Ayu's music: when did it start to go downhill for you?

[Catzi]

Originally Posted by captain-kawaii123

As for her lyrics going downhill, that's what got her where she is now! She's mainly known for her deep and touching lyrics. <3

When she does have deep and touching lyrics it good, but in particular to NEXT LEVEL, those lyrics felt extremely impersonal. They were more like telling us how we should live.

[Kazeyomi]

Originally Posted by captain-kawaii123

As for her lyrics going downhill, that's what got her where she is now! She's mainly known for her deep and touching lyrics. <3 I don't understand why people think her lyrics aren't good anymore... She writes how she feels...no one has the same feeling their entire life, right? So Ayu's lyrics are always different, and they always amaze me If you guys want to see lyrics that all sound the same, just listen to Western music (>_>) It's always the same: "Oh my gf/bf left me I'll go get drunk now" or something of that nature :/ Ayu's lyrics are deep, touching

I don't want stupid lyrics like that lol
I was just saying that most of her lyrics sounds the same lately, except for few songs. Like Microphone, one of her best lyrics since years in my opinion.
As I said, I love Ayu because her lyrics are really meaningful and deep but she keeps talking about the same things.

[primavera♥]

Originally Posted by Catzi

When she does have deep and touching lyrics it good, but in particular to NEXT LEVEL, those lyrics felt extremely impersonal. They were more like telling us how we should live.

Lol is there something wrong with that? she's not telling us to go kill people.
I love ayus lyrics like that. in a more ominous tone sometimes too

Ayu inspires me that way. As opposed to talking about herself. I personally cannot releate to memorial address for example. But her songs that are more informing I adore

@koshka: I just don't get how all her lyrics are sounding the same the past few yrs. Examples please? That vary out of more than 5-7 songs? Would be helpful
I think ayu is good at elaborating on different facets of things. Its lovely

@captain: I agree with a lot of what u say

Let's use GUILTY...the lyrics of talkin' 2 myself...some of my favs when u try to understand the deep meaning of them. Same for GUILTY and Marionette. Fated. Beautiful. MY ALL. Perfect in showing off the beauty of her lyrics. Untitled was so sad lyrically focusing more on depth
I don't understand when people say guilty is completely uninspired as to me it contains some of her most powerful messages

And NL? I could go one about rollin' XD anyhow I just want my examples of similar lyrics

[Yumsushi]

Originally Posted by StrawbariSnowAyumi

Also question? Is there like super sky high standards for ayu that people don't give other artists. Like for me even a few of my least fav ayu songs still own most of the songs I've heard in jpop or music in general. But I guess I can never understand thinking certain so many songs from artist X,y,and x are soooo genius and original but ayus works are garbage
For me she's still on such a higher level than the average artist.
Like an artist who obviously releases a bunch of similar generic pop songs is okay. But if ayu releases two similar songs its an abomination?
@.@ ayu fans can be very ironic XD

Lalala~ poor ayu. Such a shame so many fans just can't enjoy her stuff as much anymore

The standards that most of the commentators are referring to are ones that Ayumi set herself for herself. I didn't read anything unreasonable in anybody's comments and no one said that its ok for other artists to release generic crap and not for Ayumi. But obviously since Ayumi started out on such a high note fans will expect more from her. How is that ironic?

[Lady~Deviance]

Originally Posted by hsienko

I think what people forget is that A LOT of people hated RAINBOW when it first came out. I, personally, wasn't a fan of her yet but I knew a lot of people who were and stopped being a fan because of this album.

I could never fathom why so many individuals held such disdain for that album. Oh well. You certainly can't win them all.

Originally Posted by Picaflor 7/4

I'd say Secret. That imo was her last best album (as a whole). I love some tracks here and there on post-secret albums, but none of them really work, for me. I feel like if she took the time to start composing, and arranging, and not release an album every year, she'd have many more masterpieces. Sometimes it seems as though she's releasing an album every year just to keep that title of being able to say that. She needs to slow it down, from the very first album, she's needed to slow it down.

