The Happiness of Ayumi Hamasaki

[tetsuo69]

Originally Posted by JackieRos

Who cares about what we think?
We are just fans, our opinions don't affect her
Is her life not ours

Nothing stops us from having our opinions

+1

as for me im against this all cuz of how little they really know each other, this doesnt mean what i think will ever matter to her. but seriously if your against it your not a true fan ? WTF

anyways congrants to her and i hope she keeps her personal life, personal so we wont have threads like this

[elvesword]

Ya, I totally agree with Uemarasan's opinion~I think being a fan, we can support her work, her songs and her creations, but getting marry is AYU's own decision, she just want to have a life as normal girl, and she must had been thinking a lot before she get married, and i don't think it's our decision to agree who should she get with for the rest of her life, it's her life and her marriage, all we need to do is wish her in happiness, and I am really happy that she found the one in her life~

[Uemarasan]

Originally Posted by tetsuo69

+1

as for me im against this all cuz of how little they really know each other, this doesnt mean what i think will ever matter to her. but seriously if your against it your not a true fan ? WTF

anyways congrants to her and i hope she keeps her personal life, personal so we wont have threads like this

Really, how well you know someone isn't measured by the length of time you've known that person. Sure, time is a factor, but it isn't the end-all and be-all.

If you're against it, you're against it. I'm more interested in knowing why and seeing if the reasons are believable enough. That's more or less what the thread is in a way discussing.

As for me, I'm happy for her because I believe that love should be something to be celebrated. Lord knows how difficult it is to find in a world of pessimists and cynics.

[Coelacanth]

Originally Posted by Uemarasan

The point of this thread wasn't to close the discussion on the indifference or negativity towards the announcement. I simply wanted to open the discussion on why do fans care so much. I personally hope that this marriage works. If it doesn't, it doesn't. I'm more interested in why it seems like fans like to think they know what's best for people they idolize. It's a fair question.

I'm sure no one has an answer to your question though. People feel what they feel, it doesn't necessarily have to make rational sense to you. Just because someone has a negative opinion doesn't make it a "strong" opinion either. I don't think the people here (perhaps a few might be a little loony, lol) really care that much about Ayu's love life or think they know what's best for her. I'm just saying, it's obvious that none of us are in the position to judge, assume, or even care.. but we're still going to anyway.

People have a right to call other people out for being hypocritical, yes. The impression I'm getting from some of the posts in here though are along the lines of "SHAME ON YOU. HOW DARE YOU? YOU'RE SO NEGATIVE" and condescending stuff like that. This is where I'm seeing elements of the typical "GOOD FAN, BAD FAN" kind of labeling and finger-pointing that occurs at this forum all the time.

And finally, I guess the reason why some people might have negative reactions is simply because of different life experiences, different views on love, relationships, communication. I've been in a lot of great relationships, and some really bad ones. I also know what it's like to have instant chemistry with an individual and feel like they are completely on my level within a very short time of knowing them. On the other hand, there's people I have known for years who I still find myself having awkward, meaningless conversations with. The main concern some people have is the language barrier. Of course, that can be worked out because they can both improve their knowledge of the languages. I'm a talkative person and I like to engage in serious discussion, that's what my relationships are built upon. I tend to get very frustrated when people do not understand what I'm saying, and I've never developed any sort of meaningful relationship with somebody who could not communicate English well. From what I've observed of Ayu's English, I honestly do not think she's competent enough in the language (for my standards, at least). If Mannie and her can deal with that, then great! More power to them. Somebody else also brought up that they looked awkward at times in the Making Of's for the PV's - and I agree. That's another reason why I was surprised at the news.

[emi♡]

what a multi-faceted issue! lol

I can only say that, even when talking and discussing your life with the people closest to you, there are many times different opinions and different takes on a situation, and people have different things to say, and different advice to give.

I don't really care for people being like "omg I want her to get a divorce"...but what can you do right?

I only hope that everyone respects her wishes and that's all. And just because someone has a possibly negative opinion, doesn't really mean that they don't.

