Ayu's music: when did it start to go downhill for you?

[AyUmIXx]

Originally Posted by kagami

I think some people are forgetting that Ayu is not a musician. She never has been and I don't think it was ever her intention to make songs that are amazing and something new all the time. I actually recall her saying in some interview that she would never make a song like that just for the sake of it...And about her getting new composers, why? The compsers/arrangers she has right now aren't just there because they are her friends, they are there because they make the kind of music Ayu likes to sing. They became her friends BECAUSE of that.
I do agree that there was more raw energy in some of her older songs, but she had just as many generic songs back in the day than she has now.

I think part of what has happened is that her music has become clearer musically; her sad songs are sad, happy songs happy, angry songs angry etc. Where as in the past they were more all over the place, as if she didn't know exactly what she was feeling. That actually shows personally growth to me, she knows what she is feeling and can deal with.
About her lyrics, I think some of my all time favourites have come out of her recent songst talkin'2 myself and rollin' particularly stick out to me. They hit me so hard when I first read them...Even now they wow me, they are just so spot on. count down has amazing and very personal lyrics as well. And RED LINE are probably some of her best ever. Simple, beautiful and full of power. I don't care that she writes about the same themes, those are the things she connects with, that represent her. I'd rather that than her just writing abunch of nonsense just for varieties sake.

God, too many words. No one's gonna read this

I have to say that I'm happy the way this thread is going, with a few execptions it's mostly been mature discussion when threads like this have so often turned into insult fests in the past.

oh yes! agree with this..
what u said is just like how i feel!!

[jbrat2219]

Spoiler:

Originally Posted by StrawbariSnowAyumi

Okay I get it. High ayu standards. What I'm asking is something to difficult to explain apparently
I'm barely referring to what I'm only reading on this particular thread...the comments on ayus originality yes and many say this is why her music is not as enjoyable. However I've been here long enough, lurked enough artist threads, visited a few other forums like jpm for example and realize certain people do seem to act like some of the artists they listen to are on this high standard and never complain about originality and taking risks
Its ironic to a person of my tastes to see fans of those artists and groups complaining that ayu doesn't do certain things when I see what they're into and wonder...quite a bit....
I assume ayu just has ayu world. And if its not as good as other stuff in ayu world it doesn't compare to other artists I suppose
:3 it would help if I could list particular artists but that's not a good idea and I'm sure someone will not be too appreciative
Many ayu fans can really dislike certain facets of one song. Boring lyrics. Repetitive. Uninspiring. No effort. Rushed. Typical
g. And then I look at their new fav song lol ah~ u sure that's really what's wrong with it
But all in all its just my super picky taste against many peoples ability to tolerate the more generic

Its simply the fact that fans of other artists are perfectly fine with listening to bunches of generic music but when it comes to ayu its just all in bad taste, even though u could barely call the majority of her songs nearly as unorginal (but somehow the definitions for what is original and etc always change for ayu)



I still don't feel I did a good job at explaining myself. Do u understand me? I barely understand myself ugh. Why do I talk like I have an IQ of 2.
Ugh~

A little edit (hopefully no one writes anything yet): ayus not the only artist with fans who do this as there's a few other artists with mega-standards too. There's nothing wrong with doing that for any artists. Its just interesting to see how some fans operate when u get them around another artist. Like completely different fans. I think it would make more sense if some didn't say ayu was getting generic and just admit they don't like it as it is as it looks so hypocritical to see what else is "not really generic")

Originally Posted by kagami

I think some people are forgetting that Ayu is not a musician. She never has been and I don't think it was ever her intention to make songs that are amazing and something new all the time. I actually recall her saying in some interview that she would never make a song like that just for the sake of it...And about her getting new composers, why? The compsers/arrangers she has right now aren't just there because they are her friends, they are there because they make the kind of music Ayu likes to sing. They became her friends BECAUSE of that.
I do agree that there was more raw energy in some of her older songs, but she had just as many generic songs back in the day as she has now.

