[Charts & Rankings] Rule/Sparkle - ORICON STYLE

[SunshineSlayer]

Originally Posted by a_kingdom21

so u meant that arashi is more popular than ayu in world recognizion.....

I said in ASIA that yes, you can certainly argue the point about who is more popular. I would say that both of them are probably the two most prominent Japanese artists in Asia. NEITHER of them have world recognition.

^Please reread my post again because I added some things.

But it seems you are just simply going to argue just for the sake of it without taking into account very seriously any of the points I've mentioned, so I'm not sure what else to say. Arashi is just simply more popular right now - and not just more popular than Ayu, but more popular than anyone; I think its impossible to argue otherwise. And really, what is the problem with that? That doesn't mean that Ayu is bad or something.

[rakeru]

at least it didn't plunge again ^__^

[a_kingdom21]

Originally Posted by SunshineSlayer

I said in ASIA that yes, you can certainly argue the point about who is more popular. I would say that both of them are probably the two most prominent Japanese artists in Asia. NEITHER of them have world recognition.

^Please reread my post again because I added some things.

But it seems you are just simply going to argue just for the sake of it without taking into account very seriously any of the points I've mentioned, so I'm not sure what else to say. Arashi is just simply more popular right now - and not just more popular than Ayu, but more popular than anyone; I think its impossible to argue otherwise. And really, what is the problem with that? That doesn't mean that Ayu is bad or something.

we talk about their golden era.....not today.......

if in asia arashi more popular why ayu toped sales in taiwan or hongkong...even today.......

at least ayu have a few fans in france according to mw makin of.......so it's not NEITHER.....

[SunshineSlayer]

^No, this is about current sales - thus it is in an oricon thread for this week. As a side topic we talked about past sales, but only in how they relate to how artists currently sell today. You can't compare a golden era of today to a golden era of several years ago without taking into account the sales decline that has occurred for everyone since then.

And once again, I did not state as fact that Arashi is more popular in Asia, but that there is some evidence that points to that or at the very least that they are the same in popularity. But, the fact that Arashi has played 4 different countries outside of Japan (Ayumi has not had a concert in Korea), suggests that they probably have a larger network of Korean fans than Ayu does. In Taiwan, Shanghai, and Hong Kong they probably have an equal amount since they played the same venues the same number of times twice now. Korea seems to be Arashi's strongest non Japanese fan base as their albums and singles are consistently #1 there. I don't know about sales for Taiwan etc, but I would imagine they are at least similar.

And as for Rule being number 1 in Taiwan right now, I'm not even sure where you are getting that info from. This is the Taiwan equivalent of Oricon and it has Rule at #10 - http://www.g-music.com.tw/GMusicBillboard3.aspx (But maybe they aren't counting the whole weeks sales yet for Rule, I'm not sure. I don't think so, because that is pretty low.) Arashi's new single is not released onto the charts yet. But their last single was #1. But you know what I find interesting? It seems that AVEX is the distributor for Johnny's singles in Taiwan.

But does all this really matter.

Originally Posted by a_kingdom21

at least ayu have a few fans in france according to mw makin of.......so it's not NEITHER.....

A few fans in France does not equal world wide recognition. World wide recognition is someone like Madonna. If we are talking about only a few fans here and there, Arashi (and most jpop artists for that matter) have that as well. By that definition it means that Sakurai Sho (member of Arashi) is world wide recognized because over 1,000 Arashi fans showed up to see a brief glimpse of him in New York. But even I still wouldn't say that means they have world wide recognition. Maybe I just have a much higher standard for what constitutes world recognition than you do.

[waterballoon]

Originally Posted by SunshineSlayer

I would say from 98 to around 2002, she was very much like that. I actually have a lot more to say about this subject, but I'm already like 15 minutes late for class because of this! lol. Where are my priorities?

Ahahaha. Well yeah I noticed that from her debut (in avex) to about 2002, she was very much active in Japan society... like you know Ayu Ready? and appearing in many variety shows.