I can reason with what you are saying and trust me I feel the same way. After some time, I've come to the realization that in Ayu's case "slow and steady wins the race" does not comply with her agenda. This formula might work for Hikaru Utada or for example, but for Ayu I guess not. Avex probably figured out she's stuck her feet in the water too long to take them out now. I always thought the fact that she is incessantly releasing albums was going to hurt her career in the long run. I only say this because fans expect so much from her with every album she releases. And when an album does not meet their standards they promptly demand her to re-evaluate her career. Case in point, her 9th album Guilty. I've never heard or seen fans bash an album so maliciously in my life.

Many have stated that fans have been given so much from her over the years and because of that certain followers have now become almost immune or uninspired by her music. I'm sure others on this forum including myself can attest to bearing such feelings. I cannot even recall the number of times I've heard former fans of hers on other blogs and forums complain and bash her because they just grew tired of her 'same old song and dance' if you will. And a majority of them claim these feelings spawned after the release of Rainbow or My Story. Mind you some of these folks are former die hard fans of hers.

I've always believed that scarcity would build up your image over supersaturation, but in Ayu's case however... I'm not so sure.

[ストロボ・EdGE]

I got exhausted reading this discussion.

[Lady~Deviance]

Originally Posted by ストロボ・EdGE

I got exhausted reading this discussion.

^ you and me both hun.

[primavera♥]

Originally Posted by Yumsushi

The standards that most of the commentators are referring to are ones that Ayumi set herself for herself. I didn't read anything unreasonable in anybody's comments and no one said that its ok for other artists to release generic crap and not for Ayumi. But obviously since Ayumi started out on such a high note fans will expect more from her. How is that ironic?

Okay I get it. High ayu standards. What I'm asking is something to difficult to explain apparently
I'm barely referring to what I'm only reading on this particular thread...the comments on ayus originality yes and many say this is why her music is not as enjoyable. However I've been here long enough, lurked enough artist threads, visited a few other forums like jpm for example and realize certain people do seem to act like some of the artists they listen to are on this high standard and never complain about originality and taking risks
Its ironic to a person of my tastes to see fans of those artists and groups complaining that ayu doesn't do certain things when I see what they're into and wonder...quite a bit....
I assume ayu just has ayu world. And if its not as good as other stuff in ayu world it doesn't compare to other artists I suppose
:3 it would help if I could list particular artists but that's not a good idea and I'm sure someone will not be too appreciative
Many ayu fans can really dislike certain facets of one song. Boring lyrics. Repetitive. Uninspiring. No effort. Rushed. Typical
g. And then I look at their new fav song lol ah~ u sure that's really what's wrong with it
But all in all its just my super picky taste against many peoples ability to tolerate the more generic

Its simply the fact that fans of other artists are perfectly fine with listening to bunches of generic music but when it comes to ayu its just all in bad taste, even though u could barely call the majority of her songs nearly as unorginal (but somehow the definitions for what is original and etc always change for ayu)



I still don't feel I did a good job at explaining myself. Do u understand me? I barely understand myself ugh. Why do I talk like I have an IQ of 2.
Ugh~

A little edit (hopefully no one writes anything yet): ayus not the only artist with fans who do this as there's a few other artists with mega-standards too. There's nothing wrong with doing that for any artists. Its just interesting to see how some fans operate when u get them around another artist. Like completely different fans. I think it would make more sense if some didn't say ayu was getting generic and just admit they don't like it as it is as it looks so hypocritical to see what else is "not really generic")

[kagami]

I think some people are forgetting that Ayu is not a musician. She never has been and I don't think it was ever her intention to make songs that are amazing and something new all the time. I actually recall her saying in some interview that she would never make a song like that just for the sake of it...And about her getting new composers, why? The compsers/arrangers she has right now aren't just there because they are her friends, they are there because they make the kind of music Ayu likes to sing. They became her friends BECAUSE of that.
I do agree that there was more raw energy in some of her older songs, but she had just as many generic songs back in the day as she has now.