I think part of what has happened is that her music has become clearer musically; her sad songs are sad, happy songs happy, angry songs angry etc. Where as in the past they were more all over the place, as if she didn't know exactly what she was feeling. That actually shows personal growth to me; she knows what she is feeling and can deal with.
About her lyrics, I think some of my all time favourites have come out of her recent songs- talkin'2 myself and rollin' particularly stick out to me. They hit me so hard when I first read them...Even now they wow me, they are just so spot on. count down has amazing and very personal lyrics as well. And RED LINE are probably some of her best ever. Simple, beautiful and full of power. I don't care that she writes about the same themes, those are the things she connects with, that represent her. I'd rather that than her just writing abunch of nonsense just for varieties sake.

God, too many words. No one's gonna read this

I have to say that I'm happy the way this thread is going, with a few execptions it's mostly been mature discussion when threads like this have so often turned into insult fests in the past.

I agree with both of these posts.

[Mirrorcle Monster]

Ayu was involved in a drug scandal????????

[Mayayu]

Secret. more bling, less creativity... it's been 'look at Ayu' rather than 'listen to Ayu' from then on

eventhough, SLT gives me great hopes... i guess RnRC would have been an excellent album if they had had the same inspiration and boldness for the whole album. hoping they will keep it going on for next album.

[AyUmIXx]

i started being a fan since 2004..so I'm not really familiar with her old works..but i do sometimes listen to the old works, but still I'm not really interested with most of them...except the ones she sang again during the recent concert tours..I kinda like it..but not as much as with the new works..

my favorite albums ever since 2004, are MY STORY, then GUILTY and now Rock 'n' Roll Circus~ there after and before all those 3 albums are somehow, just a so-so album for me..not really spectacular but i don't hate them either..i still enjoy it
from all those 3, my most favorite is absolutely Rock 'n' Roll Circus, I've kept on listening to the album over n over again til now..then also MOON with blossom, specially blossom, i really love this song so much..it really feels nostalgic like her old works (I don't know why still got some ppl not really like it since it really has the old works-feeling but in a better music n vocal)

so in consclusion, ayu's music has not yet gown down hill..it's like up and down~

[Tasked]

I have to agree. Deep depression means strong rock and dark ballads. My favourite kind of ayumusic. But anyway Ayu never goes downhill. She has ups and downs. Ayu has SUCHH a wide variety of fans, and she has to please all of them. That means she has to make sure she produces all kinds of different music all the time. Thats why sometimes you get a single like Moon / Blossom. Which I totallly do NOT like; and sometimes get an album like RnRC, which is LOVE. She cant please everyone with all releases, you know . And after hundreds of tracks, it's difficult to top that 'one' all-time favourite that everybody has... Pure mathmetics

[Dinex_Taiwan]

(miss)understood is really the start of downhill. Due to the wrong decision(using a foreign composer), she began being lack of money to produce high quality music. This can explain why she released A BEST 2 and A COMPLETE in the following years. However, because of the decline of advertisement(partly due to the falling sales), she became taking less care of her body, causing her voice to turn out deep and rough just in a year. While she tried to sing in Rock style to solve this problem, fans' negative reaction and deaf problem even made it tougher. So I think even though she starts to hire some different or mega producer, it's still hard to produce high quality music because of her bad voice now.

[Ranma Matsuri]

Originally Posted by identity

http://ayumi.primenova.com/lyrics/mircrophone.htm
http://ayumi.primenova.com/lyrics/countdown.htm
http://ayumi.primenova.com/lyrics/sunsetloveisall.htm
http://ayumi.primenova.com/lyrics/ballad.htm
http://ayumi.primenova.com/lyrics/dontlookback.htm
http://ayumi.primenova.com/lyrics/ladydynamite.htm
http://ayumi.primenova.com/lyrics/sexylittlethings.htm
http://ayumi.primenova.com/lyrics/sunriseloveisall.htm
http://ayumi.primenova.com/lyrics/meaningoflove.htm
http://ayumi.primenova.com/lyrics/moon.htm
http://ayumi.primenova.com/lyrics/rollin.htm
http://ayumi.primenova.com/lyrics/lovenhate.htm
http://ayumi.primenova.com/lyrics/rule.htm
http://ayumi.primenova.com/lyrics/sparkle.htm
http://ayumi.primenova.com/lyrics/identity.htm

And that would be the 10%.

