Ayu's music: when did it start to go downhill for you?

[Delirium-Zer0]

I didn't "grow up" with her (I was already almost 16 when I first heard her) but I've definitely gone through milestones with her music... several major relationships, high school graduation, my first job, my first child. So I can definitely relate to that. I've been a fan since the first Trilogy came out, so I'll certainly always be nostalgic for the LOVEppears/Duty era, but I try very hard to be objective, lol

But yeah, the RAINBOW era was the first time my fandom started to falter really... but I recovered, and to be honest I'm in it for the long haul now and everyone knows it, lol Every now & then our fandom is tested. Mine was tested in late 2002-early 2003. It survived. lol

[Uemarasan]

I started listening to her when I was still in high school (around the same time the trilogy came out) and, well, I still consider myself in the process of growing up. It never ends Yes, it's hard to be objective especially since the Duty/I am... era for me was very important musically speaking, but I'm able to say that My Story is by far my favorite album.

I agree, it's perfectly natural to have your fandom tested (which I believe is happening to me right now), but if you survive, your faith in Ayu as an artist will always come out stronger. I really hope that happens. But heaven knows I am definitely in this for the long haul. Ayu is already a major part of my life. It would be unwise and ridiculous to let that go so easily.

[Mirrorcle Monster]

In my opinion it hasn´t been a certain time.She went downhill after I am....until (miss) understood, and then from Secret to GUILTY, even if all the albums are great for me.

[Polyrhythm]

It started getting bad at around Rule/Sparkle....and its been worse ever since.....cept Ballad/You Were... which is like the one exception.

[Zeke.]

Well now that I think about it, it really started going downhill for me when she was involved in that drug scandal, reportedly snorting substances and when that "scandalous tape" surfaced...

Lol.

[PoetGirl]

Originally Posted by Uemarasan

Poetgirl, I'm not complaining for the sake of complaining. I've tried to articulate what I've been experiencing with regards to her music, and I hope I've managed to express myself clearly and honestly. The last thing I want to achieve with this thread is to get other people to participate in a senseless whinefest.

That complain part wasnt really about you, I was commenting this whole 'past ayu is better' syndrome I noticed Ayu fans have. That's all, but I support honest expressing ofcourse, just... I had to comment that.

[Uemarasan]

Originally Posted by PoetGirl

That complain part wasnt really about you, I was commenting this whole 'past ayu is better' syndrome I noticed Ayu fans have. That's all, but I support honest expressing ofcourse, just... I had to comment that.

Well, maybe if their "past Ayu is better" attitude is without reason, then go ahead and take issue with it I hope I've at least been able to substantiate my side of that argument.

[Delirium-Zer0]

Yeah, I don't think there's anything wrong with having that opinion as long as you have your reasons for it. I thought I was one of those people for a very long time until RnRC - I haven't been so excited about an Ayu album since "I am...", honestly.

[Lady~Deviance]

To fully explain or construe when Ayu's career went 'downhill' depends on a person's subjective definition of the term. I for one feel the word 'downhill' in this context refers to when her sales plummeted. But I guess I'll comply to this thread.

In regard to her music career, I find that her albums are either hits or misses. For example, I simply adore 'Rainbow' but I feel that 'My Story' is the worst album she's ever released. Adding to that, I think that 'Miss-understood was one of her best albums, but then again I utterly detest 'Secret' but I love 'Guilty' to death. 'Next Level' was interesting while 'R'n'RC' was too monotonous.

What I'm trying to illustrate is, I find there is no sufficient overall cohesion in her works. So I can't really say whether or not her career has truly reached an inferior level.

[Uemarasan]

Lady~Deviance, I hope it is clear in the first post that the context within which I am trying to create a discussion is the quality of Ayu's music and not her sales

Oh, poor My Story. You are seldom loved Granted, I had to listen to it numerous times, with a really good sound system, from beginning to end without skipping or rearranging the tracks, taking pains to understand the songs in untranslated Japanese (which I recommend to anyone; the specific words at which the music or her voice shifts, changes, breaks, registers emotion, everything so carefully chosen, it adds so much to the listening experience), and allowing some time for the music to seep in, to fully appreciate the nuances and depth of the album.

