Stay Gold - Thoughts on Hikaru Utada

[Minttulatte]

I found myself agreeing in almost everything you have written here. I personally feel that Hikki is far more better than Ayu but that's just my opinion. I really loved reading this article. Why didn't I notice it before? o.O

[microphone]

Your commitment to Utada Hikaru is admirable! What a lovely thing to share to everyone. I have just a few criticisms ^^"

First, try not to repeat too much. you wrote in the beginning that Utada is an American but you kept writing it again afterward. Assume that the reader has a good memory.
Your choice of words concerning Ayumi is dangerous. No one is born musically talented. It is a skill acquired through experience and practice, isn't it? Wouldn't you agree that both Utada and Ayumi have acquired this skill? Ayumi has composed many times. She started with composing almost all songs of "I am..." in case you did not know. Describing her as "musically talentless" is controversial. Reconsider your words.
Last, this is a diary writing so you did not cite any sources, of course, but I can tell you were trying to write this like a professional article. However, I read many things that are simply suspicions and bias opinions. Be aware of harsh reactions to your writing even if you did not ask for it.

[Enfluerage]

Originally Posted by microphone

Your commitment to Utada Hikaru is admirable! What a lovely thing to share to everyone. I have just a few criticisms ^^"

First, try not to repeat too much. you wrote in the beginning that Utada is an American but you kept writing it again afterward. Assume that the reader has a good memory.
Your choice of words concerning Ayumi is dangerous. No one is born musically talented. It is a skill acquired through experience and practice, isn't it? Wouldn't you agree that both Utada and Ayumi have acquired this skill? Ayumi has composed many times. She started with composing almost all songs of "I am..." in case you did not know. Describing her as "musically talentless" is controversial. Reconsider your words.
Last, this is a diary writing so you did not cite any sources, of course, but I can tell you were trying to write this like a professional article. However, I read many things that are simply suspicions and bias opinions. Be aware of harsh reactions to your writing even if you did not ask for it.

Hi! Thx for the comments.

1) Not sure why you made the comment about "Assume that the reader has a good memory". The article I wrote is very complicated with full of references and definitely assumes the reader has a very good memory. I just used "American" instead of repeating "Hikaru" all the time.

2) Perhaps you didn't understand the concept of this article. I write many nice things about my favourite music artists. However, calling Hamasaki Ayumi "musically talentless" is the highest compliment I can possibly give to an artist. This appears strange, but allow me to explain:

You can assume being successful is a combination of talent, dedication and luck. Hamasaki Ayumi was poor, raised by a single mother and is half-deaf. Yet she is Japan's all time best selling solo artist and probably the world's best selling singer/songwriter in the last decade. In my opinion, being born talented isn't as impressive as being dedicated (as you can't change what talent you were born with). Thus by saying she's not talented, I'm actually complimenting her immensely. In other words. If Success is luck (which is not admirable) AND talent (which is admirable) AND dedication (which is most admirable). Saying a very successful person is not lucky and not especially talented is actually very complimentary.

This is the foremost impression I have of Hamasaki Ayumi. Someone who really lives for music and is so dedicated and passionate about her songs. Conversely, imagine if I said "She's successful, but that's because she's lucky and talented - she is actually lazy and doesn't care about her songs"

3) No, I was not writing this as a "professional encyclopedic article". There are like a hundred references in what I wrote... Just that a casual fan wouldn't be able to realise / believe them. If I were to write out all the references, I might as well write an article of references.... There is clear (intended) bias in this article, but perhaps you would like to point out anything that you think is incorrect?

4) You have to be joking if you thought I didn't realise CREA was Hamasaki Ayumi's composing name. I mean, I've bought over 20 of her albums (including some remix ones), over 10 concert DVDs and attended two of her concerts. The article I wrote praises Hikaru, but upon close insprection actually compliments Hamasaki Ayumi more.

Have a think about this statement:

"Therefore, the highest compliment I can give Hikaru Utada is not that she's talented... but that she is the only active singer that I still listen to regularly, that debuted before Hamasaki Ayumi."

Notice I didn't write "Hikaru Utada is my all-time favourite singer" ... So who do you think is my all time favourite singer?

[tinka69]

I have to say I practically agree with most things you said.

[emi♡]

I just have a few scruples...