...I'm not gonna lie. Someone getting married after 4 months (if so) is something, personally, I'd advise against lol

I think people have some valid reasons to be "against" the marriage...but then again, no one knows the true relationship between two people except those two people...so...in the end, it's a little difficult to make any reason be so valid that it's grounds to want bad things to happen to them or something...

[Uemarasan]

Originally Posted by Coelacanth

I'm sure no one has an answer to your question though. People feel what they feel, it doesn't necessarily have to make rational sense to you. Just because someone has a negative opinion doesn't make it a "strong" opinion either. I don't think the people here (perhaps a few might be a little loony, lol) really care that much about Ayu's love life or think they know what's best for her. I'm just saying, it's obvious that none of us are in the position to judge, assume, or even care.. but we're still going to anyway.

...

And finally, I guess the reason why some people might have negative reactions is simply because of different life experiences, different views on love, relationships, communication. I've been in a lot of great relationships, and some really bad ones. I also know what it's like to have instant chemistry with an individual and feel like they are completely on my level within a very short time of knowing them. On the other hand, there's people I have known for years who I still find myself having awkward, meaningless conversations with. The main concern some people have is the language barrier. Of course, that can be worked out because they can both improve their knowledge of the languages. I'm a talkative person and I like to engage in serious discussion, that's what my relationships are built upon. I tend to get very frustrated when people do not understand what I'm saying, and I've never developed any sort of meaningful relationship with somebody who could not communicate English well. From what I've observed of Ayu's English, I honestly do not think she's competent enough in the language (for my standards, at least). If Mannie and her can deal with that, then great! More power to them. Somebody else also brought up that they looked awkward at times in the Making Of's for the PV's - and I agree. That's another reason why I was surprised at the news.

I'm not really looking for answers. I'm looking for a discussion. And I hope that this thread didn't come across as something close-ended. I do have to say that I am always suspicious of people who do not try to rationalize their feelings. On the other hand, I have my doubts about people who over-rationalize as well.

Both positive and negative opinions are welcome here. My issue is that I simply do not understand why people would express negativity at this announcement. This is what I'm working towards, and as of the moment I remain unconvinced. No one owes me that, of course.

Exactly: there are so many different experiences when it comes to relationships. I'd argue that although communication is important in any relationship, the level of talkativeness doesn't guarantee that you communicate effectively. Some people need a lot of words, such as yourself. Some people don't. Some people need a certain corresponding facility with the language to develop a connection with someone. Some don't. The exchange of words alone does not define a relationship. Mutual understanding is found through several other means.

Personally, I'm surprised by how I put off I am by a constant need to verbally communicate in a relationship. I like silences and I prefer concision, using the most effective amount of words to communicate what you have to say. It doesn't have to be long, it doesn't have to be short. It has to feel right.

Weren't the PVs all shot at the same time? Meaning, at the time when they both first met? I've only seen the Virgin Road making of, but it seems more like cultural differences more than anything. In my experience, and as an overarching generalization, Westerners tend to be very expressive and overly affectionate in a short amount of time when it comes to body language and contact. As Asians, we tend to take our time.

[Uemarasan]

Emiko, thanks. Excellent points, all.

For some reason, the length of time doesn't bother me. Of course, more often than not, it takes time to get to really know someone. But I prefer to view relationships in this way: it's a cliche but it's true, the real work doesn't begin until after the commitment. Maybe for some people that commitment needs the presence of a marriage license, and they know that divorce is an option. How a relationship is is defined by its entire life span and not by what leads to it.

But, at the very least, children aren't in the picture yet.

[hsienko]

Originally Posted by Uemarasan

Both positive and negative opinions are welcome here. My issue is that I simply do not understand why people would express negativity at this announcement. This is what I'm working towards, and as of the moment I remain unconvinced. No one owes me that, of course.

I think when it comes to idols like Ayu or Utada or someone, their fans and the public in general have this image of them burned into their brains. The 20-something bright eyed fresh faced newcomer who seems perfect and flawless in every which way, who's single and anyone could have a chance with and whose sole purpose is to entertain us. This is the image that everyone sees them as and never want it to change, which is why when something major happens like a marriage or something, its a change in their image and the way people will see her and how she'll act. And People don't like change.

