Lady Gaga vs. Ayumi Hamasaki... Who do you prefer?

[Andrenekoi]

If what a person do is technically perfect and people do like it, how can I say iit's bad cause I dislike it?

[brand new love]

because..

it's your opinion!!

mindblowing ik

[Andrenekoi]

For example... I don't like Mariah Carrey... her voice get on my nerves... but she does sing good (better than "good" by the way) and lots of people love her music (she is one of the best selling female singers ever)

So... how can I say she is talentless? She DOES sing good taking in consideration vocal technique, even if I not like the way she does it and people DO love her music...

The same thing with Lady Gaga being "talentless"

[waterballoon]

Composing a song isn't just about thinking up a tune and viola! the song comes out. There are a lot of things to consider, like which scale the song is gonna be in, tempo changes, chords, harmonies, arrangement etc... it's not an easy job.

I ever watched Lady Gaga live once during the American Idol results, and she did some acoustic/piano version of Poker Face in the beginning of the song, and from there, at least I could really hear that this person CAN sing.

Though the pics that identity posted were honestly revolting... eew. But oh well, the songs are still good, and that's important for singers.

[Mr. Goto]

lmaooo


anyway i vote for ayu, i prefer her over gaga.

[GRACE]

Originally Posted by identity

YES IT IS LOL
oh my god, it's useless now.

No, it's not. The Merriam-Webster Dictionary defines talent as "a special often creative or artistic aptitude." Therefore: to be untalented would mean to have no special creative or artistic aptitude. Gaga meets the standard definition of talent, having this aptitude and applying it to her music, her fashion, her performances. She can write lyrics, she has a great deal of clever lyrics, such as Poker Face's running metaphor. She's able to come up with catchy tunes, which is not an easy task to do. There is a lot of work that goes into composing, it's not this magically easy task everyone thinks it is.

and can she sing? THAT is where it gets subjective. The sound of her voice is pleasing to some, and not to others. That's the way it goes for every artist. But can she?



I think she can anyway. But that's not factored into my opinion on "is Lady Gaga talented?" What I'm focusing on is tangible, and objectively viewable. To compose a catchy song is talent. That's why the Disney pop generation is untalented. Do they have anything to do with their songs? No. They don't do the composing, and often time, don't do the lyric writing. The people behind them, who come up with the catchy music guaranteed to drive a generation of children wild, those people are talented.

Is "talent" a fact or an opinion? It's always a fact. Let us look at art.



Now, whether you like the painting or not, there isn't a way to deny that van Gogh was a talented artist. Why is it that talent is fact for art, and opinion for music? Is it because of what pleases and displeases our ears? But what pleases and displeases our ears is our opinions, not a judge of actual talent. When we look for talent, we have to look objectively.

When we look objectively at Lady Gaga what do we see? A girl with a decent voice, the ability to come up with catchy songs, and write a mixture of clever and subpar lyrics. If Gaga was untalented, going by the definition earlier, then she wouldn't be able to do any of those things. However, having said abilities puts her within the definition of "talent." So, whether you like her or not, she is talented.

But as I've said, beyond talent, there's like and dislike, and that much is opinion. I like Gaga, you dislike Gaga. Those are opinions. Gaga is talented, that's a fact.

And I know just that last line is going to be quoted and everything else I wrote will be ignored.

[love in music]

Originally Posted by GRACE

Gaga is talented, that's a fact.

And I know just that last line is going to be quoted and everything else I wrote will be ignored.

yes it will because even though i read most of your other stuff it's unnecessary and you're trying to get around the idea that you're wrong. her being talented will never be a fact. neither will famous artists being talented.

[sparkle glitter]

Wow, thanks for that informative essay! I'll read that right now. /sarcasm

Grace, all you've managed to prove here is that you don't know the difference between fact and opinion... and that you care way too much about this argument. Just admit that you're wrong. You look foolish.
You've got too much free time on your hands, buddy.

[Andrenekoi]

Originally Posted by GRACE

sing? THAT is where it gets subjective. The sound of her voice is pleasing to some, and not to others. That's the way it goes for every artist.

Not really, you can measure if a person is a good or a bad singer... There IS a right way of singing, and knowing this prevents the artist from hurting his/her vocal chords with the max effect of his/her singing. If someone is going to like or not the voice or the way of singing, that is where it gets subjective =)

And yeah, Gaga have good vocal skills and knows how to use her voice...

[Andrenekoi]

Originally Posted by sparkle glitter

Wow, thanks for that informative essay! I'll read that right now. /sarcasm

Grace, all you've managed to prove here is that you don't know the difference between fact and opinion, and that you care way too much about this argument. You've got too much free time on your hands, buddy.

So do you... You keep answering him... =)

[GRACE]

Originally Posted by identity

yes it will because even though i read most of your other stuff it's unnecessary and you're trying to get around the idea that you're wrong. her being talented will never be a fact. neither will famous artists being talented.

Originally Posted by sparkle glitter

Wow, thanks for that informative essay! I'll read that right now. /sarcasm

Grace, all you've managed to prove here is that you don't know the difference between fact and opinion... and that you care way too much about this argument. Just admit that you're wrong. You look foolish.
You've got too much free time on your hands, buddy.

