What is the cure?

[channy]

Originally Posted by orbitalaspect

The fact she's gone from a hard-rock record [GUILTY] to pure electronic [NEXT LEVEL] to alt-rock [Rock'n'Roll Circus] to almost teen-pop [Love songs] to this wacky Party Queen record shows she's been experimenting a bit more than she did in her first 6 years

That's simply not true

If anything she's been using sort of themes which would later provide the follwing concert tour with matching stage designs (probably since MY STORY) but you cannot declare entire albums as certain genres.

GUILTY had maybe 3 rockish songs, the rest was pop (glitter, (don't) Leave me alone) ballad-pop (fated, Together When..., MY ALL, untitled ~for her~) and except of Mirror the other two interludes were pure pop as well.

Same for NEXT LEVEL. This was NOT an electronic album. It had 3 electro-pop songs the rest was pop, ballad-pop and rockish pop.

I don't wanna continue here, but the other albums are hardly 1 single genre either.

[Mai82Go]

I don't think Ayu should choose a genre and stick to it. I like that her songs are different from each other. I'm more disappointed in songs that sound typical-heard-it-a-1000-times before. I think it's almost impossible to have a second revival like Namie did. Namie looks so young, you almost forget her real age and that she already has a son who is a teenager. She has a more dance oriented sound and that always works better with teenagers, I guess.

I think that Ayu does what she wants. It's her career and she is at a stage in her career where she works for her core fan base. The dangerous thing is when that fan base gets disappointed all the time and breaks away. But I think most hard-core Ayu fans will always stay with her. And maybe that's enough for her.

[Andrenekoi]

@orbitalaspect
Sorry, but I can't see how her sales could fall softer... If you take a look at the sale of most popstars anywhere in the world, the sales don't drop 500k, 200k, 100k... They fall millions, they go from the very top to the very bottom, in 5 years the hottest pop act tend to be oversell by any indie band... If PQ is her very bottom, she took almost 10 years to get there... Sales decrease can't get more steady than that.

And a few things about Trends: Also, every +-10 years you have a change in the generation, Ayu's core fanbase is made mostly by people who were teenagers during the 00s, and it's normal that the newer generation negates the past one, seeking inspiration on the what was cool 2 generations ago...

So... the 90s is inspired by stuff did on the 70s, the 00s was heavily inspired by stuff did on the 80s, and right now, the 90s are being inspired by the 10s... So, no wonder Ayu (the biggest from the 00s) was on some ways a Neo-Seiko (the biggest from the 80s), and that one of the biggest jpop star from the 90s is having a comeback now in the 10s.

The 10s generation will negate a lot of stuff big during the 00s... And Ayu may be among those stuff...

[Zeke.]

I agree with most everything orbitalaspect said. Very good points. Although, my most favorite songs by Ayu began during Memorial Address (love a lot of the older songs too but...).

GUILTY may not have been full-on rock, but it had that overall feeling to it. It has been my album of choice lately and I always think "wow, this is such a well put-together album, don't see why people diss on it so much"

And the problem with NEXT LEVEL - it may not have been an electronic album, but it was MARKETED as such. The packaging and theme does not fit the content at all (somewhat, but overall the album is a mess).

Hardcore fans won't care, but trying to bring in new fans with so many different styles thrown into one album can turn them away. It's much too confusing for them.

I also agree she needs to stop relying on her fan base. That's where avex throws all their marketing into and it just doesn't work anymore. Mind you, she can make a living by catering to her core fanbase, but really, for how long can that last? Sorry to say but the fans are dropping like flies. I think that's where a lot of her "lonliness" comes from now. She loves her fans, but she is sad to see her fanbase continuing to die down and ultimately people who once loved and adored her are now losing faith in her, getting tired / bored, and moving on. That must be a terrible feeling and I'm certain it has affected her to some extent.

And Ayu has had some of the best "dance-oriented" music in the past. I mean, her earlier works were so... original! She blended together bits of so many genres and it worked. Not off-the-wall experimental like she tends to do lately though. I had always loved how versatile she was but with the changes in her voice, she is not as versatile anymore. Her strong points are hard rock, and electronic done right (NaNaNa was good minus Timmy). She can really pull those genres off but she needs to continue to dive further into them.

[RayJason]

Originally Posted by visionfactory

1) Music quality, work with real composers.