To me its not even the fact that she's marrying manny even though the just met not too long ago. Heck, I believe in impulse decision making, and that sometimes its better to do things on the whim instead of thinking about it. But I still can't believe Ayu is getting married. Because now I'm thinking everything is going to change, that she'll retire now to become a full time wife or go on a long hiatus. It's selfish, I know but, I feel like if she gets married we'll lose our idol because she'll focus more on her own life instead of her career and pleasing her fans like she has been for the last 10 years.

[ownsarai]

^But Ayu has stated herself that nothing will change. She wants to continue singing and being the same Ayu she has always been. The only difference now is that she has found a lifetime partner.

[TeddyGrahams]

I agree, but let's face it. The news was kinda shocking! It came from nowhere and thus, it caused some concerns for fans. And people always judge in one way or another.

However, I think we can all agree that we wish for the very best for ayu, although some of us are more negative than positive.

[Uemarasan]

hsienko, good points, also, coming from the other side of the argument. I'd really prefer Ayu to take a break, actually. For the past decade she has already given so much to her fans. Isn't it time that they, I don't know, give something in return by letting her enjoy something other than her career?

Thirteen albums, fifty singles, more than a hundred songs, all those concerts, live performances, photoshoots, calendars, TA messages, Twitter messages. How much more? Will it never be enough? She's only human.

Has it gotten to the point that for Ayu the happiness of her fans is more important than her happiness? Or has the happiness of her fans become her happiness?

[Nessa]

I find the remarks people are making expressing their worry over Mannie being after her money not only insulting to Mannie but also to Ayu herself. She's not stupid or naive. If people are truly worried about this, they don't know the first thing about Ayumi Hamasaki.

Also, Westerners tend to be socially contrained to have a long relationship before marriage. Not because they don't love the person, but because that's what's expected. This isn't rushed. This is knowing what you want and getting it. She knows what she wants, and she wants to be with Mannie, and he's obviously beyond crazy about her. It's only sudden for fans, who frankly have no right to be privy to anything in her personal life.

[njanjayrp]

Originally Posted by Kanzaki88

1. Ayu is a fluent, if not nearly fluent, english speaker. Mannie most likely the same.
2. When you're in love, things such as languages and talking aren't really that important.
3. Ever been in love with someone with a different native language? No? Then shut up.

While I think that no one else besides her should have a say in who she marries or not, she is far from being fluent in English. I agree with the rest though.

[Nessa]

Coelacanth, when I met Ayu in late November, we had a conversation and her English and comprehension was completely fine. I didn't have to slow down too much to answer her, and she was able to ask questions as well as the next guy. Her ability to read English is capable as well, as she was able to understand perfectly from a note who to make out autographs to. Her English is fluent compared to 70% of the Southern California population. Her accent, however, is horrific, but that does not detract from the fact that her comprehension is very high.

[kagami]

If people really stop being fans because of this good riddance. Who wants such childish moronic fans?

I personally think people are making way to big a deal about the whole marriage thing. We no longer live in a world where marriage is forever and divorce is looked down upon. Ayu and Mannie seem to truly be in love, 4/5 months isn't too short a time. They spent pretty much every day together when Ayu was in LA and they probably talked on the phone for hours every day when she wasn't....sometimes people just click.
I think they didn't waiting because they want to show the commitment they have made to eachother. They obviously see their futures together, and if it doesn't end up like that, it doesnt tend up like that.

I've seen some comments about how this isn't like Ayu...I disagree. She can be pretty unorthodox and we know she likes to live in the now. As a lot of other people has said, Ayu is a smart woman and I don't think she is all that trusting of people in general and she chooses her personal relationships wisely. Considering that, the fact this happened fairly quickly shows how much she trusts Mannie.

This post is all over the place but point is: Ayu is smart and will live how she wants, as she has always done, despite what other people say. Let her be happy, she absoloutely deserves it.

[Ayusan]

Some Ayu's fans are hilarious !