Originally Posted by Lady~Deviance

To fully explain or construe when Ayu's career went 'downhill' depends on a person's subjective definition of the term. I for one feel the word 'downhill' in this context refers to when her sales plummeted. But I guess I'll comply to this thread.

In regard to her music career, I find that her albums are either hits or misses. For example, I simply adore 'Rainbow' but I feel that 'My Story' is the worst album she's ever released. Adding to that, I think that 'Miss-understood was one of her best albums, but then again I utterly detest 'Secret' but I love 'Guilty' to death. 'Next Level' was interesting while 'R'n'RC' was too monotonous.

What I'm trying to illustrate is, I find there is no sufficient overall cohesion in her works. So I can't really say whether or not her career has truly reached an inferior level.

Said it a lot more eloquently then I could.

Originally Posted by maikaru

But I disagree about needing new composers. What about the artists who compose everything themselves? It's the same kind of concept... she doesn't need new composers, because new composers will mean a loss or change in the sound of Ayu that may repeat the drastic change Rainbow had in people... I think she just needs to find something to sing about that she hasn't sung about before, that really hits us again... she needs to take risks with her vocals again, and show us the screaming voice she had before, even if it's not technically the best, it showed us the emotion behind what she was singing...

Same, same. In all honesty, the only composer Ayu needs is herself as just over the course of 4 albums, she's put out a array of compositions. Each one was fresh, had it's own identity and you'd never mistake one song for another. She's proof of how versatile one individual can be without losing their identity. A new team isn't the answer here but just some new inspiration. She seems stuck in a formula, her own. It's been there since the early days but now it's grown into something more obvious and restricting on her albums and releases. Happy summer song, sad winter ballad, angry rock song, girl power song...

When I look back on her single choices (excluding Mirrorcle World as it didn't end up on an album) in all honesty there hasn't been a interesting release schedule since m(u). Rule/Sparkle switched things up but it felt like an oddity after Days/GREEN.

Originally Posted by captain-kawaii123

It doesn't matter how long it takes to make an album or single, really--all that will have accomplished is wasting time. You guys have to understand, Ayu is so fast-paced, as most of you know She is comfortable with her pace, shouldn't that be enough for everyone? Ayu is quick, so naturally her release pattern would reflect that~ She will move very fast; that's just how she is: single, single, single, album. Bam, bam, bam. Add a tour and a-nation, and that's just Ayu~!

Totally agree. Her best works (imo of course) were put out at even rapid succession then the ones now. Time is not the enemy here.

Originally Posted by xLitax

That was a sidenote, but it got me thinking, that I like Ayu's lyrics better back then. Because I think it's hard to understand what she's really thinking. You can turn those lyrics into anything you want to. Or at least I think so. What I'm saying is, you can relate them to anything or any one of your own feelings or experiences. I don't get that... "vibe" with her newer lyrics.

That's how I feel... so maybe people feel like that too?

That's not really my main thing though. My reason for liking her older songs is that I thought they stuck out more musically. Her last song to stick out to me was Mirrorcle World. I mean by having a memorable melody.

There's nothing wrong with any of that. You can feel her lyrics, songs, melodies, music, etc were better then or now. What I can't stand is when people think someone else's opinion is wrong and starts mocking it. I'm not saying I want Ayu to "go back into a depression". Those are just the lyrics I relate more to. I would still call myself a fan even if I listen to her older works more or only them.

You guys are saying Ayu keeps growing, well she is. So she'll grow out of what she's doing now too. She'll always be changing because she's a person. Maybe one day you won't like her new things, and you'll listen to what was released in 2010 more. Who knows? It's all preference, so I don't think anybody's opinion on what was her best work matters. It's all different.

Well, it took me all of that to get to that one point. It's... if you think her music has gone downhill, then it has for you. Nobody should tell you you're wrong and vice versa.

Agree with all of this and then more.

Originally Posted by Lady~Deviance

I could never fathom why so many individuals held such disdain for that album. Oh well. You certainly can't win them all.

ikr? I LOVE it to pieces.

Originally Posted by ストロボ・EdGE

I got exhausted reading this discussion.