So doing that, I think in the eyes of the Japanese, they see Ayu as part of them in the variety shows; like "Ayumi Hamasaki is very much like us".

But from about, I think, 2004 or so, she just stopped appearing in a lot of variety shows. Even now, she only comes on Hey! x3 or something like that once/twice a year.

So, obviously, Arashi and whichever other groups who regularly host and guest in several variety shows would be more recognized by Japan... I think that's probably why they're so popular and sell 200k+ singles on the first day. Perhaps Japan views them as the 'wholesome boy-next-door' kind of thing.

I'm not implying that Ayu isn't the 'wholesome girl-next-door'... but it's quite obvious that in the recent years she has adapted a more high-end and high-class style. And I do love that diva and glam look! But it's just that, I feel Japan might not exactly like it and feel Ayu as a turn-off due to that.

BUT, in any case, it's not like it really matters at the end of the day. IMO, comparing Ayu to Arashi is like comparing an apple to a orange. They are both singers and entertainers, but we know they are very much different.

Ayu still has impressive sales in this era of digital downloads... so kudos to her for staying strong almost-consistently for these 10/11 years.

[a_kingdom21]

madona is american singer that surely will do world wide
i mean asian act that recoqnizeable..
n for taiwan sales take a look at anual sales..

or weekly sales when ayu realeases something..
all leaves far away..n j-pop/k-pop chart..

n for asian tour ayu stop it may b bcuz her condition..
at the 2-3 tread pages b4 this page we're arguing bout golden era thing..
so for me ayu is live legend..
may b some *** people also think d same..

[SunshineSlayer]

Originally Posted by a_kingdom21

madona is american singer that surely will do world wide
i mean asian act that recoqnizeable..
n for taiwan sales take a look at anual sales..
or weekly sales when ayu realeases something..
(......)
so for me ayu is live legend..
may b some *** people also think d same..

Everyone here already thinks that. No one is questioning Ayu's legendary status at all. And still, I would like to know where you got the info that Ayu was number 1 in the dailies since I'm always looking for more sites to track sales both in Japan and overseas.

Originally Posted by waterballoon

Ahahaha. Well yeah I noticed that from her debut (in avex) to about 2002, she was very much active in Japan society... like you know Ayu Ready? and appearing in many variety shows.

So doing that, I think in the eyes of the Japanese, they see Ayu as part of them in the variety shows; like "Ayumi Hamasaki is very much like us".

But from about, I think, 2004 or so, she just stopped appearing in a lot of variety shows. Even now, she only comes on Hey! x3 or something like that once/twice a year.

So, obviously, Arashi and whichever other groups who regularly host and guest in several variety shows would be more recognized by Japan... I think that's probably why they're so popular and sell 200k+ singles on the first day. Perhaps Japan views them as the 'wholesome boy-next-door' kind of thing.

I'm not implying that Ayu isn't the 'wholesome girl-next-door'... but it's quite obvious that in the recent years she has adapted a more high-end and high-class style. And I do love that diva and glam look! But it's just that, I feel Japan might not exactly like it and feel Ayu as a turn-off due to that.

BUT, in any case, it's not like it really matters at the end of the day. IMO, comparing Ayu to Arashi is like comparing an apple to a orange. They are both singers and entertainers, but we know they are very much different.

Ayu still has impressive sales in this era of digital downloads... so kudos to her for staying strong almost-consistently for these 10/11 years.

Yes, all very valid points. I should've extended the period a bit to include the first half of 2003 because at least she still had Ayu-Ready then. And yeah, I agree about the Arashi bit. Actually even my boyfriend likes Arashi even though he is pretty much a hard core rock fan. His exact quote was "I like Arashi because I want to be their friend. I don't want to be KAT-TUNs friend, I want to be ARASHIs" (sorry Karen!^_^) I've heard a lot of comments from Japanese guys that see Arashi as like people they could have gone to highschool with and what not. And indeed, after I started watching their variety shows I realized too that they are, just simply in a word, likable. Very funny and nice guys. I mean its hard not to like people who have shows where they go and babysit other peoples kids for a day or go to help out Grandparents whose own kids don't even come visit them. Yes, I'm a sucker for that sentimental stuff!

