Ayumi Hamasaki is the xxxxx of Japan

[Ayusan]

I have to say that I agree to say Ayumi is the xxxxx of Japan is very disrespectful. Seriously, reading the spoiler I got a load of names in my mind and so what ?! It's just so random, a lot of women are in Ayu case, some have been lucky, some less and worked different way and still, so what ?!

Seriously, Ayumi worked as much than other, if not more. If Ayu was just a pop star she would wait at her house under a cover that all work come to her, already done, and don't even write a single lyrics nor whatever. I despise pop artist for the most but respect Ayumi because she works hard, compose and write ALL of her lyrics. She is quite honest and true, I hate her Diva image she can have, I laugh at her none fashion sense, I wish she could be less all sparkly but I accept it because she has many good things in her.

I don't even see how she could be compared to someone else but I forgot that on earth it looks to be a common thing. Ayumi is Ayumi, nothing more. She is there today by her works, not because she showed her ass in magazines or dunno what. And I respect her for this. I'm not used to take her side, she often hit my nerves and I was used to also despise her many years ago but I think it's quite random to compare her to a specific singer because I could say Mylene Farmer is the same than Ayumi, Mylene got trauma, blabla, she made herself alone, she ... so yeah very random imo. And quite insulting for Ayu.

Well that's my own opinion, I don't want to fight >.>

[Andrenekoi]

Well, I don't mind comparing artists in order to make someone that doesn't know them understand how they work or how much impact they had

[Delirium-Zer0]

Alot of different artists could fit into that description, definitely.... one of the reasons I went with Tori Amos is just cuz she's SO the polar opposite of Ayu in so many ways.... something like "Gwen Stefani" or "Alanis Morissette" or "Madonna" or "Lady Gaga" wouldn't have been nearly as shocking or surprising for people to read at the end, since they're all much more pop-radio friendly.

But yeah, people doing the "so and so" comparison thing really bothers me. It's a fun game to play with your friends, but really, there's no way to do that to someone who's new to jpop. If someone into jpop told me "Ayu is the britney spears of japan," that would have been an instant turn-off because I don't asssociate her with great music, great shows, etc.... personally, I associate her with complete and total dysfunction. She's a crazy person to me, not a successful entertainer. So you really have to be careful making comparisons like that, because you don't know the exact thoughts of whoever you're talking to regarding that comparison.

Likewise, some people might be offended by a Tori Amos comparison. They might think "Tori's insane and her lyrics are confusing and no one cares about her at all! She sells like five copies of each album!" or something.

You also have to think about what your friend is looking for in a j-artist - are they looking for a certain style of music, a certain type of voice, a certain prominent instrument, a certain style of concerts & videos? Or are they looking for someone who's as popular as their favorite western artists, someone who's made a cultural impact, someone who works a certain way?

It's not like Japan says "let's make a japanese version of so-and-so" for every artist they sign; if they did, these comparisons would be easier. But these artists ARE their own people, they're all gonna do things differently.

During the shoot for the B'z "It's Showtime" PV, one of the extras was saying "I heard this band is kinda like the Japanese Bon Jovi" and I just felt like smacking something. x_X!!

[Andrenekoi]

When u say that some artist works on a certain way, u are talking about his/her work! The way Ayu performs, the themes of her lyrics, the sound of her music... all of that are part of the way she works... And, if u like the way she works and some artists works like her, there is a chance that u r going to like them too... I don't see any problem here...

Of course, knowing how/to who/ on what context comparing helps a lot... If u hate Britney and Ayu is "the britney of japan", u r going to hate her... this specific comparation made me dislike her without really knowing her at first...


But, if u r trying to explain to someone how big is ayu's impact over Japan and compare her to... Madonna. Or how popular she was at the 00s and compare her to Britney, I just can't see how would it be disrespectful... cuz u r only using an easier example for most western people to explain something totally out of their daily context...

[yazoo123]

I don’t listen to Tori’s songs very much and Tori is far less well known and popular in my living place. Following is just my some trivial views mainly based on what I’ve seen from Ayumi’s aspect and I would not deny Tori may have the same w/ Ayu as well.

First of all, being the top (I mean “really” top”) would be determined by many many elements besides the artist’s self ability. Take a general example of personal sports arena, why Tiger Woods and Roger Federer is so successful and popular?? They would equally face the stiff competition day by day in their professional circle, since every single player could have the chance to win the tournament with their own skills and techniques. And it comes down to the quality of “self” psychological state/behaviour. Actually it applies to most of the businesses and entertainment business is sure of no exception with this element.

Ayu is a very determined and self-conscious person. She knows herself very very well, from inside to outside and we may sometimes wonder if she could split her soul out to look at herself to write those songs and do those performance, just like in “Fly high” PV.
We’ve also seen her determination in her early career saying like “I will do my best this time so that I would not regret anymore in the future”, kind of “no turning back”, or “being dead before survive once again” in Chinese slang saying.