I think part of what has happened is that her music has become clearer musically; her sad songs are sad, happy songs happy, angry songs angry etc. Where as in the past they were more all over the place, as if she didn't know exactly what she was feeling. That actually shows personal growth to me; she knows what she is feeling and can deal with.
About her lyrics, I think some of my all time favourites have come out of her recent songs- talkin'2 myself and rollin' particularly stick out to me. They hit me so hard when I first read them...Even now they wow me, they are just so spot on. count down has amazing and very personal lyrics as well. And RED LINE are probably some of her best ever. Simple, beautiful and full of power. I don't care that she writes about the same themes, those are the things she connects with, that represent her. I'd rather that than her just writing abunch of nonsense just for varieties sake.

God, too many words. No one's gonna read this

I have to say that I'm happy the way this thread is going, with a few execptions it's mostly been mature discussion when threads like this have so often turned into insult fests in the past.

[primavera♥]

Originally Posted by kagami

I think some people are forgetting that Ayu is not a musician. She never has been and I don't think it was ever her intention to make songs that are amazing and something new all the time. I actually recall her saying in some interview that she would never make a song like that just for the sake of it...And about her getting new composers, why? The compsers/arrangers she has right now aren't just there because they are her friends, they are there because they make the kind of music Ayu likes to sing. They became her friends BECAUSE of that.
I do agree that there was more raw energy in some of her older songs, but she had just as many generic songs back in the day than she has now.

I think part of what has happened is that her music has become clearer musically; her sad songs are sad, happy songs happy, angry songs angry etc. Where as in the past they were more all over the place, as if she didn't know exactly what she was feeling. That actually shows personally growth to me, she knows what she is feeling and can deal with.
About her lyrics, I think some of my all time favourites have come out of her recent songst talkin'2 myself and rollin' particularly stick out to me. They hit me so hard when I first read them...Even now they wow me, they are just so spot on. count down has amazing and very personal lyrics as well. And RED LINE are probably some of her best ever. Simple, beautiful and full of power. I don't care that she writes about the same themes, those are the things she connects with, that represent her. I'd rather that than her just writing abunch of nonsense just for varieties sake.

God, too many words. No one's gonna read this

I have to say that I'm happy the way this thread is going, with a few execptions it's mostly been mature discussion when threads like this have so often turned into insult fests in the past.

I agree with all of this. Its perfect too many words? Nah. Its perfect
^___~ I don't evem have to elaborate on what I agree with for the sake of not sounding redundant

(And yeah the thread is progressing maturely. Hopefully I'm not one of those exceptions ^^'

[kagami]

^ Not at all . I think you've been very eloquent in expressing you're thoughts and I agree with them in full.

On a vaguely related note: I just listened to meaning of Love piano version and it's sooo much better than the original! It's not as sweet and pretty sounding and the emotion really comes through in her voice, which was mostly lost with the original arrangnement. The piano is absoloutely gorgeous too. I actually got goosebumps haha.

Funny story that I think kinda relates?

My mom saw the lyrics to For my dear... and thought they were sad and like Ayu was talking about wanting to die... Well anywho, I thought back to this thread about you guys saying she should go back to a depression to release good songs. (I understand you were being sarcastic) Well, I was just thinking I never thought about any of her songs that way, like she was depressed. With the exception of POWDER SNOW. Hm...

That was a sidenote, but it got me thinking, that I like Ayu's lyrics better back then. Because I think it's hard to understand what she's really thinking. You can turn those lyrics into anything you want to. Or at least I think so. What I'm saying is, you can relate them to anything or any one of your own feelings or experiences. I don't get that... "vibe" with her newer lyrics.

That's how I feel... so maybe people feel like that too?

That's not really my main thing though. My reason for liking her older songs is that I thought they stuck out more musically. Her last song to stick out to me was Mirrorcle World. I mean by having a memorable melody.

There's nothing wrong with any of that. You can feel her lyrics, songs, melodies, music, etc were better then or now. What I can't stand is when people think someone else's opinion is wrong and starts mocking it. I'm not saying I want Ayu to "go back into a depression". Those are just the lyrics I relate more to. I would still call myself a fan even if I listen to her older works more or only them.