So I think in that regard, it would also be beneficial for Ayu to show her more human and relateable side to the public, instead of the more diva side that has been the main thing in the public view since probably around 2004. Especially when you are getting into economic hard times, I think that may even start to rub people the wrong way more than usual.

Anyways, thanks for the deep discussion everyone! That's what forums are for anyways right?....even if sometimes it gets frustrating.

[TITANIC]

Originally Posted by SunshineSlayer

^No, this is about current sales - thus it is in an oricon thread for this week. As a side topic we talked about past sales, but only in how they relate to how artists currently sell today. You can't compare a golden era of today to a golden era of several years ago without taking into account the sales decline that has occurred for everyone since then.

And once again, I did not state as fact that Arashi is more popular in Asia, but that there is some evidence that points to that or at the very least that they are the same in popularity. But, the fact that Arashi has played 4 different countries outside of Japan (Ayumi has not had a concert in Korea), suggests that they probably have a larger network of Korean fans than Ayu does. In Taiwan, Shanghai, and Hong Kong they probably have an equal amount since they played the same venues the same number of times twice now. Korea seems to be Arashi's strongest non Japanese fan base as their albums and singles are consistently #1 there. I don't know about sales for Taiwan etc, but I would imagine they are at least similar.

And as for Rule being number 1 in Taiwan right now, I'm not even sure where you are getting that info from. This is the Taiwan equivalent of Oricon and it has Rule at #10 - http://www.g-music.com.tw/GMusicBillboard3.aspx (But maybe they aren't counting the whole weeks sales yet for Rule, I'm not sure. I don't think so, because that is pretty low.) Arashi's new single is not released onto the charts yet. But their last single was #1. But you know what I find interesting? It seems that AVEX is the distributor for Johnny's singles in Taiwan.

But does all this really matter.

maybe bcoz that's Japanese version so the chart might lower. it's like AC case. when the OS ver release then it will peak #1.

[KarenPang]

Well no doubt that ayumi has left her mark in so many ways or another since her debut in the scene 11 years ago but you have to admit that it's not easy for her let alone any solo artistes to sell so much physical copies of a single as compared to before

that's where boybands come into the pic ...

having said that I respect her work , it's not easy to accomplish on what she has attained from the beginning til now

on the flipside of ARASHI fangirling , they already suppressed the total sales of KAT-TUN's ONE DROP within just 2 days

[njanjayrp]

I think riozz is right, that is only the Japanese ver. I think that in Asia, Ayu is way more popular than any of the Japanese boybands, the Taiwan sales chart is just one of the factors (Ayu had all of her 2008 releases on it, and even her singles ranked better than most of the albums), there was also a poll in a couple of biggest Chinese cities, I think the only band that got onto that list was Laruku, Ayu topped it with Hikki being #2 and than there was Amuro followed by Nakashima. I heard arashi has gained some popularity in South Korea, but S.Korea != Asia. So in terms of Asian popularity I think that Dong Bang Shin Ki are doing way better than arashi. And once again I highly disagree that concerts are the best popularity indicators, even Super Junior and another few Korean bands had concerts in Japan, but are they popular in Japan - no. Blackmore's Night had a world-wide tour but they aren't really famous at all

Now that I am done with that~ I do agree with SSlayer about the whole boy-next door thingy x Arashi, and I really like what they're doing. On the other side, not everyone can do the same, as someone said Ayu might simply be different and I don't see why would she do things she might (for any reason) not feel comfortable with and I am pretty sure there was a good reason that she stopped appearing in all those shows.