Secondly, it comes down to “Calculation”, actually I think Ayu could earn a PhD in Pure Maths if she studied lol. Ayu knows exactly what the audience need and what the public want. Some trivial examples like “choosing an outfit (down to color details) to perform is much more difficult than singing a song”, “wearing a “butterfly ring” would not be a bad idea”, image design during the ayu-mi-x II era, something like that u name it.

Moreover, in Chinese we have a phrase: “Timing, Place, People” for “to be successful” in doing something. I do believe Ayu’s debut appearance do fit into the “Timing and Place” of this phrase although I don’t live in Japan. If you are talking about “People”, Chinese also have a informal saying if the artist has the “invisible binding force to audience” or not to be successful, in Chinese term called “Yuanfen” (you could visit wiki for detailed explanation of this word). And I think Ayu has a lot “Yuan” with her audience.

Of course, “being the top” is difficult but “maintain to be the top” is even more difficult and it is what Ayu is facing in recent years.

Anyway, there are thousands of “Tori Amos” in this world surviving and struggling (if saying impolitely), but who cares provided that you do love the artist, just keep on listen to her and support her.

BTW, the bottom line is, as Ayu writes recently in her blog (as you remember): “I wouldn’t compare myself with any others, because the one must have “something” that I don’t have, and I do have “something” that others do not have”. As a fan of Ayu, I would keep this belief onwards and it makes me feel more comfortable in future.

p.s. apologize for such long writing, if you keep reading to this end, and it seems not exactly fit the topic, anyway...

[gallowsCalibrator]

Very interesting read! I've never heard of Tori Amos, though, so I'm sorry I can't really say anything about it...

[Lady_Eowyn]

Thanks for the topic Delirium. I'm gonna investigate more about Tori, and then come back and add my point of view. (and may be something interesting to add to the discussion )

[ccsharumun]

I just want to clarify something that may have been confusing in my first post.

I don't mind making comparisons between artists, and I understand that it's useful to explain to people who nothing about them sometimes. But I think there is a difference between, "Ayumi Hamasaki is the Britney Spears of Japan" and "Ayumi Hamasaki is famous in Japan like Britney Spears is famous in the U.S."

There's a difference between equivocating people and comparing something they have in common. I don't mind the latter, but the former I find disrespectful for reasons that I mentioned before, among others.

[rian_hamasaki]

Tori Amos... really??

[AyUta]

interesting. i think ayu is a lot like....maybe say, beyonce? beyonce seems like a very nice person, just like ayu.

[Delirium-Zer0]

See? So it's like... Ayu has the lyrical fame and fan affection of a Tori Amos, the lasting cultural impact of a Madonna, the kindness of a Beyonce, the stylishness and artistry of a Lady Gaga, the control and workaholism of a Michael Jackson...

But the Ayu-ish-ness of an Ayumi Hamasaki, right? lol...

I am really loving this thread.

rian: Yeah XD I could have just as easily made it a cleverly-worded description of Madonna or someone, but for one thing, I don't know Madonna's life story or work well enough, and for another, I really wanted this person to be the LAST person anyone would think of when they thought "western version of ayu."

[C+R+E+AYUMI]

FOR certain aspects, Ayu did better than Madonna did.

You know 50million CDs sold are OMG, i cannot really figure it out.
But she did it worldwide. She sold her music in every single country of the world and she is famous really everywhere.
But if you compare this to the 15millions sold by Ayu just in Asia (ok, many of us are an example that she sells not only in Asia but in most of our countries we cannot go to the CD shop and buy her releases!) it's really a huge amount.
Don't you think so? If Madonna could sell just in USA plus more nearest countries, her sales wouldn't have been so high.

Ayu in japan and overall in asia with this 15 million sales became a model of popsinger, lyric writing, showgirl, manager, fashion leader, makeup queen, lifestyle, behaviour and i really cannot write everything she became a model of.

Sorry Deli, my post isn't that intelligent as the others are but i tried XD

[Crystal_Ageha]

^ She sold plenty more than 50 million when you count worldwide. Not only that, but Madonna has been around wayyy longer. (Not trying to put down Madonna. I respect. *nod* Just sayin'.)

[Andrenekoi]

Originally Posted by C+R+E+AYUMI

FOR certain aspects, Ayu did better than Madonna did.

You know 50million CDs sold are OMG, i cannot really figure it out.
But she did it worldwide. She sold her music in every single country of the world and she is famous really everywhere.
But if you compare this to the 15millions sold by Ayu just in Asia (ok, many of us are an example that she sells not only in Asia but in most of our countries we cannot go to the CD shop and buy her releases!) it's really a huge amount.
Don't you think so? If Madonna could sell just in USA plus more nearest countries, her sales wouldn't have been so high.