I don't agree that she dumbs down her songs...it's kind of an odd principle also, "to dumb down"...the concept of what is "dumb"...her English albums are different from her Japanese ones, less simple, and more for humor...which actually reveals in itself a sophistication, that I think you realise...but...it didn't really come across too well.
---------------------------------

And I don't really agree with the whole idea that Utada Hikaru is an American...at least, completely an American. She is an American completely, on paper, but her life has given her two cultures, Japanese and American, and I think the fact that, for the most part, her entire musical career, and that of her parents', was formed in Japan says a lot, because regardless if she knows our culture or not, it still makes her, musically, Japanese.

I like the idea that you have, and I know what you are trying to say, and I know it's something that Hikki finds particularly funny...but in the real world of munny and business, no one else really finds it funny or quirky. To big name western companies, she is Utada Hikaru, Japanese Singer celebrity only. The fact that she is American...really isn't THAT important, except for the fact that it's good she doesn't have an Asian accent.

It's not really that important of a point, but I think it should be remembered because you really push push push the idea of Hikki being an American...as if she's an American like every other American celebrity produced, like Mariah, Michael, etc., and she really is not.

I don't really see Hikki as an American star because she has not survived in their industry...and I don't really like that she thinks it's funny that people think she is native Japanese. You know...it's a little crass for people to be like "oh your english is so good", but it's not really unbelievable for people to think she is a native from Japan...when...her whole career has been in Japan...and she's of Japanese descent...and all of her songs are in Japanese lol
----------------------

Another thing about that is that, Hikki is really very confident, and she knows herself and has pride in herself, and is sure of her work. That is not a bad thing, but, because she has an affinity to do things only her way, and see things from only her perspective, it does lead her to kinda...be a little arrogant about the way she goes about making her music. IMO I don't think it's a good thing that hikki doesn't care about her image so much. It's good that, she's been successful, and not had to...but I think her letting go of the "polish" as I call it, doesn't really help her that much, and it certainly doesnt help her be successful in other industries.

This is her job. And just like everyone else in the world, there's a certain dress code, and code of conduct that you go through. I think she has been lucky enough to bypass it in ways, and that a lot of us fans are so diehard that we don't care...but, if you just try to imagine how amazing she could be, if she was the full of talent person she is, AND she always looked amazing, AND she was always doing amazing things, and she was always in the news...I mean...it can only help her.

So while you might praise that she doesn't really care for those things...it is just my opinion, that, that's not really something people should be jumping for joy about.

It seems long...but it isn't really...you have a lot of really good points...I really only had tiny problems with those three elements.


About the bias...you have to understand that a lot of things, and the way you say them, do come off that way...I kinda give you the benefit of the doubt, because I see more of what you are trying to say...but don't be surprised if people get angry by certain things...like the "talentless ayu" thing lol

[Enfluerage]

This was a really good reply, full of well-thought out ideas. I think fundamentally, our way of thinking greatly differs though. Here's my comments.

Firstly I wrote that post for a specific audience - that is, someone who would want to spend some time to read a relatively long post, and maybe share/comment on ideas.

If someone "skim reads" this and is shocked by certain expressions I used, then I offer no apologies. For example, a classic line is "I regret going to that restaurant, because other places don't seem as good anymore"... Is a very good compliment. Take away the second half of the sentence and it is an insult.

Originally Posted by emiko

I just have a few scruples...
I don't agree that she dumbs down her songs...it's kind of an odd principle also, "to dumb down"...the concept of what is "dumb"...her English albums are different from her Japanese ones, less simple, and more for humor...which actually reveals in itself a sophistication, that I think you realise...but...it didn't really come across too well.
---------------------------------

I think "dumbs down" is the correct expression, which implies the person is sophisticated and it has a positive connotation (for the person doing the "dumbing down"... It's a line used fairly typically, for example "Make sure you dumb down that technical report, otherwise non-technical people won't understand it" The line I didn't use is "selling out", because that has a negative connotation.

And I don't really agree with the whole idea that Utada Hikaru is an American...at least, completely an American. She is an American completely, on paper, but her life has given her two cultures, Japanese and American, and I think the fact that, for the most part, her entire musical career, and that of her parents', was formed in Japan says a lot, because regardless if she knows our culture or not, it still makes her, musically, Japanese.

I like the idea that you have, and I know what you are trying to say, and I know it's something that Hikki finds particularly funny...but in the real world of munny and business, no one else really finds it funny or quirky. To big name western companies, she is Utada Hikaru, Japanese Singer celebrity only. The fact that she is American...really isn't THAT important, except for the fact that it's good she doesn't have an Asian accent.

