How many rock-ish songs does ayu have?

[SunshineSlayer]

Originally Posted by *Petit*

What makes me not classify STEP you as rock, is partly the streamlined feel of the song and the fact that the arrangements aren't that edgy, there's mostly clearly synth sounds. I feel like it falls into the same category as ladies night (original version).

But Ladies Night doesn't have a single real instrument in it, so I definitely wouldn't consider it rock. And tons of rock bands use keyboards and synths in their songs. (L'arc being one of the foremost.)

[immel]

Originally Posted by SunshineSlayer

But Ladies Night doesn't have a single real instrument in it, so I definitely wouldn't consider it rock. And tons of rock bands use keyboards and synths in their songs. (L'arc being one of the foremost.)

I didn't know it had so much to do with actual instruments, I thought genres was only bound to the actual sound.

[SunshineSlayer]

Originally Posted by immel

I didn't know it had so much to do with actual instruments, I thought genres was only bound to the actual sound.

Well the sound is obviously going to change depending on which instruments are used.

[immel]

Originally Posted by SunshineSlayer

Well the sound is obviously going to change depending on which instruments are used.

Oh yes, but all instruments can be synthesized, which is the case for almost every single song by Ayumi, it's only during live performances it's actually played with 'real' instruments. Exceptions are Memorial address...~

This is just an impression I've gotten, correct me if I'm all wrong.

[SunshineSlayer]

Originally Posted by immel

Oh yes, but all instruments can be synthesized, which is the case for almost every single song by Ayumi, it's only during live performances it's actually played with 'real' instruments. Exceptions are Memorial address...~

This is just an impression I've gotten, correct me if I'm all wrong.

As far as I know, all of her rock songs contain real instruments on the album which are played by studio musicians. Those rock tracks would sound pretty hollow if done by a computer.

[elepop]

Some of you have weird definitions for "rock"...!

[Coelacanth]

Endless sorrow is very rock to me. Have you heard the instrumental bridge? It gives me chills every single time. That bridge makes it very untypical as a mere pop song.

What about Hana? The composition.. Idk what I'm talking about.

[*Petit*]

Originally Posted by immel

Oh yes, but all instruments can be synthesized, which is the case for almost every single song by Ayumi, it's only during live performances it's actually played with 'real' instruments. Exceptions are Memorial address...~

This is just an impression I've gotten, correct me if I'm all wrong.

THe difference is mostly, believe it or not, is in the use of acoustic drums. f.ex about you and alterna. It's not neccessary to use real instruments to make it rock, (game has about as many real instruments as the connected =P) but it helps to make the rougher sound. Just listen to game and about you.

[SunshineSlayer]

Originally Posted by *Petit*

THe difference is mostly, believe it or not, is in the use of acoustic drums. f.ex about you and alterna. It's not neccessary to use real instruments to make it rock, (game has about as many real instruments as the connected =P) but it helps to make the rougher sound. Just listen to game and about you.

Not really. The only credit for Connected is Ferry Costen, that song was all computers and synths. However, look at the credits for any of her rock songs and there are real guitar players, real bass players, and sometimes real drummers. Even her most poppy songs like Trauma still have real guitar players credited to them.

And I don't know what you mean by "accoustic" drums. Accoustic drums would be like bongos or something, I don't know.

My main wish is that she would use more live drummers on the CDs and use a wider variety of instruments. Notice that it is usually the CREA songs that use the greatest number of instruments(come on Ayu! Get back composing!) Also to use Enrique and Yoshio to record the albums - I'm not sure why she doesn't. (they've only appeared on a couple tracks.)

At least the last album was moving in a positive direction in terms of using real drummers:

04. is this LOVE?
music: Miki Watanabe
arrangement: HAL
Guitar: HAL
Drums: Nobuo Eguchi
Additional B.G. vocal arrangement: Shingo Kobayashi
Programming: HAL
Mixed by Koji Morimoto

05. (miss)understood
music: Tetsuya Yukumi
arrangement: tasuku
Guitar: tasuku
Drums: Tomu Tamada
Programming: tasuku
Mixed by Koji Morimoto

06. alterna
music: Shintaro Hagiwara & Sosaku Sasaki
arrangement: CMJK
Guitar: CMJK
Drums: Tomu Tamada
Programming: CMJK
Mixed by Shojiro Watanabe

09. criminal
music: Kazuhiro Hara
arrangement: Kazuhiro Hara
Guitar: Kaoru Kato
Drums: Masayuki Muraishi
Strings: Gen Ittetsu Strings
Electric violin: Gen Ittetsu
B.G. Vocal: Kaori Nishina
Strings arrangement: Gen Ittetsu
Programming: Kazuhiro Hara
Mixed by Koji Morimoto

^^More of those kinds of compositions please.

[truehappiness]

That is a bit weird though. Why doesn't she use her band? :/

[*Petit*]

Originally Posted by SunshineSlayer

Not really. The only credit for Connected is Ferry Costen, that song was all computers and synths. However, look at the credits for any of her rock songs and there are real guitar players, real bass players, and usually real drummers. Even her most poppy songs like Trauma still have real guitar players credited to them.

And I don't know what you mean by "accoustic" drums. Accoustic drums would be like bongos or something, I don't know.

Credited for game is HAL for programming and guitar ( not plural), and that's it for game. No drums. For About you Tomu Tamada is credited for drums. There's a clear difference in sound too. By acoustic I mean all intruments that arent only taken from digital media source, it includes all instruments that are actually played. And I don't think the el guitar should count too much, it's and electronic instrument, and it's so common in j-pop that it really doesen't make any difference. It's in virtually everything (like the example I used above from H!P).