[truehappiness]

For me, it never went downhill. Enjoyed her songs when I discovered her nearly 10 years ago and I still enjoy her songs (old and new) just as much if not more even now.

Sure, she isn't pushing herself as hard as she was a decade ago, but I feel that this is more because that's what she wants. Watching and reading all of her interviews, it seems like she's simply proceeded through her albums in the same way from the very beginning (well, not necessarily ASFXX, but more like LOVEppears, haha.) though recently she seems to have gone through a lack of inspiration for GUILTY and NEXT LEVEL, only to get it back during Rock'n'Roll Circus. (I remember for GUILTY, one day she just wrote like 5 or 6 tracks' lyrics because she had this revelation that she just HAD TO SING or something like that...)

I sort of agree that she hasn't exactly been trying to push the envelope when it comes to her music, but I feel like since she's kind of doing what she's wanted with singles/albums as always, that's good enough for me. (But then again, I've liked almost everything since I listened to For My Dear... and teddy bear as a kid, haha.) Even though she isn't the face of innovation or constantly transforming as she used to, she's still her. I would argue that she is more "Hamasaki Ayumi-ish" now than she was before and after all of the transformations of the past (and the sort of lost-phase that was GUILTY/NEXT LEVEL imo), she's found herself. The real Hamasaki Ayumi.

But that's just me, I guess. In saying that she should do this or do that, I think people are essentially saying that she should not be herself and be this "ideal" version of herself, but I feel that she's just been herself this entire time... and isn't that kind of why she became a singer in the first place? To find a place to call home and find herself?

[hsienko]

Originally Posted by Delirium-Zer0

I absolutely think she changed in a way I found unfavorable, but she came back up from it in some ways.

"RAINBOW" was a maaaaaajjjooorr disappointment for me personally. One of the things I loved Ayu for back in the day was not using English in her songs the way most jpop artists did. It almost never happened, and I loved that she was expressing herself honestly and sticking with what made her comfortable. Ayu was personal - she wrote for herself, and about herself and her friends. After her trip to HK for uraayu, she realized she had listeners who spoke english and suddenly felt the need to cater to them. This, in my opinion, was a bad move - she was suddenly writing for us, but for most of us, that's not what we wanted. It cheapened her influence on us, it made her seem less genuine. If I have fun watching a bear do his thing at the zoo, I don't want him to start posing when he notices me. It's cheesy. And that's what Ayu started to do, which was disappointing.

I think what people forget is that A LOT of people hated RAINBOW when it first came out. I, personally, wasn't a fan of her yet but I knew a lot of people who were and stopped being a fan because of this album.

Originally Posted by Delirium-Zer0

Her other problem since then has been her insistence on sticking with alot of the same people over time. Many people who she's worked with have been dismissed over time, and good thing too - not that they were bad, just that their time was over. But she should have switched graphic design companies ages ago. She should really replace Peco as a backup vocalist since, whether you like her or not, she's not a good choice to back AYU. Her voice is just too different.

In any case, she needs to surround herself with people of different backgrounds and mindsets. Co-workers aren't supposed to be friends, they're supposed to be co-WORKers. But she keeps them around as her family, and creative energy gets stale. When she shifted people out more often, her sound changed more often.

She's trying way too hard to please other people - her staff "family", fans, etc, and as a result she only takes creative risks occasionally.

THIS! Like most artist will only work with people for like an album or 2. She's had the same staff for a long time, not to mention instead of finding new "ground-breaking talent" she been frequenting the same Composers/Arrangers since 1999 which results in very boring songs. I mean seriously does need to keep working with CMJK, HIKARI, DAI, & HAL?

I think she's really blurred the line between Ayumi Hamasaki "THE BOSS" and Ayumi Hamasaki "THE FRIEND." She probably doesn't want to fire any of her staff because 1. she's grown too close to them 2. She doesn't want them to be out of work and 3. She doesn't want to fire them and have them hate her. I think it's pretty ridiculous how big her entourage is. Even big-ticket western artists like Beyonce or Mariah Carey don't have entourages that size.