It's not really that important of a point, but I think it should be remembered because you really push push push the idea of Hikki being an American...as if she's an American like every other American celebrity produced, like Mariah, Michael, etc., and she really is not.

I don't really see Hikki as an American star because she has not survived in their industry...and I don't really like that she thinks it's funny that people think she is native Japanese. You know...it's a little crass for people to be like "oh your english is so good", but it's not really unbelievable for people to think she is a native from Japan...when...her whole career has been in Japan...and she's of Japanese descent...and all of her songs are in Japanese lol

I guess there's a significant difference here.. and not just because I wrote Hikaru Utada and you wrote Utada Hikaru.

That is, I believe that a person's nationality is determined (in order) by:
1) Citizenship
2) Where the person lives
3) Place of birth

That is, an American citizen born in America and lives in America is no less an American just because she speaks a foreign language, is popular overseas or looks Japanese. I myself am an Australian citizen who lived most my life in Australia. I am equally amused when someone comes up to me and say "Wow your English is good!".

To carry this thought further, I consider the language, culture, traditions of a person to be part of the country he/she currently has nationality of. Like Hikaru Utada isn't similar to Mariah Carey or Beyonce (who uses image highly). She's more similar to other Americans like Yuna Ito and Lena Park, who found fame overseas. Just because an artist is famous overseas shouldn't be a factor that determines nationality. For example, Orianthi couldn't break into the Australian market when she started. These days she plays Michael Jackson's songs and very American-sounding music. But I consider her Australian. In any case, Hikaru's debut album and her latest album is in English. If you get someone who has never listened to Beyonce or Hikaru Utada before... Ask them to compare "Broken-Hearted Girl" and "Apple & Cinnamon".

Lastly, the principles of non-racial discrimination is precisely what I am writing about. Of course, it's just a joke whether I write Hikaru Utada or Utada Hikaru.... But in the larger scheme of things, how would you feel if you were an American citizen born in America and lives in America - but are told "You are not American?"

Another thing about that is that, Hikki is really very confident, and she knows herself and has pride in herself, and is sure of her work. That is not a bad thing, but, because she has an affinity to do things only her way, and see things from only her perspective, it does lead her to kinda...be a little arrogant about the way she goes about making her music. IMO I don't think it's a good thing that hikki doesn't care about her image so much. It's good that, she's been successful, and not had to...but I think her letting go of the "polish" as I call it, doesn't really help her that much, and it certainly doesnt help her be successful in other industries.

This is her job. And just like everyone else in the world, there's a certain dress code, and code of conduct that you go through. I think she has been lucky enough to bypass it in ways, and that a lot of us fans are so diehard that we don't care...but, if you just try to imagine how amazing she could be, if she was the full of talent person she is, AND she always looked amazing, AND she was always doing amazing things, and she was always in the news...I mean...it can only help her.

So while you might praise that she doesn't really care for those things...it is just my opinion, that, that's not really something people should be jumping for joy about.

It seems long...but it isn't really...you have a lot of really good points...I really only had tiny problems with those three elements.

What you wrote was very good. This is why I really really admire Hamasaki Ayumi, who always emphasises how she is a professional and how she really cherishes the opportunity that she has to be a singer. This actually is what my article REALLY is about. Comparing the singer who had everything with the singer who had nothing.

That being said, I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing Hikaru Utada chose this path. If she'd been somone that just sold 100k her career, I'm sure she'd also be happy ... She doesn't need the money anyway.

About the bias...you have to understand that a lot of things, and the way you say them, do come off that way...I kinda give you the benefit of the doubt, because I see more of what you are trying to say...but don't be surprised if people get angry by certain things...like the "talentless ayu" thing lol

Yepz, as I mentioned above, if someone skim-reads I wrote and gets annoyed, I offer no apologies whatsoever. I would be surprised though if someone who read & understood what I wrote got annoyed hahaha.

[Lady~Deviance]

Originally Posted by Enfluerage

Yet she is Japan's all time best selling solo artist and probably the world's best selling singer/songwriter in the last decade.

Well according to many respectable news outlets, the highest selling artist of the decade is American rapper 'Eminem' (over 80 million albums purchased/not including singles), with the British band 'The Beatles' in close second. This is based on their international and national sales. Meaning sales based on goods consumers actually purchased, not goods that were solely shipped to stores and remained in stock.

