Thoughts on COUNTDOWN LIVE 2007-2008 Anniversary

[octocoffee]

@SunshineSlayer
Yeah, you're right. I don't really think that 02-03 was lip-synced. And a little bit here and there really doesn't bother me. Cause I'll probably see another performance of the lip-synced song that will probably sound just as good live.




*_o Freaking Ayu drama hurts my brain. I don't get how so many people, most of them probably older than I am, who still don't understand the concept of music. Music is art. Art is abstract. You can't place a specific label for it, because all judgements are subjective. I'm pretty sure all of us can agree that Ayu makes music. So, some people can say that they love what she does and how she sounds right now while others might say they hate it. When she moves on to another sound, people's opinions will change again. That's just how it works. So, what I don't get is why not keep that in mind? People have opinions. You have an opinion. It's not that hard to state your opinion while not insulting anyone else's. People in politics do it all the time. Wait, bad analogy.

Gah. Anyway, back to the topic. Bold&Delicious didn't sound aswesome like it did AT06but it was fun to see live again. SURREAL was probably the worst vocal-wise, but again, seeing her prance around in that awesome red outfit. evolution and Boys and Girls were normal, and again, fun to watch. glitter sounds like a good concert staple, especially if she doesn't overdo the vibrato and stuff. + and Humming were again, a lot of fun to watch.

So overall, this was an awesome concert. Vocals were okay, costumes were great, but the main factor was that I had a TON of fun watching this. And I'm sitting at home, being fat and lazy. Making me excited and energetic can be VERY hard to do. So GOOD JOB AYU! ^_^

[truehappiness]

Yay for outside opinions! Not to this conversation, but like... to... Ayu lives in general.

Originally Posted by dillpops@JPM

Honestly, I don't know where all you guys are getting the 'omg she sounded better before and now she's rubbish 03i2j3233n313!!' vibe from because honestly, her concert DVDs and the majority of her TV lives have always been at least 75-80% off ones and have been so for her whole career.

I've seen all her concerts from the 2000 DVDs to her recent performances and I would say her only consistancy IS her flawed vocals Laugh I own them and even I don't watch them because sometimes her vocals just spoil it for me. Arena and Stadium tours 2002 being the worst and the countdown lives have always been Crazy to be honest.

Jpop isn't about being a great singer, and to be honest, pop music isn't. It's about the whole package, especially in Jpop. That's why the idol package is so successful in Japan Laugh I find jpop singers to be the least consistent live singers ever, HYDE from L'arc-en-ciel being another dodgy live monkey.

Note on the countdowns though, the 06-07 show I went to was the day before new year and she sounded awesome - yet the actual filmed show was quite appaling. And the same has happened this year. I'll be interested to see how the arena tour 2007 dvd turns out because I went to the night before that one too. It'll be interesting to see.

[SunshineSlayer]

Originally Posted by Kikaru

^What I don't get is that if she lipsynched Step you, why use a different version than the studio version? STEP you was released close enough that she could just used the studio version...

It could be me, but her 2007 performances when she was promoting A Best 2 seemed fine. And her fated performances weren't bad either. After that everything went downhill...

Weird.

Artists almost never lipsynch to a studio version these days. They re-record a live version of the song and then lip synch to that, so that it sounds live, but really isn't. This performance I really don't feel was live.

I noticed her voice starting to go downhill around the release of Jewel and then it progressively got worse after that, culminating in A-Nation 2007. (as someone stated, the TV news clips is what she really sounded like, not what was released on tv and dvd after that.)

Then Together When and this CDL she started sounding slightly better.

[truehappiness]

I think AT07 probably proved that she COULD STILL DO IT, despite having "failed" during CDL06-07 / lives during that time. It sucks that what we end up seeing is the worst of the two CDL performances. It's not like she didn't do well at it at all, because fans could dispute this who actually saw it... but for the majority of us, all that's there is... what we have now.

I also thought that her A BEST 2-mixed lives were actually pretty good considering that she hadn't performed a bunch of those songs in years..


And. My verdict on CDL07-08 STEP you is that she's not FULLY lipsynching, but there IS a track behind her, aiding her singing. If you notice, there are parts where you can definitely hear her... but she's DEFINITELY SINGING. Usually lipsynching involves not singing at all.. :\

[ayumisrael]

CDL's 07-08's Together When... is much more beautiful than the studio version imo.
Just wanted to say, I really liked ayu's vocal performance on that one and wouldn't mind if it would be replaced with the studio version.