[Picaflor 7/4]

I'd say Secret. That imo was her last best album (as a whole). I love some tracks here and there on post-secret albums, but none of them really work, for me. I feel like if she took the time to start composing, and arranging, and not release an album every year, she'd have many more masterpieces. Sometimes it seems as though she's releasing an album every year just to keep that title of being able to say that. She needs to slow it down, from the very first album, she's needed to slow it down.

[truehappiness]

About RAINBOW: People still hate it. That hasn't changed. Though MY STORY was one of those albums where older (overseas) fans left at the time and newer fans embraced that album. It's kind of weird, imo.

I think Ayu is just really comfortable with her staff. They understand her and are able to create whatever she wants to her liking. I'd prefer that she work with more than 3 or 4 arrangers, but I think that because they're so versatile, (the good ones anyway) she doesn't feel the need to switch things up. Same thing goes for composers too... I mean the only new face that composed something for the latest album was Hana Nishimura, and that was just for one (two) song(s).

To be honest though, I don't know if she's ever been all that adventurous with her composer/arrangers. She has many where she has only worked with them a few times. You know, I kind of wonder if one day she'll get a tape of random composer demos (that she likes) a la Liar and use a bunch of relative unknowns, haha.

[sugarbasil]

Originally Posted by Jwiz

It went 'downhill' when my expectation for her music heightened rapidly while being an ardent fan of her.

You hit the nail on the head.

Anyways, I was constantly impressed and pleased with her music until GUILTY. It is still my least favorite album. I also didn't like NEXT LEVEL much. Moreover, I really didn't like the photoshoots, album art, music videos, ect. during those album eras. So two albums like this in a row and I started to feel it went "downhill."

I did, however, very much enjoy RnRC and I've got a feeling of satisfaction back at least.

[Yumsushi]

Originally Posted by truehappiness

But that's just me, I guess. In saying that she should do this or do that, I think people are essentially saying that she should not be herself and be this "ideal" version of herself, but I feel that she's just been herself this entire time... and isn't that kind of why she became a singer in the first place? To find a place to call home and find herself?

I'd be very happy if she did that, so long as it didnt all sound the same, lol.
Im curious as to why you define her current work as the real Ayumi Hamasaki. Care to elaborate?

[maikaru]

Originally Posted by hsienko

I think she's really blurred the line between Ayumi Hamasaki "THE BOSS" and Ayumi Hamasaki "THE FRIEND." She probably doesn't want to fire any of her staff because 1. she's grown too close to them 2. She doesn't want them to be out of work and 3. She doesn't want to fire them and have them hate her. I think it's pretty ridiculous how big her entourage is. Even big-ticket western artists like Beyonce or Mariah Carey don't have entourages that size.

I think what's important to understand is that I think even still Ayu has trust issues. When Banchou left her earlier this year, she was kind of distraught on Twitter, and wasn't the usually happy self on twitter. It took her how many years to change her art team?

It all stems back to what she said very early on in the career, when she was doing the interview for super tv. She said she can entrust no one with her work, so she does everything herself, except that which she cannot do, like composing songs or choreography. But in the end, she even took on the composing for herself.

But in the end, even composing became a chore for her, and I think she said around M that she wasn't composing because she wanted to, but because the songs that she had with demos weren't the sounds she wanted to make. And by endless sorrow, she had gotten completely tired of composing.

It took her almost 5 years after I amm... for her to declare on CNN that she had finally found a team that she relied on, that worked for her, and that she could give the work to them without having to do everything for themselves.

I think for her to fire the entire entourage, and then get new ones every year would be extremely damaging to her confidence, and she'd once again decide that she would need to do everything, and then once again become tired...

I think this is the change of identity we found in Ayumi Hamasaki. Before, she overlooked everything, and she did everything, and even in Kanariya pv, she did the makeup for the actors... but as the years went on, she found the same people she could trust and put her faith in, and that was something I think she needed. Of course, she overlooks everything now still, but she has the support team she can rely on that she obviously didn't in the time of Concert Tours, Dome Tours, etc.