No one have the right to be against that wedding, nor the right to claim Mannie wants Ayu's money as it was a fact and dunno what else as BS. Ayumi is the property of no one, and even less the property of her fans ! She is her own property ! Keep this in mind !

She got married quickly and so what ? He is not japanese, she is not english native ? So what ? They know each others since less than a year and so what ? Plus we don't know for SURE since when they know each others so stop with Virgin Road fact !

It is the concern of none of her fans ! Not even if you are here since her debut ! You have nothing to decide for her, you don't even have the right to ! You don't want to be a fan anymore ? Good, leave, she doesn't need childish people behind her a$$ .
You are angry, upset ? But damn it, ask the question to yourself : why ? I'm sure the answer is the most stupid of the year !

I known fans can be stupid but that selfish .... it's just disgusting ! Some of hers fans are so selfish that I'm shocked, much more than the wedding announce !

What I find the most shocking through the cons is that they take Ayumi for a dumba$$ unable to know what is right for her, to be blind, stupid and dunno what else ! You are so insulting to your supposed favorite singer that yes, you are hilarious ! You forgot that Ayumi is not there for you and only for you, she can think to hers own life without caring about yours opinion, that's how it works ! I suppose that some felt betrayed but it has always been like this, you just forgot it !

She looks very happy, she found love ? Then I am truly happy for her because right now it is rather hard to find love or happiness but at last one of us found it !

[BlackSilence]

....mmm.... the news were shocking, yes...I'm still kinda wondering if she's serious (hello???she's just got married! xD) and even if I might think it's kinda fast and stuff, there's no reason to think that they totally don't know each other, or know nothing at all..It's impossible to get to know a person in 3 months as well as you can not know them for your whole life, and sometimes if you meet someone similar to yourself you just see through them, and understand them as well as yourself plus you can't just say that because they got married so quickly they will end up divorcing it's just ridiculous... none knows that, and we shouldn't go calling for that in near future, instead wish for long and happy marriage!

We do have a right to like it or not because we all also do have some sort of feeling for her, but we have NO rights to judge her decissions because what you hadn't experienced yourself you can't understand. And respecting her is the thing fans should do.

Most important is as lots of you have already said she's a grown up woman, she's smart, moreover neither her life or she herself belong to us, she has a right to live and learn, to get hurt and be happy, to smile and cry, and our duty is to support her during those moments and to smile with her when she's smiling

[toniayu]

Originally Posted by artcika

Most important is as lots of you have already said she's a grown up woman, she's smart, moreover neither her life or she herself belong to us, she has a right to live and learn, to get hurt and be happy, to smile and cry, and our duty is to support her during those moments and to smile with her when she's smiling

[JackieRos]

Originally Posted by Sirea

^ If you're a true fan, you respect her.
You look up to her and wish the best for her.
It's only natural that a fan, while having no true impact personally on Ayu's life,
feels connected to her and wants what's in her best interests, because you don't want to see her fail.

all I said that our opinions don't matter but it wont stop us from having our opinions

I'm not happy about the wedding but I am happy for HER
I don't have to look up to her to be a "true fan",
I love her music and that's all that matters.
I'm not going to idolize her in every move she makes.

So what if I disagree with things that she does, who really cares? No one.
My opinion doesn't affect her in anyway I still love her music

[ayu_ready?]

this quote "she's a smart woman" just drives me nuts. do you know what love can do to a person? go and read some classical literature if don't agree or feel offended

opinions are opinions. people are different. as fans, we accept her choice and are happy for her. as individuals, some like her choice, some, like me, don't. I think it's normal

it anyway won't affect HER choice and she will do what SHE wants because it's HER life

I look at her husband and have a bad feeling about him, without knowing him. I look at him and don't like him. what's bad in this? what's unusual about me having my own opinion...huh

so according to your logic if I say this, I'm a bad fan. sorry I'm not screaming "yatta" all the way around

and some people are like that too. you jump to conclusion and say that fans offend, disrespect and much more. I mean, wtf? just expressing opinion

if I don't like him I can't write "He's amazing, smart and suitable".