[PrincessAyu]

Originally Posted by weix2

hi there. i have been(...)

there's nothing wrong saying that the performances were bad. come on, face it. those who have watched the concert should know that most of the songs were really not up to her usual standard as compared to the past (...)
i thought it was rude to say that people who criticize her shouldn't be welcomed here. now, it doesn't make AHS a gracious place to be at, isnt it? firstly, the feedbacks were not to the extreme of saying she sucks. it was more of stating the fact that she did went out of tune for most of her songs and that's why people claim that the performances were bad.

everybody has a different way of grading a performance; some are more into the emotional delivery and doesn't concern if she's in tune or not while others expect her to be in tune at least to consider an ok performance.
(...)
sad to say, i do prefer her previous performances or even song choices. nowadays, it's so hard to find those trademark songstyles in her current albums for eg boys and girls, voyage, evolution, surreal etc i'm not a big fan of her Guilty album for sure. My story would have been a better choice if i were to pick.

also, her recent live performances are really really bad, almost all are out of tune and that's one of my concerns as i strongly believe that a singer has to be in tune most of the times and apparently, she just fell flat. it's kinda of heartaching to see her not reaching the notes cos' it's not just me who's watching but many other fans, singers and professionals watching too. i'm sure there will be those who goes like, "so that's how ayumi sounds like in live." i thought it will be totally unfair to ayu if other people were to justify her as a singer/performer in that one song or concert. you get my point =/

i'm not fond of finding excuses of her bad performances. some said that is her ear problem and others said that while dancing, it's hard to sing etc it's really taking in a mutual stand sometimes, and watch the performance to get the real feedback. afterwhich, knowing that you will still support her and i still do.

after saying all these, i'm still a fan of hers. i still love her and enjoy watching the concert and performances so this is my say on this concert and her current situation. i'm looking forward to her Asian Tour DVD though... i think it will be good.

chill everybody. again, there's nothing wrong saying that her performances are bad now. unless somebody come and say things like she sucks or to insult her in anyway near/beyond that part, that's when we fans will stand out and defend for her.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought like you. Perhaps people were offended the way I expressed my thoughts, however, it seems there's also the other side; you for example saying "i thought it was rude to say that people who criticize her shouldn't be welcomed here". Altho I didn't read that, I'm sure such a thing would be directed at me. Cos I was upset, seeing and hearing ayu reaching the lowest point ever. I don't care if she's happy like when she was younger, or looks cute. She's a singer and she fails to sing now, in my opinion. After everything said, I'm still her fan. But a fan of her older works, not current.

Amen to everything you said.

Originally Posted by salutcben

Actually, i've seen the whole show, and i've bought most every of her live dvd, so i can compare objectively, i found this one boring, that's right. (...)
One more thing, i agree with the fact that she seems happy ans smily, but if i want a SINGER to just keep smiling, i can watch some random Momusu concerts, and to be honest, some concerts from them or Maki Goto, are less off notes than this one.
(...)
Now i don't believe those lies anymore, she has really lost her beautiful voice live, and she need some hard work. Ayu, please stop thinking about your high price fashion clothes and shoes, about your haircut, or anything else but your voice.

Originally Posted by Ayulover_06

Well I finally got to watch the tour last night and I have to say that in terms of vocals...this was Ayu's worst tour. I mean she was off-key in almost every song. She did ok on the ballads for the most part but there were still noticeable off-key parts.
(...)
but I felt sorry for Ayu. She's just not the same anymore.

Originally Posted by SunshineSlayer

Namie is one of the very few artists that sounds just as good live if not better than on CD. (especially from 93-97, but even still today she sounds great)

!! Indeed so

Originally Posted by SunshineSlayer

And it seems very likely that she lipsynched Step YOU in this concert.(Going Oh Oh and Yeah in between does not mean it is live)

Maybe because they want Ayu to be better? I think UHPLUS went a little overboard, but people also shouldn't get defensive about every single even slightly negative post about Ayu.

Quoted for total truth:

Originally Posted by salutcben

Hi there. i see that it's the battle of the giants here. I don't want to take position, just write my thoughts about this concert, isn't it the title of the thread.?

To be Honest, i'm a huge fan of Ayu since 2004, and from her debut to 2005, i've seen her voice becoming more and more powerful and beautiful, LIVE i mean. But since fall 2006, it's like she's going down and down. And this year is the worst LIVE year i've heard from her. Every TV perf has been from hearable to awful.