It's not as easy as those three reasons you mentioned, and Ayu is a human like the rest of us, and she is still not an adult in her mind. She can't clearly make business decisions if it affects the people around her...

But I disagree about needing new composers. What about the artists who compose everything themselves? It's the same kind of concept... she doesn't need new composers, because new composers will mean a loss or change in the sound of Ayu that may repeat the drastic change Rainbow had in people... I think she just needs to find something to sing about that she hasn't sung about before, that really hits us again... she needs to take risks with her vocals again, and show us the screaming voice she had before, even if it's not technically the best, it showed us the emotion behind what she was singing...

For example, I really really love still alone, and many people hate it because of the shrilling she does... but I think it shows us the emotion she had at the time, and it really strikes to me...

And I don't really want her to work with Komuro, because he's a scandal waiting to happen... -_-

[primavera♥]

Why do people act like taking a thousand yrs to make an album will result in masterpiece. It doesn't work that way.

Also real ayumi hamasaki? She's always been ayu. She just changes and grows. Now anyone can elaborate her need to be marketed as some fake product in her early career. But even if she was kinda forced to do stuff its still her

And I think some of u guys are really exaggerating on the lyrics department. Like if u hear so and so u fixate on it way too much
Ayus has written on various themes the past three albums that have been able to touch me and make me think.

I think its better that I became a fan in 2008 so that I could look at all the albums (GUILTY and earlier) at once. And not as if I grew up in these eras

Also question? Is there like super sky high standards for ayu that people don't give other artists. Like for me even a few of my least fav ayu songs still own most of the songs I've heard in jpop or music in general. But I guess I can never understand thinking certain so many songs from artist X,y,and x are soooo genius and original but ayus works are garbage
For me she's still on such a higher level than the average artist.
Like an artist who obviously releases a bunch of similar generic pop songs is okay. But if ayu releases two similar songs its an abomination?
@.@ ayu fans can be very ironic XD

Lalala~ poor ayu. Such a shame so many fans just can't enjoy her stuff as much anymore

[Catzi]

Actually, I love RAINBOW. She hasn't gone downhill for me, but there are ups and downs. I don't love everything she does, but I don't hate any of it. So far, for me, the worst period was (miss)understood, with the exception of HEAVEN. She completely bounced back with Secret though. No worries.

I kind of wish she would stop using Tetsuya Yukumi and Yuta Nakano, or at least not as much. They're really good, but come on, sample some other people! Anytime she uses Kunio Tago, I love.

[gallowsCalibrator]

Yes, Ayu will be Ayu. She's a bit of a control freak, but I can understand her wanting things to turn out well. She also said in that CNN interview, "I want to be able to say it was my fault."

It doesn't matter how long it takes to make an album or single, really--all that will have accomplished is wasting time. You guys have to understand, Ayu is so fast-paced, as most of you know She is comfortable with her pace, shouldn't that be enough for everyone? Ayu is quick, so naturally her release pattern would reflect that~ She will move very fast; that's just how she is: single, single, single, album. Bam, bam, bam. Add a tour and a-nation, and that's just Ayu~!

As for her lyrics going downhill, that's what got her where she is now! She's mainly known for her deep and touching lyrics. <3 I don't understand why people think her lyrics aren't good anymore... She writes how she feels...no one has the same feeling their entire life, right? So Ayu's lyrics are always different, and they always amaze me If you guys want to see lyrics that all sound the same, just listen to Western music (>_>) It's always the same: "Oh my gf/bf left me I'll go get drunk now" or something of that nature :/ Ayu's lyrics are deep, touching, and half the songs on GUILTY (which everyone seems to hate for some reason) make me burst into tears. Ayu's newest albums are actually some of my favorites, tbh. (m)u (my #1 fave), Secret (amazing album), GUILTY (#2 fave), and RnRC all have a spot on my Top 5 favorite albums. NL was awesome too, it was very fun and techno sounding <3

I don't think Ayu's ever gone downhill, she's just changed her style and tried new things. Funny, most people here say they like Ayu's changing style, yet they hate experimental songs: Bold & Delicious is an example of that