Guys: do you feel effeminate for liking Ayu?

[JackieRos]

jeez they always ask me who is that chinese woman
i feel like punching them ugh!
aha i feel cool listening to japanese music~maybe im the only one~
ok off topic i know

[RPGames]

Effeminate and proud of it!

No but srsly though, I really don't care what other people think about it. If they don't like it, tough.

[SURREAL__RAINBOW]

haha uhmm in my case, I dunno... but I'm sure she brings the best of me with her lyrics and music ^^

[Larien]

Originally Posted by ストロボ・EdGE

really what is feminine or masculine? What society dictates right?

Originally Posted by rikku411

But you raise a good point. Society wants people to believe that only women should be "lovey-dovey" or emotional or like "cute" things, but I don't buy that. I don't think people should be told how to act or feel based on their gender or made to feel bad because they act a certain way.

*hugs you both*

I am loving the atmosphere in this thread. More power to everybody here!

[amorphose]

Huh, what?

*turns of glitter*

Do I feel effeminate for listening to Ayu?

*blasts alterna*

NO WAY!!!


haha, just kidding. But really, I don't feel effeminate for listening to Ayu. And never once has someone told me that it's her music is girly or that it makes me any gayer than I already am for listening to it. I do get head turns when listening to some of her poppier stuff in public though, but heyyy~ Can you blame people? XD

[RyRyMini]

Arrgh, I’ve always hated how there are “girl things” and “boy things”. I mean, who decided this stuff anyway? Since it’s decided by “society”, I’d say in that case it’s all perception. But at the same time, not all of my friends know that I listen to Japanese music.

While Ayu’s music is probably viewed as girly as a whole, I don’t really think it is with the exception of those girl power songs like Real Me & My Names WOMEN.

My Japanese music taste is mostly poppy stuff, and my taste in other languages (mainly English) is anything but that..now that I think about it, I wonder why =o..

[waterballoon]

I'm actually a hardcore pop fan... even in English, I mostly listen to pop like Katy Perry, Lady Gaga, Britney, Madonna.. omg they're all girls.

[hanabiwings]

In my understanding, conceptualizations of gender must be strictly culture-bound and do not necessarily have anything to do with instinct or differences that can be explained genetically or biologically. In other words, we are raised to be a boy or a girl by the general precepts of society, which are shared rules that are held in slightly different ways by each individual dependent upon his or her experiences, inborn intelligence and preferences, and the influence and training of others, especially adults whom the individual held as gender role models. Of course, this is a generalization, and there are many shades of gender on a spectrum that certainly do not conform to either the contemporary vision of "male" or "female." That saying, a majority of people would likely profess to be predominately either masculine or feminine. And cultural artifacts and phenomena are often identified as masculine or feminine as are males and females.

The reason that an understanding of gender as culture-bound, in my opinion, is that different cultures have disparate views with regard to what is acceptably "masculine" and what is acceptably "feminine." Often, persons who violate the boundaries are marginalized to some extent due to the cognitive dissonance experienced by those who encounter them. That is: a male who does not fit the frame of conventional masculinity may be tolerated up to the extent that his actions or preferences cause those who encounter him to feel at a loss as to how to categorize and classify him, and subsequently interact with him.

In the case of Hamasaki Ayumi, the views of the "average" westerner and the "average" Japanese may be disparate with regard to how fans are to be viewed. While it is obvious from data presented at such awards shows as the Nihon Record Taishou and 33 Million Vote that Hamasaki Ayumi's demographic is centered on women, there are numerous possible causes. She has been identified as a fashion leader to varying degrees since 1999 (LOVEppears x appears release), and certainly the "kawaii-kei" appeal of both her style and the "product" (i.e. persona) that she has created are undeniable.