I've one thought, you can tell me what you think about if you want, maybe it's stupid. Maybe it was in Ayu's mind her last year as an artist, and she has stopped her trainings ans stuff, i mean one year without any single, doesn't it look weird to you?? Only two singles this year, and right before Nagase break-up. I think this event made her realize that she doesn't have anything else than music from now on. So she came back to it, you just have to see the T2M TV perfs, she always looks tired and without any pleasure to be here.

So i think she continues doing music BECAUSE that's the only thing left in her life since Tomoya's not here anymore. And i think it's not the best reason to continue, like she wants to be busy, in order to not get depressed. I feel that something has been broken in her. That makes me feel sad.

By the way, for this CDL, i just can say that I found it absolutely boring, very flat, without any good moments, maybe only the untitled one, and i begin to wonder if any of you except UHPlus and others have good EARS, because most of the show was Off notes and hard to listen and watch, even with FAN-EYEs. I will definitely not buy this DVD even if i know that it will be a lot better vocaly, cause of editing. This show doesn't get me any interest anymore. And yes, it's obvious that the Step you part is pre-recorded, i've really heard the SAME one before.

and truehappinness, you're a so deaf and blind Ayu-fan, that it's funny and stupid in the same time.

I wondered the same as you, on page 5 or so. I wondered if they had sausages in their ears. Haha. I have good ears like you and UHPlus.

[truehappiness]

Don't think that just because you go around blindly criticizing her that you're "right."

Because you're not. And that sort of logic is just... juvenile. This is just one performance, and it seems that those of who who "have good ears" need to get your brains checked or something, because I don't see how anyone could be so.. BLAH. PrincessAyu, I don't think you have said one good thing about Ayu in the last year at this forum, at least, I sure as heck didn't notice it in your flurry of insulting posts to Ayu and her fans. I don't think that your "unbiased" views toward her are quite so either. It looks as if you try to find each and every flaw and instead of attempting to justify them, you blame Ayu for being lazy and incompetent. :\

[Bad Wolf]

Yeah, you have good ears for having different opinions from the rest of us. e_E;

I'm sorry but I didn't find anything HORRIBLY wrong with the vocals. I thought it was a decent performance. You didn't think it was decent, and hey! That's okay. But the way you're going about telling us you didn't like it--even going so far as to say there's something wrong with US--is mindless. It's stupid, to be honest. There's nothing wrong with any of us, those who liked the vocals and those who didn't. To suggest we have "sausages in our ears" is also stupid.

I can respect your difference of opinion, but I sure as hell don't respect you for how you're presenting it. Grow up.

[ayumisrael]

Originally Posted by PrincessAyu

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought like you. Perhaps people were offended the way I expressed my thoughts, however, it seems there's also the other side; you for example saying "i thought it was rude to say that people who criticize her shouldn't be welcomed here". Altho I didn't read that, I'm sure such a thing would be directed at me. Cos I was upset, seeing and hearing ayu reaching the lowest point ever. I don't care if she's happy like when she was younger, or looks cute. She's a singer and she fails to sing now, in my opinion. After everything said, I'm still her fan. But a fan of her older works, not current.

Amen to everything you said.






!! Indeed so



Quoted for total truth:


I wondered the same as you, on page 5 or so. I wondered if they had sausages in their ears. Haha. I have good ears like you and UHPlus.

stop exaggerating, her vocals weren't as bad as you all said they were.
I was shocked from your comments after I actually saw the CDL.

Originally Posted by SunshineSlayer

Maybe because they want Ayu to be better? I think UHPLUS went a little overboard, but people also shouldn't get defensive about every single even slightly negative post about Ayu.

Some of the immature comments make me think that they actually don't want ayu to be better, but they want ayu to be perfect for them which means, they have so many unrealistic expectations from her so of course they won't enjoy a thing she does.
Of course they have problems with all the vocal performance and they are harsh to say it's awful and the worse, how can't they?

[truehappiness]

I think that the reaction isn't because the posts are "slightly negative" because even I said that her vocals went PLOP at some points during the concert in my initial post, as did a ton of other people..

But some people who are saying that it's the end of her rope and that she's just HORRID as a live singer in general and should get "vocal lessons" and that she "drank detergent before the live" are crossing the line. The point is that there is a positive way to look at things like that, and then there is... the "people with good ears" way of looking at it.

[salutcben]

Originally Posted by truehappiness

Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaseee.