Reading it? Try reading it then quoting and replying to the posts you wanted to comment on, lol.

[Uemarasan]

Thank you for all your contributions to the discussion! Even though I don't reply to everyone who posted, be assured that I've read every post

Originally Posted by ストロボ・EdGE

I got exhausted reading this discussion.

Well, I'm just glad there are people in this day and age that actually read something more than 150 characters

Originally Posted by ストロボ・EdGE

I'm still kind of surprised everyone has a full thesis prepared for this subject.

When you've lived with and loved Ayu for so long, you'll definitely have something more to say than "Guilty. Lovez it." or "Next Level suxxor". And frankly, I'd rather read long intelligent posts rather than short, abrupt sentences lacking in thought and depth. Please don't belittle other people's efforts

[Uemarasan]

Originally Posted by SunshineSlayer

Yes, I agree with this statement. I think her most creative years musically were her first few albums, but I felt that she kept that going at least somewhat until Miss Understood. Secret has many tracks I love, but I do think things started to go downhill somewhat. These past two years though I feel have been especially bad; I think that Moon/Blossom is her weakest sounding single ever released - neither song grabs me at all. And I also feel that with the one exception of Don't Look Back, the album tracks on RNC are her most forgettable ever even though I've tried a lot to get into them.

Always glad to hear you chime in, SunshineSlayer Yes, Secret seems to me the blueprint for all the albums that have followed since then. I actually thought she would settle into the style of My Story, seeing that it was, for me, her most assured and complete-sounding album. But then came miss(understood) which showed that she still had that desire to explore new territory. But afterwards I noticed the overwhelming influence Secret had on her subsequent releases, particularly in how the albums are shaped.

[Delirium-Zer0]

I don't think there was inherently wrong with how Secret was "shaped" - honestly, about half the album needed polishing, but I think working with a deadline had Ayu streamlining her writing process, forcing her to be honest. She unfortunately didn't have the time to get creative and buff the edges. I think she's figured out how to do that in the albums since, culminating in "Rock'n'Roll Circus." I think she's actually tried to learn from experience from the last few albums, and each album since then has been a more complete-sounding version of the one before it in alot of ways. Whether or not that's been a good thing is up to the listener, but it's certainly an entirely different approach from her first few albums.

I genuinely believe that a creative person really only has so much creative energy in them. If you have enough new ideas and momentum to remain interesting for more than about three albums, you're made of magic. Ayu at least lasted four, depending on who you ask. I do think she made it to number four before starting to settle into an "ayu sound," and while she does experiment every now & then, she just doesn't have that much in her anymore, and with every single STILL being number one, she doesn't have a whole lot of drive or reason to change her formula. Even if she did, it would probably come across as too forced. What she's doing now, doing something different only occasionally and when she's moved to do so, results in alot of her material being only decent (by Ayu standards anyway) and only a few songs being amazing. If she waited until she had an album's worth of "amazing", we'd only get an album every 5 years or so.

Again, YMMV, but I don't really mind THAT much the way things are going.

[primavera♥]

@ranma matsuri: in regards to identitys post, that's a quite a bit more than 10%. 14 of those are from the past 2 albums. Which are about 22 total songs if I recall. 22-14 is 8 and tbh I can add more lyrics to lessen that amount and in honesty that is not 10%. more than half
10% of the lyrics in her whole career would be more ballpark

In summary, a lot of u guys are really exaggerating on the point of most of her lyrics sounding similar and I question if u just don't take the time to even interpret her messages
*sighs* if the lyrics on rnrc, NL, and etc are the same then I can easily go and find similar lyrics in her old albums.

Mmm...this. May be my shortest post in this thread miraculous

[Uemarasan]

Originally Posted by Andrenekoi

IMO the problem is that much people are not seeing her as a human being that express herself through music, but as some spiritual guide, saint or demi-goddess...

I have yet to read a post in this thread that suggests anyone here sees Ayu as some kind of spiritual guide or goddess. Anyway, I don't see how that's a bad thing in the first place, so long as it is done with self-awareness. For some people, Ayu is much more than someone who is simply putting out music. Her music obviously reaches far deeper than that, and I wouldn't fault anyone for being true to their own personal, unique experience with Ayu. If they feel that her music has in a way saved them or inspired them on how to live, then good for them.