[Kingdom]

i wish ayu would have stayed on top tbh.. arashi is bad imo. kat-tun ftw

[SunshineSlayer]

Originally Posted by njanjayrp

I think riozz is right, that is only the Japanese ver. I think that in Asia, Ayu is way more popular than any of the Japanese boybands, the Taiwan sales chart is just one of the factors (Ayu had all of her 2008 releases on it, and even her singles ranked better than most of the albums), there was also a poll in a couple of biggest Chinese cities, I think the only band that got onto that list was Laruku, Ayu topped it with Hikki being #2 and than there was Amuro followed by Nakashima. I heard arashi has gained some popularity in South Korea, but S.Korea != Asia. So in terms of Asian popularity I think that Dong Bang Shin Ki are doing way better than arashi. And once again I highly disagree that concerts are the best popularity indicators, even Super Junior and another few Korean bands had concerts in Japan, but are they popular in Japan - no. Blackmore's Night had a world-wide tour but they aren't really famous at all

Now that I am done with that~ I do agree with SSlayer about the whole boy-next door thingy x Arashi, and I really like what they're doing. On the other side, not everyone can do the same, as someone said Ayu might simply be different and I don't see why would she do things she might (for any reason) not feel comfortable with and I am pretty sure there was a good reason that she stopped appearing in all those shows.

^ I think its too soon to totally say that Arashi isn't as popular in Asia without looking at the actual figures. Especially when if you look at their Taiwan sales, as I've been, all of their singles and albums over the last year have gotten #1 there, just like Ayu.(I'm not sure about earlier than that, but its possible too) And apparently their popularity in s. korea is pretty massive - I read that 150,000 people tried to go to their concert but were of course unable to. And as mentioned, in addition to that, they've played all the same places Ayu has and their records are available in those territories as well, though I don't know the sales figures. And if you start saying that lives aren't a good indicator, then you can't say that Ayu's lives in Asia are an indicator of her popularity there either. It could very well be that she IS the most popular one, but the bottom line is, we just simply don't have the figures available to definitively state who actually has done better in Asia. (that's the History major in me, I have to have proof of everything^_^)

btw, NOW Rule is listed as #1 in Taiwan and Arashi #10. lol. It seems that they update their charts at an ackward time for Japanese releases, so next week it should be Arashi at #1 and another new chart entry at #10.

Ayu's oricon position today: Still #11.

and Arashi finally has big drop down to 47k, but that's expected after such huge first 2 days. I doubt anyones gonna be complaining since they've already sold enough to hit about 400k, lol.

[CHAS_AYU]

2009.03.05

Rule/Sparkle: #11

[Lanz16]

^ She was stucked! XD
Thanks for the latest ranking!

[KarenPang]

Originally Posted by SunshineSlayer

and Arashi finally has big drop down to 47k, but that's expected after such huge first 2 days. I doubt anyones gonna be complaining since they've already sold enough to hit about 400k, lol.

1st day sales: 214,618
2nd day sales: 135,103
3rd day sales: 51,063

214,618 + 135,103 + 51,063 = 400,784

awesome , it has officially crossed the 400K mark ! & they officially have the biggest sales for the year , for a 1st week opening & total , single wise .

I'm so proud *pretends to wipe away tears* truth / Kaze no Mukou e 1st week sales btw was 467,288 . I don't know if Believe / Kumorinochi, Kaisei can suppress that but you never know . There're still 3 more days before the 1st week of Oricon finish but in anycase , a big congrats to the guys

Originally Posted by CHAS_AYU

2009.03.05

Rule/Sparkle: #11

thanks , it's stuck on #11 like what Lanz16 said

[CHAS_AYU]

^
Yup, their sales are awesome.
I don't know much for their music but it's great to pass 400K in just 3 days.
Luckily, Rule/Sparkle was not be released in this week, otherwise......

I hope R/S can return to Top 10 soon.

[nemesisyume]

wait a sec... so how much has the it sold now?

[CHAS_AYU]

Let's continue in Thread II!

[KarenPang]

Originally Posted by CHAS_AYU

^
Yup, their sales are awesome.
I don't know much for their music but it's great to pass 400K in just 3 days.
Luckily, Rule/Sparkle was not be released in this week, otherwise......

I hope R/S can return to Top 10 soon.

it sure's & I'm just completely stunned at their sales as of now & yeah luckily R/S wasn't released on the same week as what I thought initally or else