If you actually read it, I made the point very clear that the accepted definition for talent is something that's measurable. Because it is.

[waterballoon]

Omg some of you guys are like ganging up against GRACE or something...

Well, Lady Gaga really can sing IMO... I mean it's useless to force each other's opinions down our throats... so what's the point of trying hard to talk about 'opinion' and 'fact'?

[PoetGirl]

Originally Posted by brand new love

lady gaga is the definition of TRASH. disgusting. i do not understand why she is always singing about sex, she is so ugly i doubt she's getting any.

i love ayumi.

i agree with this im sorry to say but i hate lady gaga, everything about her i find very boring. her music is definiton of crap

[GRACE]

alright, I'll be done now. I'm not even so much interested in proving Gaga's talented anymore, the reason I keep responding is because of the corrupted visions of what is fact and what is opinion going on in this thread...

Originally Posted by waterballoon

Omg some of you guys are like ganging up against GRACE or something...

I get that a lot on this site, it's nothing new :3

[love in music]

Originally Posted by GRACE

alright, I'll be done now. I'm not even so much interested in proving Gaga's talented anymore, the reason I keep responding is because of the corrupted visions of what is fact and what is opinion going on in this thread...



I get that a lot on this site, it's nothing new :3

lol sorry but seriously. in your last post you said this:

'Therefore: to be untalented would mean to have no special creative or artistic aptitude. Gaga meets the standard definition of talent, having this aptitude and applying it to her music, her fashion, her performances.'

that is a ****ing opinion if i ever saw one. so yes. be done now and just accept the fact that you're wrong

[emi♡]

Because Art has been dissected and talked about since the beginning of time...and music has always been something that was taken as subjective...

I actually don't mind Lady Gaga's songs...but I think her bio at last fm impresses me more than her actual music lol

I personally think that she can sing...but I think she's trying to hard to do all this crap with her voice...and it's soo annoying. I wish she would just...stop trying so hard with the voice, and the clothes, and the everything...

I think she is talented, and she doesn't need to do all that stuff...especially since none of it is original.

If the girl wasn't talented...she wouldn't be here right now...seriously.

But it is always an opinion...I mean there are probably a ton of people who don't think Ayu is talented. We hear it all the time, "She cant sing, she cant dance, she's plastic, etc..."

Doesn't matter if they are or not, when someone is popular enough to be talked about, then talk about them lol Don't spend time talking about whether they should or not...if you don't want to discuss, then go away.

There are other people who have valuable opinions that want to.

[GRACE]

Originally Posted by identity

lol sorry but seriously. in your last post you said this:

'Therefore: to be untalented would mean to have no special creative or artistic aptitude. Gaga meets the standard definition of talent, having this aptitude and applying it to her music, her fashion, her performances.'

that is a ****ing opinion if i ever saw one. so yes. be done now and just accept the fact that you're wrong

Having no would mean having no ability to do so, and, it exists does it not? Without even a fraction of talent, not a single one of her songs could exist, instead, they'd be the result of someone else's talent, not her own.

[*Petit*]

Originally Posted by GRACE

If you actually read it, I made the point very clear that the accepted definition for talent is something that's measurable. Because it is.

It is only if you have some set measurements or goals. There's no general definition for "good" or "bad", for "quality" or the related "talent". You cannot measure it unless you have something to measure it up against. Just like some dancers can be "talented", but talentless when it comes to classical ballet (which is very specific).

As the painting you presented fails terribly to the rules of f.ex. classical painting thus in this case making it a "bad" painting. However, as the artist got vry popular for various reasons and was considered to have created something new, this is now viewed as great art.

Problem in pop music is that the rules, or what you measure up against isen't clear. Sales and appearances may be one way, in which lady gaga succeeds.

[PoetGirl]

please open art thread and we'll discuss, its silly to do it in gaga vs ayu thread, especially gaga part (thats a joke gaga fans)

[jbrat2219]

Originally Posted by *Petit*

It is only if you have some set measurements or goals. There's no general definition for "good" or "bad", for "quality" or the related "talent". You cannot measure it unless you have something to measure it up against. Just like some dancers can be "talented", but talentless when it comes to classical ballet (which is very specific).

As the painting you presented fails terribly to the rules of f.ex. classical painting thus in this case making it a "bad" painting. However, as the artist got vry popular for various reasons and was considered to have created something new, this is now viewed as great art.

Problem in pop music is that the rules, or what you measure up against isen't clear. Sales and appearances may be one way, in which lady gaga succeeds.

I agree. You need something to measure it against in order for it to be considered fact. Such as, I am 165 cm tall. That's a fact because according to the metric system of measurement, I am 165 cm tall. Talent is usually judged on popular opinion.

One could say Lady Gaga is talented because she composes, dances and writes. One could also say, according to that statement, Ayu is not as talented as Gaga because she rarely composes, is not the best dancer and but writes all her lyrics. But that's only if you measure them against each other in specific categories with the same rules on both sides.