2) Promotion, PQ was not properly promoted as Uncontrolled (plus as Uncontrolled is Namie's 20th anniversary commemoration album they've spend a lot of money in things like the giant paint of Namie in Shibuya, things that they don't do for a regular album release).

I honestly agree with you! (:

1) The main problem I'm having with a few (if not half) tracks on Party Queen is the way it has been arranged and mixed. I mean like let's take the 2 awesome rock songs; Return Road and reminds me. I'm not exaggerating by the way... It always seems to me that I'm listening to a vocal track and instrumental track, and not one finalized song. I just don't feel it. In songs like; M, Because of You, talkin' 2 myself, MOON and Sparkle (and basically her whole I am... album) they sound like finalized songs; proper mixed. It's like the vocal blend with the instrumental in full harmony. I miss that on some of the Party Queen album. And also, I have a Dolby BOSE 7.1 soundsytem in the living room and when I play her I am... album they sound TERRIFIC, perfect in every way. Quality to the MAX. Sounds coming from everywhere, really doing my sound system full justice. When I play Party Queen though, that boom is nowhere to be found neither is the perfect mix feel. Even on full sound I feel like it's lacking. It's like it lacks a lot of quality and it makes me kinda disappointed. Though how beautiful you are, in fact is perfectly mixed, so is Party queen. There is that feeling that you have one finalized track, especially in how beautiful you are. Gotta give Timmy props for that (if he was responsible for the finalized product that is). edit; (Also, just a personal issue; I really wanted some of the tracks to have more kick. Like in Return Road, there is absolutely no awesome kick in the drums or something, it's way too soft. It's basically the bass leading us through. But this is like what I wrote above, just my personal view!!)

Don't get me wrong though I feel like miss. Hamasaki Ayumi's voice is superB on that album, one of the better vocals featured on her albums, ever.

2) I think if she had the same kind of promotion as Namie Amuro had (and what she continues on doing at the moment I'm writing this post) ayu would have be on her rightful 1st place ranking. The album deserved that after all.

[SunshineSlayer]

Originally Posted by Pieces_of_SEVEN

^^Yeah, promotion is DEFINITELY a big part of it. You don't think she works with "real" composers though?

I'm really not sure if promotion is really that much to blame. It's not like she had 0 promo. Could she have done more? Certainly. But so could a lot of artists. I personally here in Tokyo didn't notice a HUGE amount of difference between her promo and the promo the majority of other albums get. I just think that most people are just unconcerned with Ayumi in general and in addition to that she has lost a lot of fans along the way especially with her creative choices over the last couple of years imo.

Originally Posted by alternafan000

sorry but look at namie and kuu-chan: nobody in thE general public gives two ***** about their early careers, for kuu-chan its mostly like 2005/6 onwards wher she picked up success and namie was from her style change and all that. so it's a lot eaasier to enjoy them because, **NOT TRYING TO OFFEND**, the standards aren't that high :S

Sorry, just really disagree here. It might be somewhat true of foreign fans that in the case of Namie they don't care about her early career, but that is not true of Japanese fans. Songs like Can You Celebrate are still to this day what she is most associated with in Japan, despite the popularity of her current music as well.

Originally Posted by Andrenekoi

If there was a guide to 'how to get stellar sales again after being the best thing on your music industry', Namie's 2nd peak wouldn't be something rare... 2nd, 3rd peaks would be something common and recurrent.

Exactly. I would love if Ayu suddenly found a formula to get back into winning form again, but at the same time I'm not expecting it to happen. Namie really is the exception to the rule since off the top of my head I can't think of any other female artist in Japan that managed to have a second peak.

[hidekirby]

Originally Posted by channy

That's simply not true

If anything she's been using sort of themes which would later provide the follwing concert tour with matching stage designs (probably since MY STORY) but you cannot declare entire albums as certain genres.

GUILTY had maybe 3 rockish songs, the rest was pop (glitter, (don't) Leave me alone) ballad-pop (fated, Together When..., MY ALL, untitled ~for her~) and except of Mirror the other two interludes were pure pop as well.

Same for NEXT LEVEL. This was NOT an electronic album. It had 3 electro-pop songs the rest was pop, ballad-pop and rockish pop.

I don't wanna continue here, but the other albums are hardly 1 single genre either.

I agree with you. I really don't understand when people are saying you don't like the new stuff=you don't like when she is "experimenting", trying new things etc; when she is obviously doing the same thing all over again (and that's why I blame her and losing interest)... Like party Queen is a "conceptual album"... Seriously, it's just the same songs we've already heard a thousand times (minus ESM and The next love).