[SunshineSlayer]

Originally Posted by *Petit*

Credited for game is HAL for programming and guitar ( not plural), and that's it for game. No drums. For About you Tomu Tamada is credited for drums. There's a clear difference in sound too. By acoustic I mean all intruments that arent only taken from digital media source, it includes all instruments that are actually played. And I don't think the el guitar should count too much, it's and electronic instrument, and it's so common in j-pop that it really doesen't make any difference. It's in virtually everything (like the example I used above from H!P).

HAL members can play guitar. When it says programing and guitar it means that they did both the programing on the song and recorded the guitar parts. From what I can tell, there is no fake guitar on any Ayu track she has ever released.

Originally Posted by *Petit*

And I don't think the el guitar should count too much, it's and electronic instrument, and it's so common in j-pop that it really doesen't make any difference. It's in virtually everything (like the example I used above from H!P).

It's in virtually every rock song too. It's invention was as a rock instrument - it is a rock instrument.

Just because something is "pop" does not mean it can't have rock influences. After all, the word pop simply means popular. There are several rock bands that are "pop" because they are in fact popular and main stream, yet their musical genre is still rock.

I would say that many of Ayu's songs like Unite and Evolution are a mixture of pop and rock, but to me their primary leanings, with all their edginess, are towards rock.

-Also, I edited my original post above clarifying and adding more to it.

edited to add: Suprising to me is that Startin' actually uses a real drummer. I could have sworn those drums were synthesized:

01. Startin' "original mix"
music: Kazuhiro Hara
arrangement: CMJK
Guitar: CMJK
Drums: Nobuo Eguchi
Additional guitar: KIKU
Turntable & Scratch: DJ Kenzoo
B.G. Vocal: Penny Williams, Kaori Nishina, & Sanae Watanabe
Programming: CMJK
Mixed by Koji Morimoto

Now how come Nobuo gets to play on the albums but not Yoshio or Enrique? Avex too cheap to hire them for the studio?

[*Petit*]

Originally Posted by SunshineSlayer

HAL members can play guitar. When it says programing and guitar it means that they did both the programing on the song and recorded the guitar parts. From what I can tell, there is no fake guitar on any Ayu track she has ever released.



It's in virtually every rock song too. It's invention was as a rock instrument - it is a rock instrument.

Just because something is "pop" does not mean it can't have rock influences. After all, the word pop simply means popular. There are several rock bands that are "pop" because they are in fact popular and main stream, yet their musical genre is still rock.

-Also, I edited my original post above clarifying and adding more to it.

I don't know if there are any "fake" guitars, because of the fact that the el guitar is already an electronic instrument it's not that hard to reproduce with synths, and it's not that obious if it's just background accompagnement. But for the guitar solo there's always someone playing it, as they're redited in the texts.

I agree with your last two paragraphs.

[truehappiness]

DANG.

I was just about to post these things. xD

SunshineSlayer beat me by like .. a minute xD



I think that it just depends on who is available in the studio and stuff.. or not? :\


She seems to either have the composers do it.. or the same guys as usual..

[Shingo Kobayashi is in her band too, right?]

Only track that has the entire band [I think] is ASFXX session030213.. :p

[SunshineSlayer]

Originally Posted by truehappiness

Only track that has the entire band [I think] is ASFXX session030213.. :p

Also Girlish and Memorial Address.

[truehappiness]

Ah~ really? :O That's cool! No wonder why they're so good. :] I hope she has another one.. ( a song / bonus that has all of them! )


I think that with the new album will come compositions like that to balance out the kinds that we already have~

[immel]

Lots of cool information and many things I never thought of, thanks.

[kotora]

Originally Posted by asongforXX

Some of you have weird definitions for "rock"...!

I agree...

[RebornLS]

From a opinionated music theory perspective:

Alot of the songs on the lists I have seen aren't rock to me. Alot of them have 5ths which is the dominant suffix in rock there for you could argue when 5ths are the dominant suffix in a song then the root note or instrument doesn't matter...it is rock.

To me it has to be loud and guitar driven. Humming and Because Of You are the only 2 I would claim to be rock.

Pop rock is more of an applicable term when desribing most of those songs.

As for Is This LOVE? being metal...i don't see it. Striaght fwd metal music theory is 5ths being the suffix and harmonies mostly being secondary dominant [3rds,5ths,and 7ths] the (majoiry being minor 3rds). A majority of Is This LOVE?'s guitar haromonies are octaves and even the production which can sometimes make a song metal is not. is smooth and in the slightest metal production is loud raunchy and one usual dominate instrument.

[SunshineSlayer]

Originally Posted by RebornLS

As for Is This LOVE? being metal...i don't see it. Striaght fwd metal music theory is 5ths being the suffix and harmonies mostly being secondary dominant [3rds,5ths,and 7ths] the (majoiry being minor 3rds). A majority of Is This LOVE?'s guitar haromonies are octaves and even the production which can sometimes make a song metal is not. is smooth and in the slightest metal production is loud raunchy and one usual dominate instrument.

No one ever said is this LOVE? is metal, they said close to or bordering on metal. Also, all this talk of 5ths and 8ths etc, doesn't really matter to me - what matters is the overall tone and feel of the song. Unless your definition of rock is only the hardest of hardcore rock, then she has certainly had more than 2 songs that would be considered rock.