If I were blind, I wouldn't see anything but perfection, if I were deaf, how the heck would I hear her song? Come up with a better way to insult me later. I find that most people seem to try to find the worst in Ayu, while I am trying to find the best in her. And have been for years. And if that's being blind, then I don't want to see. Her flaws are there in front of me and I love her for them. So what?

And about lipsynching, apparently she lipsynched some TV performances of SEASONS, but... that's another story. No idea what happened there.

I was not saying this about your opinion of the show, but about the way you deny ALL OURS. I've read the whole thread, and your battle to have final word is a little bit overreacted. You're not acting for world peace.

If you don't want to hear our BAD thoughts about THIS show, so WHY DID YOU CREATE THIS THREAD. please. i thought it was THE place to express
our point of view, BAD OR GOOD. i don't deny that she had put all of her in this show, like always, but i said that I found most of this live, i repeat, boring, flat, and hardly hearable cause of LOTS off tunes during it, which i find unworthy for someone who has been a (mostly great) singer since 10 years.

You can see in thz Jpop collection that i have almost every live dvds from Ayu and i enjoyed most of them a lot, still now, so i'm not here to say only bad things about her. It's MY point of view, and maybe someone elses, so respect it and don't try to make us changing our mind please. That's the reason because i wanted to write my post.

[ayumisrael]

Originally Posted by truehappiness

I think that the reaction isn't because the posts are "slightly negative" because even I said that her vocals went PLOP at some points during the concert in my initial post, as did a ton of other people..

But some people who are saying that it's the end of her rope and that she's just HORRID as a live singer in general and should get "vocal lessons" and that she "drank detergent before the live" are crossing the line. The point is that there is a positive way to look at things like that, and then there is... the "people with good ears" way of looking at it.

People should just get over the "god! when will ayu fall? I hate her so much! and yay! she's failed! now we have bad stuff to say about her" stage.

Negative opinions are acceptable but there is a limit for an opinion and what's beyond it.

"OMG ayu's vocals were bad! ayu's time passed!" Isn't really an opinion.
It's just like saying "OMG ayu's vocals were the best in the world, ayu is the best!!" just in the opposite way, both are annoying and biased with something.

[milky_way]

I like waffles.


















... Sorry, just wanted to break the tension in this thread. I still like you, Ayu

[octocoffee]

We all have good ears, people. Even if they're shaped a bit different. THe only thing is that we have different minds, with different thoughts. ^_^ And I believe a concert should never be judged solely by vocals anyway. Where's the fun in that?

And milky way, you rock.

[truehappiness]

Originally Posted by salutcben

I was not saying this about your opinion of the show, but about the way you deny ALL OURS. I've read the whole thread, and your battle to have final word is a little bit overreacted. You're not acting for world peace.

If you don't want to hear our BAD thoughts about THIS show, so WHY DID YOU CREATE THIS THREAD. please. i thought it was THE place to express
our point of view, BAD OR GOOD. i don't deny that she had put all of her in this show, like always, but i said that I found most of this live, i repeat, boring, flat, and hardly hearable cause of LOTS off tunes during it, which i find unworthy for someone who has been a (mostly great) singer since 10 years.

You can see in thz Jpop collection that i have almost every live dvds from Ayu and i enjoyed most of them a lot, still now, so i'm not here to say only bad things about her. It's MY point of view, and maybe someone elses, so respect it and don't try to make us changing our mind please. That's the reason because i wanted to write my post.

Okay then, but don't call me stupid, blind and deaf at the end of your post if you just "wanted to write your post." The battle is happening because some people seem to not get it through their heads that this was one live, and not an example of her "vocals" overall. Sure, it was badish this time, but what about the CDL07-08 last time on 12/30 that sounded just fine? What about later on in the future? It seems that some people "gave up hope" for Ayu's voice after this, or just flat out said: "AYU. YOU SUCK. GET VOCAL LESSONS" as if just because of this, they "knew" that she wasn't getting any.

But to the majority of fans, the live wasn't boring. Sure it was flat, but it was hearable. And trust me this statement:

which i find unworthy for someone who has been a (mostly great) singer since 10 years.

Is far from true. Ayu has stunk at live singing for quite a while, and fans from early on know this to be true. Don't put her previous performances up on a pedestal just because they're from her golden eras.

[ayumisrael]

Originally Posted by truehappiness

Okay then, but don't call me stupid, blind and deaf at the end of your post if you just "wanted to write your post."