Her last albums are just a plain collection of different sounds. Her last cohesive album would be Love songs that's it.

[Andrenekoi]

Originally Posted by SunshineSlayer

Exactly. I would love if Ayu suddenly found a formula to get back into winning form again, but at the same time I'm not expecting it to happen. Namie really is the exception to the rule since off the top of my head I can't think of any other female artist in Japan that managed to have a second peak.

I do believe that much of Namie 2nd peak has to do with her post-TK career being almost a new act... Even if both have a lot of things in common, the overall feel is not of all of those being done by the same creative force... What is true considering the 90s Namie is based on the creative choices of TK and her agency, while the 00s-10s Namie is based on her own choices and tastes...

The only way Ayu could reproduce something close to that would be by giving a good amount (I mean, almost all) of her creative choices to someone else... What would also kill what makes her insteresting on the first place.

[Calico]

Originally Posted by channy

^ Yes, I feel the same way.

Like, what happened to all the uber successful singers from the past? Momoe Yamaguchi? She ended her career for her husband and her family. Akina Nakamori? She was big in the 80ies, 90ies, her last album was in 2009, nowadays she reversed to a hiatus for an unkown period of time. Seiko Matsuda, still a welcome artist for shows like Kouhaku Uta Gassen but not anywhere near as successful as in the past when she and Akina were the number ones.

So probably that's what happening with Ayu, too. Within the next few years she may lose more and more recognition and importance to younger people (new generation of teens that are 13, 14 years old) because what are the 80ies and 90ies stars mentioned above to teenagers these days? Often they don't even know them or they do know them but just by their names. Same is going to happen to Ayu.

Circle of life? :'D

(kind of OT, but just to address Seiko and Akina - Akina's popularity originally dived because of her suicide attempt, although she did reclaim some popularity in the early 90s. After she released DIVA in 2009 there were big plans starting in 2010 to start gearing up for her 30th, this year, but she contracted bed-ridding shingles and is still trying to recover. Shingles are super nasty and apparently it's put her under house arrest. Seiko on the other hand is pretty much scandal free even after her rumored involvement with the original Akina scandal. But yeah, she's not an "it" item for the newer generations. She's "mom and dad's" music, maybe even grandparents now. That also plays a lot into the psychology. 90's artists aren't quite there yet - they can still be the "cool" music of the older sisters and brothers.) lol random run on.

I honestly don't think a hiatus would help her, sales wise. As someone else said, I think people would be more likely to forget her and not care when she comes back. Artists like Namie came back with established hiatuses between works (mostly because Namie tours until she wears out) and for another example so did Utada. It's not unexpected. But Ayu has sadly put out this pattern of quick release and sometimes I think it's the only thing that keeps her in the public's eyes.

Personally, I don't care. I love PQ (talking top three albums here), and wish she could do something like that again. But obviously not everyone feels that way. Ayu is one of those super divisive artists, and something I pretty much accepted a long time ago is that even I'm not going to agree with most people about Ayu's career decisions. I do agree I'd like to see her working with different people, but I don't think going back to HAL and such are the answer. HAL had a very distinct sound that's dated to the early 00s now imo. And as much as I love it, I feel like it would be the same stagnation others talk about.

[chu-lips]

back to her MTRL BRAND and leave the waste of branded thingy...
lol...
and back to fresh make up....her recent make up is out of proportion....

[ImpactBreaker]

-hiatus would not help ayu get her sales back...for the worst, maybe it could actually finish burying her career.
-H/\L would not bring ayu sales back in any way. As much as I like H/\L, I'd bet japan has already grown tired of their songs. I'm sure ayu released some H/\L songs after memorial address and they weren't able to boost her sales in any way.
-I haven't listened to Namie's latest stuff, but if it's anything like the type of music she's been releasing the past few yearts, she's going forward in what current music (specially american) trends have been going lately, thus making her stand strong with songs that have a hip hop beat coupled with sexyness. The same goes a little bit for kuu, even though part of her major initial career boost after butterfly was the amrketing idea of the weekly 12 singles, but after that she was able to carry on with the trends and sexyness. I was listening to the radio in my car a couple of days ago, and then decided to put Party Queen and JAPONESQUE albgums to play. Even though I love PQ, none of the songs felt liuke it could be palyed in the radio stations here, while Boom Boom Boys and Slow seemed like they could adapt well with the current type of music that has been played on the stations.
-ayu, on the other hand, as much as people say she's changed and released albums in very different styles (which I disagree, sort of), she has still be sticking to plain jpop. I don't think she's been doing major leaps towards something different on her carrer. Her songs are still about facing troubles with acceptance and love, she still makes a couple of ballads, summer pop and pop/rock songs, and they aren't really all that immensely different. I would risk saying NaNaNa, BRILLANTE and the jazzy songs are a little bit different from what she usually relkeases, but that's it. I love what she's been releasing, but I guess they just aren't anything that would suddenly boost japanese public interest unless she truly is able to make something that matches current music and nail it well, but she hasn't been trying that, and I really don't give a damn for her to do it either, atm.