You guys are saying Ayu keeps growing, well she is. So she'll grow out of what she's doing now too. She'll always be changing because she's a person. Maybe one day you won't like her new things, and you'll listen to what was released in 2010 more. Who knows? It's all preference, so I don't think anybody's opinion on what was her best work matters. It's all different.

Well, it took me all of that to get to that one point. It's... if you think her music has gone downhill, then it has for you. Nobody should tell you you're wrong and vice versa.

[primavera♥]

@kagami: its weird but I prefer that version too. I usually don't. Its just perfectt in that simpler way

@xlitaxI think this thread has been well off for the most part because most of us understand that point and that there's no making someone dislike something or making someone like something else
...And I understand what ur saying about her lyrics...although I feel like after observing them too much a lot of her messages have become clear. But as kagami said I think she's improved in the fact that she can get her point across more clearly. And I don't mind that. Less work for me to do. Same emotional impact in different ways.

[Zeke.]

The point isn't to trash Ayu and say that she is stupid and blah blah blah. I mean, for many she just isn't putting out as much good material.

[emi♡]

so like, I'm not really gonna read everything or reply to everyone...cause...all this stuff has been hashed to death...

I'm just gonna say Secret, because that's when I feel she first started to develop this...formula, style whatever, that defines the way she makes music now...Although, I have come to believe that a lot of it has to do with the people around her...and the fact that, she loves to keep her people around for far too long a time, and no, I'm not just talking about Kazu.

In any case, I have also come to believe, after much convincing from someone else, that her music started losing it's complexity in its technical aspects around MY STORY...but I personally like that style, and I think she had a nice balance for (miss) understood...perhaps the best balance...so I'm gonna say Secret.

While I like her songs now, I do miss how her older music had really interesting arrangements that were kind of unique in their time. I remember when I first heard them, I didn't know music could sound like that....and well, after all this time drifting and dabbling in different styles of music, I still haven't found anything that quite sounds just like the old Ayu, say LOVEppears-I am......which I find interesting in an industry that...well...likes to "mass produce" sounds.

I mean come on...how many morning musume sounding female groups are there out there.

[Andrenekoi]

IMO people just prefer some phases of her over others, and when they started disliking what she is doing, they say her music is getting worst as it was an universal fact, and not just a personal opinion...

I really disliked rnrc, IMO it's her worst album since My Story.... people who liked My Story and RNRC are wrong? Not really...On the same way, IMO Next Level is one of her best works to date, both in sound and lyrics... people over here seens to hate it, but I love it...

IMO the problem is that much people are not seeing her as a human being that express herself through music, but as some spiritual guide, saint or demi-goddess... Her job is not to save or inspire or whatever people, her job is to release whatever she feels like to, and touch people who have similar feelings at that time... She is not releasing those albums to her fans, or to her staff, or to all of you... she is doing it for herself, as it's made very clear every time she says how much this is the only reason why she finds her life worthy

[SunshineSlayer]

Originally Posted by Uemarasan

What I miss about Ayu is that desire to experiment, to push things, to risk failure, to lose herself in her music.

Yes, I agree with this statement. I think her most creative years musically were her first few albums, but I felt that she kept that going at least somewhat until Miss Understood. Secret has many tracks I love, but I do think things started to go downhill somewhat. These past two years though I feel have been especially bad; I think that Moon/Blossom is her weakest sounding single ever released - neither song grabs me at all. And I also feel that with the one exception of Don't Look Back, the album tracks on RNC are her most forgettable ever even though I've tried a lot to get into them.

[ストロボ・EdGE]

I'm still kind of surprised everyone has a full thesis prepared for this subject.

[emi♡]

^oh, we could write books on this subject.

[evolution7931]

Next Level, I hated all of it, GUILTY was the last album with really strong tracks, havent heard Rock n Roll Circus yet (about to DL it).. but she is still an amazing performer..

The last album that really felt AMAZING to me was Secret, (m)u was even better, MY STORY was the last one that I felt was complete in terms of theme, cover art, and music that went along with it..

I hope Ayu has another I am.. or MY STORY up her sleeve someday