I loved your essay sweetheart! My husband and I are huge Hikki fans and always have been. She's my favorite. I appreciate your love for her. It's nice to see fellow Hikki fans on an Ayu forum.

[panda87]

i agree with your post in all. in order for someone to gather their thoughts and feelings through much observation and long-time contemplation to make such a thread should be appreciated and acknowledged. i'm sure the words you chose and phrases you've laid out were not thrown in too lightly.

i think this is the most justified way to put it, and i thank you.
and another thing: i don't understand why people can't just read things for what it is and stop nitpicking on what doesn't really matter--who's american, who's not, what's repetitive, what's good memory. wth? are you people serious? that wasn't the purpose of the post. get to the principle of things b/c this isn't a post about power and ego, whether of ourselves or the artists involved.

[Enfluerage]

Originally Posted by panda87

i agree with your post in all. in order for someone to gather their thoughts and feelings through much observation and long-time contemplation to make such a thread should be appreciated and acknowledged. i'm sure the words you chose and phrases you've laid out were not thrown in too lightly.

i think this is the most justified way to put it, and i thank you.

Originally Posted by Lady~Deviance

Well according to many respectable news outlets, the highest selling artist of the decade is American rapper 'Eminem' (over 80 million albums purchased/not including singles), with the British band 'The Beatles' in close second. This is based on their international and national sales. Meaning sales based on goods consumers actually purchased, not goods that were solely shipped to stores and remained in stock.

I loved your essay sweetheart! My husband and I are huge Hikki fans and always have been. She's my favorite. I appreciate your love for her. It's nice to see fellow Hikki fans on an Ayu forum.

Thx for the comments!

LOL.... Those news outlets are considering "highest selling artist or band". I worded my article very carefully. Which was "Japan's all time best selling solo artist and probably the world's best selling singer/songwriter in the last decade." The first part of the sentence is confirmed by Oricon sales ranks. The 2nd part isn't something that you can find anywhere, which is why I wrote "probably".

"Beatles" ISN'T a "singer/songwriter". Eminem is a rapper. Of course, there is also an argument to say whether rapping should be considered singing or not =) Many people say yes, rapping is singing while many others say rapping is not. I personally would say that rapping is distinct from talking or spoken poetry as rapping uses the beat of the music. Singing is distinct from rapping as it also has tonality (ie: notes).

But, it really depends what you define as a "singer/songwriter". I mean, Britney did co-write some of her songs.... But would you consider her as a singer/songwriter? The other counter-example is Beyonce (often quoted as highest selling female artist of the decade)... but that's including sales with Destiny's child. But yeah, if you just take general view of "music artist or band", then my article is incorrect.... But that's not what I wrote!


That being said, I agree I should have displayed Beatles and Eminem's sales numbers for comparison. I didn't show them as I had disregarded them from the criteria of "singer/songwriter". Also, it'll be interesting to see if I did indeed miss other "best-selling singer/songwriters" from the comparison.

[emi♡]

I just have to say, it's not really about her not being American or being American, only that I think it's better to focus on her being actually from two different cultures, because, regardless of how someone may define nationality, or ethnicity, whatever, she is...and the only reason why I brought it up was because the essay leaned heavily in the "American" direction, and while I do understand the purposes of why it's important, since people here do tend to be a tad discriminatory...I think it would be a little more accurate and stronger, if it wasnt so pushed.

About the larger scheme of things...That position is a bit different from what I was trying to point out...just because, while Hikki has spent time here...it isn't nearly as much as, say the average native. I believe she moved to Japan when she was 5?

About her name...I don't really think about it that much...lol your joke is funny...but I personally say "Utada Hikaru" because it's like...her stage name lol I don't really care about its meaning.

To other people that have felt they need to comment...I did mention that my opinions were merely small scruples...I guess I should have praised more about the stuff I did agree on, because really, I agreed with everything, and only had, as I said, a small problem with those things, because to me, they are a bit fundamental to understanding hikki, even if they werent what the post was about.

Enfluerage was very nice though in explaining his thoughts and reasons and humoring me for the purpose of discussion, and I am very grateful for that, so I don't see the need for commentary anyone else may have on posts that are between us.

Oh about the skim reading...well...I think some people would find fault in the "talentless Ayu" just because...you know, they love Ayu...they think she's full of talent...they don't realise she doesn't actually...have a musical background or anything like that...or they think it doesn't matter...lol! who knows...people take things in crazy ways all the time.