[Uemarasan]

Delirium Zero, I didn't say that there was anything wrong with how Secret came together. In fact, it's the last Ayu album that I felt still had strong creative energy. What I meant was that it was the album that seemed to lay down the rules for all that came after. All of the albums since then are divided into three parts: the first half of the album presents an idea or tone (in Secret, it's a sense of hesitation, in Guilty, it's despair, in Next Level, it's energy), then a turning point, a moment of clarity, a catharsis (Jewel, Marionette, Green), then finally a resolution, a reconfiguring, enlightenment. That's basically my problem when I bring up how the albums are "shaped": that Ayu has stayed with this structure all throughout. There is no surprise.

[love in music]

Originally Posted by StrawbariSnowAyumi

@ranma matsuri: in regards to identitys post, that's a quite a bit more than 10%. 14 of those are from the past 2 albums. Which are about 22 total songs if I recall. 22-14 is 8 and tbh I can add more lyrics to lessen that amount and in honesty that is not 10%. more than half
10% of the lyrics in her whole career would be more ballpark

In summary, a lot of u guys are really exaggerating on the point of most of her lyrics sounding similar and I question if u just don't take the time to even interpret her messages
*sighs* if the lyrics on rnrc, NL, and etc are the same then I can easily go and find similar lyrics in her old albums.

Mmm...this. May be my shortest post in this thread miraculous

Yeah, I didn't get that 10% comment either lol. I agree with you, I could post some more from those albums. It's just like.. she maybe releases 1 or 2 songs a year that will have some similar phrase in it, it really is not the majority of her music. Also, the thing with her repeating some of the same things every now and then is that she repeats the GOOD stuff, the inspiring stuff.. not just a bunch of useless stuff that has no meaning, so it really doesn't bug me all too much.

[Andrenekoi]

^Every artist has their main themes, and those themes are going to be repeated over and over again... It's not lack of creativity, just themes that are important to those artists

[Andrenekoi]

Originally Posted by Uemarasan

I have yet to read a post in this thread that suggests anyone here sees Ayu as some kind of spiritual guide or goddess. Anyway, I don't see how that's a bad thing in the first place, so long as it is done with self-awareness. For some people, Ayu is much more than someone who is simply putting out music. Her music obviously reaches far deeper than that, and I wouldn't fault anyone for being true to their own personal, unique experience with Ayu. If they feel that her music has in a way saved them or inspired them on how to live, then good for them.

Does this make her duty to inspire people and touch them on personal level everytime she releases a song? Not really

[Calico]

Originally Posted by ストロボ・EdGE

I'm still kind of surprised everyone has a full thesis prepared for this subject.

Oye, you should read the actual thesis I wrote on this subject...and the reason why I just can't bring myself to say more than 2 sentences in this thread.

tbh I'm amazed people are staying as civil as they are.

[emi♡]

@Andrenakoi: Of course not. But you have to see the frustration of people who, expected all that out of her, and then...feel they don't get it.

And then they should come to realise just what exactly their relationship was with Ayu, and maybe they won't expect so much.

I think this is one of the reasons why Ayu and her music is so special. She has had the ability to reach all of these different people, and all of them have a different relationship with her and her music.

It's an interesting thing to think about, considering that everyone here hates when anyone refers to Ayu as a god lol

I think that, the more someone understands their relationship with Ayu and her music, and how it affects them and who they are, the more they will steer away from "oh this is going downhill" or "this sucks" or even "this is totally great"...then...it won't matter so much anymore.

Although I do think it's nice to be able to discuss the technical aspects of songs and albums and how their relationship to Ayu and the work she's creating...it's not particularly easy, because even there, there are so many opinions.

but whatever. Continue

[Uemarasan]

Originally Posted by Andrenekoi

Does this make her duty to inspire people and touch them on personal level everytime she releases a song? Not really

I don't think anyone on this thread said so. It's certainly not her responsibility, but people can't help it if she doesn't meet their expectations of her. Sometimes they negotiate, sometimes they don't.

Edit: Sorry, emiko posted the same time as I did. And she said it much more eloquently.