi now.
So maybe it's just an evolution of audiences.
But also, her sounds are not so... exciting or experimental... just rock.

Again, I'm gonna keep the faith for green.

[SunshineSlayer]

Originally Posted by ayumisrael

If GUILTY isn't coming from deep in the heart so I don't know what is x_x.
Dark songs and ballads specially are what coming from the heart. It also resembles the dark style from back in the days that she had so I don't know what the people that posted about the CDTV are talking about.
It seems that they are generally really negative anyway and I doubt they reflect the majority.

But I don't know, everytime in Japan that's the feeling I get, that people are feeling more and more disconnected from Ayu. Her lyrics in Guilty as usual are at least good, but I agree that they don't have the raw emotional quality of some of her earlier works - there is indeed a coldness to them imo (as well as the Secret lyrics)(especially if you have a good understanding of the Japanese language) where as her older lyrics although very sad, had a hint of warmth and innocence to them. And forgive me for saying this, because there is no way to know this unless I am in Ayu's head, but at least TO ME lately it seems her songs are written with the feeling that she has to write lyrics that are dark and they are forced out, not that they are coming from an honest place, unlike the feeling that I get from the lyrics on her older albums. (the exception being Untitled for her)

Also this just goes back to her performances now kind of having a bit of a wall between her and the audience. Even the Japanese were mentioning that she should have done one more song so she could have walked down and interacted with the audience some more. (they all mostly seemed to want Seasons, haha)

And yes, 2ch can be a negative places, but at least I could find one to several positive comments for every other artist on the special. Ayu is the only one that had all sad or negative comments....well and Globe too.(poor Keiko and her nose) The closest thing to a positive Ayu comment that I've seen is: "あゆかわいかったと思うけどなぁ～。歌はひどかったけど。
あゆがあえてあの②曲を選んでくれたことがなんかうれしい。" "I thought Ayu was cute, but she sang horrible. Well, at least I'm happy she did two songs."

But while Ayu's Japanese fanbase is shrinking, her foreign base seems to be widening - most likely because Ayu is new to most people in foreign countries and therefore exciting, but in Japan, they've been losing that excitment steadily it seems.

[ayumisrael]

Well A Song for xx itself isn't as depressed as people thought I suppose (after reading her interview about the album).

Most of the songs on A Song for xx were lonliness songs but optimistic.
Just 2-3 were really depressed ones.

Of course wishing for the old ayu to come back is imposibble since a lot of things changed for her and she grew up.

Diva songs? LOL the only diva songs I can think of are might be the summer songs =P.

Also if ayu's base is shrinking and she doesn't get casual listeners how come A COMPLETE sell more than GUILTY (and perhaps more than both A BEST 2). Who are the people who buy it?

[GRACE]

2ch is comparable to the western 4chan, basically a place where people are negative for the heck of it =/... Not really the place you want to go for incredibly uplifting thoughts.

imo, Ayu is one of the few artists where emotion is actually detectable in her studio recordings. Even through GUILTY, her songs feel alive at a level a lot of other artist's songs don't to me.

[Ayumiko]

Originally Posted by zoomzoom

I think it's bull to say she's no longer "heart felt". She always said she was gonna be honest with herself, if she's happy she writes happy songs, if she's sad she writes sad songs. Less glamorous? Her tours have been glamorous since the very first ones and you're judging her music on photo shoots.

AREN'T that heart felt. I never said she no longer is. I don't feel all her tours have been glamorous. To me, My Story was the tour that started to be glamorous or rather grand and I love that tour a lot...but that year, she was able to make (miss) understood album which is one of my fav albums. Ayu used to be able of balance both her music and her tours...so much creativity. 2005 is one of my fav ayu year. Excellent tour and music. 2006- 2008 imo she focuses a bit too much on her tours, and lessor time on new music.

Ayu's fashion also plays a part of her popularity besides her music. The influence she had was huge back then coz her style and fashion was easily able to be copied...simple yet stylish. Now her style is more classy and glamorous. Her outfits are expensive name brand stuff...not a lot of normal ppl can afford them. Her style now is reflecting her status, which feels harder to reach. Utada which also have great influence in the music industry don't give me that feeling.

[GRACE]

Originally Posted by Ayumiko

AREN'T that heart felt. I never said she no longer is. I don't feel all her tours have been glamorous. To me, My Story was the tour that started to be glamorous or rather grand and I love that tour a lot...but that year, she was able to make (miss) understood album which is one of my fav albums. Ayu used to be able of balance both her music and her tours...so much creativity. 2005 is one of my fav ayu year. Excellent tour and music. Now she focuses a bit too much on her tour, lessor new music.

Because touring is where she makes the most money, she doesn't make nearly as much putting out a new CD as she does going on tour. Naturally, that means an artist should put their effort into touring. Avex eats most of the profits from her CDs, I guarantee you.

Also, an artist is happiest when they're performing for their fans, not sitting in a studio with recording people.

[SunshineSlayer]

Originally Posted by ayumisrael

Also if ayu's base is shrinking and she doesn't get casual listeners how come A COMPLETE sell more than GUILTY (and perhaps more than both A BEST 2). Who are the people who buy it?

The casual listeners who are longing to hear Ayu's old songs.

Originally Posted by GRACE

2ch is comparable to the western 4chan, basically a place where people are negative for the heck of it =/... Not really the place you want to go for incredibly uplifting thoughts.

As I mentioned, the only comments I posted were the ones from non haters. If you want I could post the hater comments too and then people could get really depressed. But, as I said, every other artist had positive comments - this isn't a case of 2channel is just a trash can where everything is negative.

[ayumisrael]

Originally Posted by SunshineSlayer

The casual listeners who are longing to hear Ayu's old songs.

They already had A BEST and A BEST 2 for that.