Ayu in japan and overall in asia with this 15 million sales became a model of popsinger, lyric writing, showgirl, manager, fashion leader, makeup queen, lifestyle, behaviour and i really cannot write everything she became a model of.

Sorry Deli, my post isn't that intelligent as the others are but i tried XD

Ayu has 50~60 million copies sold
and Madonna has 200~300million copies sold

and still, even if Madge's career is longer and she is famous on more countries, Ayu releases at least 1 album every year and is active on the only contry of the world where singles still have good sales...


Madge: 25 albums, 12 dvds/vhs and 87 singles
Ayu: 35 albums, 28 dvd/vhs and 47 singles

Ayu released a lot more...

[yazoo123]

Sales figures again???!!!??? lol

ok, let us put it in this way.
We've around 500 mil. to 1.8 bil. people,worldwide, speak english (1st + 2nd lang.) and in Japan they've 130 mil. population, and we could uplift 50% to make it 200 mil., worldwide (it would be already over over estimate). (source: wiki)

So Madonna Sales: 300 mil. sold out of 500 mil. (1st lang.) people => (60%)
300 mil. sold out of vs. 1.8 bil. people => (16.67%)
while Ayu Sales: 60 mil. sold out of 130 mil. (1st lang) people => 46%
60 mil. sold out of 200 mil. people => (30%)

it would be a trivial and rough comparison, just an idea of proportion-wise. So my "very personal" conclusion is Ayu's sales is proportion-wise similar to Madonna's Sales.

BTW, I'm used to be a Madonna fan long long time ago as well, though not addicted as what I'm obsessed to Ayu. And I think they're both in win-win situation.

Sorry for out of topics discussion.

[Bigtop]

That's sort of interesting - I have never heard of that. But does anyone have any pictures that you may have found over the Internet? I'm quite interested to see, because I have never heard about this artist...

[Yumsushi]

Originally Posted by Delirium-Zer0

Keeping it with western artists, both Lady Gaga and Tori could write their own songs & play piano, why is Tori off in the background but Lady Gaga is the queen of top 40 radio right now? It coulda gone either way for both of them, really.

Originally Posted by Andrenekoi

Gaga's goal is to release mainstream music, and the same goes for ayu... it doesn't matter how personal they can go with their music, it still is mainstream and pop enough to have massive airplay. The good aspect of being an artist like Tori is that you can really release the most original and personal music u r able to, but you will need to sacrifice a wider audience in order to do so...

Interesting comparisons. Tori Amos is very talented indeed, but I find her music much harder to decipher than most. Ayumi's intent seems more clear.
I don't think that Ayumi's aim is only to have mainstream music. I find it so interesting that Alterna was on the Fairyland single. Was ourselves a mainstream song? Mirrorcle world? I think she experiments when she can. But yes, Tori Amos' music is very unique and is a class of its own, thus the very devoted fanbase.
Lady Gaga? I though we were talking about established artists who have more than 1 album and have a larger vocabulary than (insert word of choice) stick.

[zyoeru]

I also think that Lady Gaga shouldn't be compared. She hasn't even released a proper sophomore album, she's kinda just riding on the tailcoat of The Fame.

[Andrenekoi]

Originally Posted by Yumsushi

Interesting comparisons. Tori Amos is very talented indeed, but I find her music much harder to decipher than most. Ayumi's intent seems more clear.
I don't think that Ayumi's aim is only to have mainstream music. I find it so interesting that Alterna was on the Fairyland single. Was ourselves a mainstream song? Mirrorcle world? I think she experiments when she can. But yes, Tori Amos' music is very unique and is a class of its own, thus the very devoted fanbase.
Lady Gaga? I though we were talking about established artists who have more than 1 album and have a larger vocabulary than (insert word of choice) stick.

I just used Gaga as an example cuz she was cited before
And still, even if Ayu try new stuff, she still has very safe releases, like her summer and winter ones...

alterna for example isn't all that mainstream (still, it's not that alternative), but when she was promoting the single, she promoted only fairyland, that is a very safe track

[Yumsushi]

Originally Posted by Andrenekoi

And still, even if Ayu try new stuff, she still has very safe releases, like her summer and winter ones...
alterna for example isn't all that mainstream (still, it's not that alternative), but when she was promoting the single, she promoted only fairyland, that is a very safe track

I still think Ayumi experiences when she can considering the fact that she is to have a summer and winter song each year. Even in her earlier years, when she made up a significant chunk of Avex's income, she was still pressured into releasing a best album. She is a product, and a mainstream one at that. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Ayumi doesn't always promote her b-sides, right? If that is the case, then she didn't actually avoid promoting Alterna. Still, such an odd song was on a very mainstream single.