Nevertheless, if we examine her music, we see a much more varied view of what it is to be a "young person" and a "woman." In fact, Hamasaki did not make overt her gender and other such constructs until possibly her third album with the song "girlish." Until that point, many of her songs did not overtly address the gender of the singer/narrator. In fact, some of the lyrics in her second album use the masculine first-person singular pronoun "boku." For example, "and then" and "immature" feature this pronoun. Still, it can be surmised from the stance taken from many of the songs, including "poker face" that Hamasaki does conform in many ways to the sensibilities of a young woman as conceptualized by contemporary Japanese culture. And since then, she has more overtly referred to her own gender in such songs as "my name's WOMEN", "honey", and so on. The "kawaii-kei" factor has increased at times, especially in concert performances and other endeavors she has set out upon, including the production of 'ayu-pan' and her persona on the "ayu-ready?" television program.

As for the fan base, when surveying the crowds at a concert in Japan, I was surprised to see such a varied demographic. There were everyone from salarymen to older women (like my grandmother's age) to young couples who both looked like "gyaru" culture members (i.e. ko-gal and gyaru-o [lit. 'gal-style guy']). So, I don't think that Hamasaki or her fan-base can be labeled by westernized notions of masculinity or femininity; she does not exist primarily in such a sphere.

Hamasaki is idolized by women as a fashion model and charismatic icon (see, for example, the SUPER-TV special from 2000). Girls in their early 20s seemed to identify very personally with not only her fashion but also her outlook on life. They empathized with her lyrics. As for men, it is conceivable that Hamasaki is seen as an idealized girlfriend. It is not mistake that many men listen and have listened to idol singers in Japan for many years. Matsuda Seiko has a very large male fan base and was seen as the dream girl for many years. Kudou Shizuka was more the "girl next door" and also had a large male fan base despite the fact that her songs were "cutesy" and she was a member of O-nyanko Kurabu.

So, it may be that the appeal of the pop idol to men in Japan is much more culturally accepted as a matter of course due to the fact that idols are viewed as "kawaii-kei" and perhaps "idealized female figures." Of course, this does not mean that men may not feel embarrassed or be seen as idol chasers for listening to pop music. Still, I would say that it is likely that the Japanese tolerance for permeable gender boundaries is much higher than in the west. This is seen very strikingly in men's fashion magazines and by examining the number of personal care and beauty products that are available for men in Japan but not in western retail outlets.

Anyway, I personally do not feel effeminate for liking Hamasaki Ayumi or her music. In fact, I think that it is rather normal to listen to an idol who has been so well-known and well-loved for the past decade. Nearly all my friends in Japan own at least one of her singles and/or one of her albums. And I have no qualms with allowing people to know that I am listening to her on my iPOD or on my car stereo while driving in the city. I listen to a very eclectic blend of music of which Hamasaki's songs are only one part. But I have to say that her compositions make up a majority of the songs on my playlist. I admire her lyrics and her resolve to be an individual despite adversity both in her personal life and in the spotlight. She has not been uncriticized by people in the media (e.g. wide shows, Wada Akiko, etc.) but continues to do the work she loves and live as she thinks is best. I am more apt to think of her as a former yankii with a rebellious attitude who likes to dress up and likes cute things than as an effeminate pop star. But perhaps that is because I have read a lot of her interviews and listened to what she has to say on television. If I had just seen her without knowing much about her, I would have probably assumed her to be an idol much like Amuro Namie during the mid-90s or Kahala Tomomi in the late-90s. But she is obviously quite different when examining both the length of her career and the numerous ways in which she has challenged not only gender norms but also cultural biases against women, even as she perpetuates some of the stereotypes of "kawaii-kei" culture. It is perhaps due to the fact that she is fully aware of such stereotypes that she has begun more and more to introduce elements of cute into her concerts and the like. While in her first concert tours there weren't such flourishes of pink or songs about "my honey" or "all you cute boys and girls," she appears comfortable enough in her numerous cultural roles to begin writing about such aspects of herself today.

[Insanity1240]

Ayu is the complete opposite of what I usually listen to. Hahahah I'm more into HipHop and R&B. But I LOOOOVE Ayu so much. No clue what the songs mean I dont speak a word of Japanese but I've been obsessed with this girl for the past year and a half. OP I know how you feel but i'm over it hahaha it really doesnt matter. ITS MUSIC. MUSIC IS FOR EVERYONE. I listen to my hiphop and stuff bu i really like Ayu's music alot more
Im straight btw. And my friends would definetly be weirded out by the fact I like her so much but theyd get over it. Like i said before, its just music =/
If its really that big a deal just tellyour friends you think shes sexy and her musics okay ;P
Truth is, she IS sexy and her musics THE GREATESSSTTT.