[Rurutia]

quality of her music is declining. and i'm gonna say it, her new pvs SUCK!! i reaally don't like Timmy.

[sugarbasil]

I personally (most people probably don't agree with me) think that a lot of it has to do with her CD covers, posters, PVs, magazine shoots, etc. I'm not saying that's all of it, but seriously, compared to Kuu, Namie, and other artists, Ayu's covers etc. are so...blah.

I mean, I look at JAPONESQUE and I'm blown away. The PVs, the covers, the photoshoots...EVERYTHING is artistically AMAZING. Then you have things like the 'You were...,' 'L,' and 'A SUMMER BEST' covers and I wonder WTF is Ayu thinking?? Almost all of the PVs from Love Songs were boring as all ****. She has been consistently boring in all of her non-music related media since GUILTY, in my personal opinion. Meanwhile, Namie and Kuu are off making gorgeous things!

IDK that's just how I feel. One of the reasons I got into Ayu in the first place was because I loved her PVs, covers, and photoshoots. It's also the biggest reason why I don't follow her much anymore. Constant disappointments in that area.

[Delicious n Bold]

CREA, HAL, and DAI.
In an age of music so complicated and all over the place, CREA's simplicity is much needed.

[Zeke.]

Originally Posted by sugarbasil

I personally (most people probably don't agree with me) think that a lot of it has to do with her CD covers, posters, PVs, magazine shoots, etc. I'm not saying that's all of it, but seriously, compared to Kuu, Namie, and other artists, Ayu's covers etc. are so...blah.

I mean, I look at JAPONESQUE and I'm blown away. The PVs, the covers, the photoshoots...EVERYTHING is artistically AMAZING. Then you have things like the 'You were...,' 'L,' and 'A SUMMER BEST' covers and I wonder WTF is Ayu thinking?? Almost all of the PVs from Love Songs were boring as all ****. She has been consistently boring in all of her non-music related media since GUILTY, in my personal opinion. Meanwhile, Namie and Kuu are off making gorgeous things!

IDK that's just how I feel. One of the reasons I got into Ayu in the first place was because I loved her PVs, covers, and photoshoots. It's also the biggest reason why I don't follow her much anymore. Constant disappointments in that area.

It doesn't get much more gorgeous than this:

Spoiler:

Probably the last REAL GREAT covers she's had. I had it on my desktop until last month for the longest time. But if you were referring to these limited edition covers:

Spoiler:

Then I agree.

You know I don't think they've actually sat down and had the conversation with Ayu "well... you know... we need to talk about... uh... you're declining sales... and... what we're going to do... about them" Before things can ever improve they need to come to terms with reality (including Ayu) and face the facts that something needs to be changed and a game-plan should be set in order. But really, I don't see anyone actually attempting to tackle that issue head, on face-to-face with Ayu. I think the last time it was lightly addressed was when Max and her had a conversation, basically laughing at all the nay-sayers who were saying Ayu was "washed ou~t" and that's when they planned fairyland. But the state of her releases/fan-base is much more critical than it was back then, so it really isn't a laughing matter this time around.

[primavera♥]

Originally Posted by sugarbasil

I personally (most people probably don't agree with me) think that a lot of it has to do with her CD covers, posters, PVs, magazine shoots, etc. I'm not saying that's all of it, but seriously, compared to Kuu, Namie, and other artists, Ayu's covers etc. are so...blah.

I mean, I look at JAPONESQUE and I'm blown away. The PVs, the covers, the photoshoots...EVERYTHING is artistically AMAZING. Then you have things like the 'You were...,' 'L,' and 'A SUMMER BEST' covers and I wonder WTF is Ayu thinking?? Almost all of the PVs from Love Songs were boring as all ****. She has been consistently boring in all of her non-music related media since GUILTY, in my personal opinion. Meanwhile, Namie and Kuu are off making gorgeous things!