But to the majority of fans, the live wasn't boring. Sure it was flat, but it was hearable. And trust me this statement:


Is far from true. Ayu has stunk at live singing for quite a while, and fans from early on know this to be true. Don't put her previous performances up on a pedestal just because they're from her golden eras.

You are so admireable!! ^_^

You are like the only one who is really FAIR.

Before I saw the CDL today and I saw the comments here it almost made me give up watching this CDL because I was afraid that ayu's voice was really awful as a lot of people here said, but at the end I watched it and could enjoy from ayu's vocals at MOST parts, not all, and I was shocked because it's not as awful as people here freely exaggerated. as I said not the worst but not the best, she had hard time to reach some notes at some parts and songs, that's all, but the worst live ever? worst vocals ever? Give me a break. I almost didn't watched the CDL and I thank myself for being stubborn and wacthing it 'cause it's enjoyable and if it would really suck bad I simply would just ignore it.

People exaggerate like there's no tomorrow and when some people agree with them they go yay so we are right!

[se7entheaven]

wow
all of u are sooo imature
turning to hate ayu becoz of CDL? then do it LOL

truehappiness is quite rite coz ayu had grown up more mature and different now
everybody grows up OK
If ayu keeps singing like in 2000-2001...I'm gonna get bored soon
Imagine Namie also have more mature voice rite? so does Kuu, Can u imagine she still sings JUICY with her TAKE BACK vocals? no no no...a BIG NO
and Namie singing WANT ME WANT ME with her 'sweet 19 blues' voice LOL
hahahahhahahhahahahhahaa

hey where's Leah Dizon...Imagine ayu,kuu,namie,hikki, sound like her EVERYTIME they live

[truehappiness]

Originally Posted by ayumisrael

You are so admireable!! ^_^

You are like the only one who is really FAIR.

I am TRYING to be fair.

It's like... righting the wrongs that people are saying, or at least trying to clarify them. I'm trying to get it through their heads that there were other circumstances that probably made this live less than average other than her "vocals not being up to par." I know that I can't change opinions, but it doesn't hurt to try, right? Also, those people's opinions that the CDL was "CRAP" and "BORING" and "UNSATISFYING" could go for many people, but I don't think that the majority thought so... from an unbiased point of view, the CDL had her tamest outfits of CDLs yet, and they were ALL good. The production values were solid and she had danceoffs, a ribbon dancer, a huge stage, lots of glitter and confetti. Two stages were present so she could perform to both sides of the hall. All that was really lacking was her vocals, which people who don't even know Ayu could probably forgive seeing as how this was a TV version. [and to those who went to 12/31] If they knew that the previous concert was better, they'd probably have preferred to go to that one, but seeing as how many would want to see her at the REAL Countdown show.. :\

[There's also the fact that she's kinda performing at a little before midnight and up until half an hour after 2 in the morning.. so that could be a factor in her bad performance on the actual 12/31 thing.. can you imagine performing a 17 song set + MC with like what, 5-6 hours of sleep the night before up until 2 in the morning?]

[ayumisrael]

Originally Posted by truehappiness

I am TRYING to be fair.

It's like... righting the wrongs that people are saying, or at least trying to clarify them. I'm trying to get it through their heads that there were other circumstances that probably made this live less than average other than her "vocals not being up to par." I know that I can't change opinions, but it doesn't hurt to try, right?

I can see what you mean, but most opinions from people are extremely exaggerated. Before I saw the CDL I REALLY thought it was ayu's worse live as people said here, but after I watched that I was like wtf? they were so exaggerating there.

[salutcben]

Originally Posted by se7entheaven

wow
all of u are sooo imature
turning to hate ayu becoz of CDL? then do it LOL

I've never said i was going to hate her!!! My litlle "have training" part was because i WANT to have some great shows in the future, i don't want to miss Ayu like i did before for some american artists.

I love her, not this live, but almost all her career, i was just saying my opinion for THIS live, and generally for this year, but i've high hopes in her future and in the asia tour 2007 dvd's, because all i heard and seen from now about this tour is really good Vocally and globally, and it was un-editing tv news.

So yeah i will buy 2007 tour dvd for sure, but not this CDL, like i didn't buy CDL 2002-3 and concert tour 2000 Vol1, because i can't stand in front of my tv, or without the sound. Maybe i'm a litlle bit sensible from the ears. But for those ones, she had really good reasons, First concert tour, and huge sickness which was obvious.