[y_nathz]

im a female but im not like most female who likes 'cute-girly stuff' ~
even i dont feel like buying ayu cute stuff ~ (except MW ayupan , that one is awesome but i cant buy it ~ T_T)
im proud to say that im a tomboy ~ n im straight ~

i like ayu coz she's epic (dunno any other words to express it) ~ but i listen to almost all kind of music n i enjoy all of them ~

n i dont think there's a difference to female or male for music taste ~

most ppl see me as a weird girl but i dont care
im happy for being myself n i hope all of u can love urselves too ~

[Aditmi Krisnasaki ~II~]

of course i do!
i even present her in my presentation at my english class.
well, its topic is about the person i adore and i chose ayu!
and i've got a great score then...
sorry 4 my bad english..
hehe~

[oneheart]

I know what you mean, actually.

I was listening to Ladies Night on the bus one day, and my friends are like WTF are you listening to?! FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAG.

I was pretty bummed, but whatever. I love Ayu and I stand by her.

Luckily though, I had my DejiDeji Hawaii Pics handy so they Shut up quickly.

Sorry for the profanities~

[ストロボ・EdGE]

^ Ladies Night, lol!! I feel awkward listening to it too... I think my name's WOMEN wins the vote though ^^;

[AyuRox]

I do sometimes think things like "There are probably hundreds of thousands of Japanese girls listening to this too", but I don't feel effeminate when listening to/watching/thinking about Ayu. Not to mention that, to my knowledge, fantasma3c and I are the only 2 people in NC who've heard of, much less listen to, Ayu. So no one cares about the music I listen to. (going along with the whole "conceptualization of sexuality based on music" thing, which is basically what this thread is about, at the root of it.)

[truehappiness]

hanabiwings: That is one of the most well thought-out and presented posts in like.. AHS' history..

Best post ever, perhaps?

[C+R+E+AYUMI]

Originally Posted by ストロボ・EdGE

I really do!! The other day I realized as I was watching the JEWEL PV and I thought: wow, mostly girls would listen to this, not really guys.... I mean like really, I'm not like ashamed of it or anything but I would never show Ayu to some of my friends. They'd be like WTF? It doesn't help out the fact that the great majority of my friends are Indie rockers and don't really like mainstream music, lol.

Maybe I'm being sexist or close minded though, cause really what is feminine or masculine? What society dictates right? But I still can't help feeling sometimes that bubble gum pop and soft sweet ballads are for girls. But of course there is also the complete opposite opinion. I mean, the main audience of singers like Ayu are women but...

So dudes, do you ever feel girly for liking Ayu or any other 'aimed at females' type of singer? I'd like to feel more at ease. I'm retarded.

I believe it depends mostly from people's sensitivity.
Most of guys listen to metal, rock and indie music because they like it but also because it makes them feel a "man".
I find it ridiculous.
My hubby loves an italian singer who sings just love songs (that i find terrible) but he's still a man to me!
i appreciate men liking love songs or songs that deeply touch the heart.

[jiarongisme]

No. I feel more manly that way actually.

[ストロボ・EdGE]

Originally Posted by C+R+E+AYUMI

My hubby loves an italian singer who sings just love songs (that i find terrible) but he's still a man to me!

Would that be Laura Pausini? I love her! She makes me feel like a girl too actually (being a love ballad singer and all).

I think its interesting that this thread has gotten almost 1,000 views but less than 100 comments. I'm sorry~, maybe it was pointless to some.

[fantasma3c]

Laura Pausini I effin love her!!! OMG!?!?!?!?
Well sorry off topic

[ストロボ・EdGE]

Originally Posted by fantasma3c

Laura Pausini I effin love her!!! OMG!?!?!?!?
Well sorry off topic

Oh really? Cool.

Hmm, which is more girly, Laura or Ayu? Both make me feel like I have a t***t ( ). That's an exaggeration but you know what I mean ( ).