IDK that's just how I feel. One of the reasons I got into Ayu in the first place was because I loved her PVs, covers, and photoshoots. It's also the biggest reason why I don't follow her much anymore. Constant disappointments in that area.

That obviously definitely has to do with you and I'm pretty sure many other fan's lack of interest in ayu.

Personally though I feel like the amount of amazing pvs and covers and photoshoots she had in the past that were beautiful/creative/interesting is kind of exagerrated by some fans. But I guess that's the ayu many people fell in love with and is the ayu people want and think will bring her back. I don't see that happening.

[SURREAL__RAINBOW]

Originally Posted by ImpactBreaker

-hiatus would not help ayu get her sales back...for the worst, maybe it could actually finish burying her career.
-H/\L would not bring ayu sales back in any way. As much as I like H/\L, I'd bet japan has already grown tired of their songs. I'm sure ayu released some H/\L songs after memorial address and they weren't able to boost her sales in any way.
-I haven't listened to Namie's latest stuff, but if it's anything like the type of music she's been releasing the past few yearts, she's going forward in what current music (specially american) trends have been going lately, thus making her stand strong with songs that have a hip hop beat coupled with sexyness. The same goes a little bit for kuu, even though part of her major initial career boost after butterfly was the amrketing idea of the weekly 12 singles, but after that she was able to carry on with the trends and sexyness. I was listening to the radio in my car a couple of days ago, and then decided to put Party Queen and JAPONESQUE albgums to play. Even though I love PQ, none of the songs felt liuke it could be palyed in the radio stations here, while Boom Boom Boys and Slow seemed like they could adapt well with the current type of music that has been played on the stations.
-ayu, on the other hand, as much as people say she's changed and released albums in very different styles (which I disagree, sort of), she has still be sticking to plain jpop. I don't think she's been doing major leaps towards something different on her carrer. Her songs are still about facing troubles with acceptance and love, she still makes a couple of ballads, summer pop and pop/rock songs, and they aren't really all that immensely different. I would risk saying NaNaNa, BRILLANTE and the jazzy songs are a little bit different from what she usually relkeases, but that's it. I love what she's been releasing, but I guess they just aren't anything that would suddenly boost japanese public interest unless she truly is able to make something that matches current music and nail it well, but she hasn't been trying that, and I really don't give a damn for her to do it either, atm.

I agree with everything you said.




I just wanna say that, if she changes her style/career drastically, it could actually be more harmful than good. She might lose many more TA fans, and if she fails to impress casual listeners and other possible new listeners/fans, it'll be the bottom for sure.

She can't just look at namie or other current successful singers and try to be like them, she'll never do this, and not just for sales even. Maybe this is what AVEX wants her to do, but instead she's still revealing against them by putting out those controversial PQ covers. Ayu does what she feels is right in her heart at the very moment, and it doesn't matter how other people want her to be, because she'll never be that. She'll always be herself, even if this means that she'll wind up selling 5k or less.

Ironically, she's everything but fake. She could look fake to many people, but we all know she isn't fake at all, she's never been fake. And we can all see this through her music, all the way since she started until now.

I think that if she ends up working hard for another sales peak it'll be sad, because she'll be doing what AVEX wants her to do and not what she really wants to do, just like it happened with A BEST. She's achieved so much, but many of those achievements were AVEX's and not hers. At least she got to release A BEST 2 how she really wanted to do it. I'm sure she's just happy performing and seeing her fans and feeling close to them, she seems so warm and kind when she meets international fans overseas.


EDIT: And she is not old, when are people going to stop saying this Just ridiculous.

[kendelle]

Promotion and a new, dance-worthy sound a'la Namie would see her getting more airplay on radio, played in clubs etc.

Nobody can dance to ballads or pop songs, but Namie's sound gives you energy and makes you want to move around. With Ayu's latest offerings, you just want to sit there and take it all in.

Oh, and better covers

[emi♡]

Originally Posted by SURREAL__RAINBOW

EDIT: And she is not old, when are people going to stop saying this Just ridiculous.

Never? Because she's only going to get older? She's old for the industry...that's not an opinion, it's a fact :/


So is Namie, but Namie has a different image than she does.


Actually, I think we're lucky she isn't selling under 100k. A lot of female solos are hurting badly right now.

[jewelbox]

If she took a hiatus maybe more people will get more interested of her comeback..?